newbie needs tow advice

cxccheermom5 · 06-12-2013, 02:05 PM

Hello newbie to this site. We're looking to upgrade from our hybrid. It has water damage and with 5 kids don't have the time to try and repair. We're looking at the grey Wolf's and found a 26 dbh that's OK but love the 29 dsfb. Towing with 2007 Tahoe rated 7700 lbs. Yellow sticker on TT I think is around 7200-7300. Dry is 6683. We generally camp within 25 minute drive from our house in Ohio so no major towing. Dealer agrees it is doable but pushing it. I've seen a couple posts on here with someone with same set up. 5 kids but generally only 3 younger go with us under 200 lbs for them. Not a heavy packer either no real extras no bikes grills. No water filled. Food shop when we get to spot. Really only add basic pots pans blankets clothes and a few board games. Doable????

TURBS · 06-12-2013, 02:22 PM

Just even glancing at your numbers I can say your in trouble with that combo.

The numbers you really need are.

Cargo carrying capacity of tahoe
Rawr of tahoe
Tounge weight of tt

The dry weight means "nothing"
As that's the weight of trailer as it leaves factory.
From there dealer adds items such as propane and tanks , battery and other things.

Plus you add everything to go camping.

plus 5 kids and you and spouse fire wood coolers bikes etc etc .
That dry weight will defiantly exceed more than 1000 lbs with a family your size.

Bigger truck or smaller camper.

Turbs

ng2951 · 06-12-2013, 02:29 PM

Yeah you will probably have several problems. Somebody will chime in the formula but I suspect with 5 kids even if you are within the towing capacity of your vehicle you will likely exceed the gross combined weight rating (GCWR).

That value will be in your vehicle's owners manual.

Here's a decent write up and explanation on what you need to consider:

Jayco/Trailer Life Tow Guide

TURBS · 06-12-2013, 02:30 PM

Btw your ccc can be found on your door jamb or door on truck.

Normally listed with tire info.

jeeplj8 · 06-12-2013, 02:39 PM

that is an awful long trailer for a short wheelbase Tahoe. Having owned a Tahoe in the past, I recall that the trailer tow number was pure fantasy. I was out of CCC before I hooked up a trailer.

TURBS · 06-12-2013, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeeplj8

that is an awful long trailer for a short wheelbase Tahoe. Having owned a Tahoe in the past, I recall that the trailer tow number was pure fantasy. I was out of CCC before I hooked up a trailer.

Right !

**ependydad** · 06-12-2013, 02:59 PM

My sister is in the exact same situation as you. She owns a minivan, boyfriend owns an older (and a bit beat up) Dodge 1500 and combined, they have 5 kids from 9-17 AND a pitbull/mastiff/mutt of a dog (he's a big boy).

IMO, with passengers alone in either vehicle- they were going to be at their maximum carrying capacity long before they added the camper. She figured their best bet was a seasonal site; second best was actually storing the camper at the RV park and then the only time it's towed is from the storage lot on-site to their actual campsite.

My in-laws want to get into RVing and would like their own space vs. staying with us. So as we shopped the RV shows, so did they. My FIL and I talked a lot about dry weights, yellow sticker weights (I literally looked at almost every yellow sticker) and actual loaded weights. First, good for you for looking at the yellow sticker vs. the dry weight. As you found, it's already a fair amount higher than the advertised dry weight.

His question, for me, was that he already had a vehicle and uses it as a traveling trainer for work. He didn't want to upgrade so he asked, "What is the biggest trailer I can tow?" (implying that he wanted to stay within ratings and not just hookup anything and go) Doing the math, his 4Runner only had about 950 pounds of carrying capacity. In order for him to tow the full advertised weight of 7,000 pounds - he had to:
a) lose about 70 pounds
and b) put nothing else in the SUV with him (including my dear mother-in-law!)

The problem is, that 950 pounds is quickly diminished down to what's leftover for tongue weight. Tongue weight is typically 10%-15% of a trailers actual loaded weight.

I wrote some emails to him and published them on my blog:
What can I tow? My FIL's actual example
and
What can I tow? A general page

You'll likely not be happy with the answer- especially with a family of 5 kids.

Doering · 06-12-2013, 03:06 PM

If you want to pull a trailer with that Tahoe rated at 7700lbs you should target a trailer with a dry weight under 6000lbs. That will allow you 300-400lbs of cargo in the trailer and keep you around 85% of your max tow. But you have to check your Tahoe's payload capacity and work this into the equation. Even with a dry 6000lb trailer you are going to be travelling heavy and working the Tahoe hard. Don't get discouraged. You just need to look at more trailers between 5000-6000lbs. You will find one that you like if you are patient. When the numbers work out in the safe zone, you will feel a lot better when towing.

PS If the dealer says it is doable but pushing it - that is a bad sign!

**ependydad** · 06-12-2013, 03:18 PM

Doering, in this situation with 3-5 kids going, I still am concerned about running out of payload capacity for a 6,000 dry camper (which will likely be at least 7,000 pounds when wet).

**ependydad** · 06-12-2013, 03:21 PM

But, I'm very much on the side of staying within all ratings. If you know trucks and are an experienced tower-er, then you can make an educated decision about exceeding certain ones and choosing which you don't want to exceed.

jeeplj8 · 06-12-2013, 03:25 PM

I had an 03 Tahoe with the highest towing and payload configuration possible. With my Jeep on a flatbed heading for the trails at 4600 pounds I was about 300 pounds over the cargo capacity of the Tahoe with family and gear on board.

Doering · 06-12-2013, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ependydad

Doering, in this situation with 3-5 kids going, I still am concerned about running out of payload capacity for a 6,000 dry camper (which will likely be at least 7,000 pounds when wet).

Yes, totally agree. Depending on the age (weight) of the kids, payload may be the kicker when including the tongue weight. He is perhaps maxed out now with his hybrid trailer carrying the entire family. That's why I also made reference to the payload capability of the Tahoe.

cxccheermom5 · 06-12-2013, 03:52 PM

Not all 5 kids go only 3 younger ones 1 at 20 lbs 1 at 45 lbs and 1 at 70 lbs. The total gross on Tahoe is 14000 lbs 1000 tongue weight. Nothing else in vehicle except car seat my purse and diaper bag. Camper would have blankets pillows clothes kitchenware to cook. Absolutely no wood water bikes toys or even grocerys. We buy food where we camp which is 25 minute drive from our house. Im not a packer at all like just the basics so not concerned as we really have no gear we'd pack sometimes I do bring 2 camping fold chairs but that's it. Oh the kids do bring a couple card games and a few movies. Road we take to campground is 45-50 mph no highways.

TURBS · 06-12-2013, 03:57 PM

Dishes pots pans
Tools
Add 40 lbs for water heater full of water
Add 80 lbs for propane
Bathroom supplies
Battery 60 lbs
Trailer blocking
Trailer hitch
Sway bars

**ependydad** · 06-12-2013, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cxccheermom5

Not all 5 kids go only 3 younger ones 1 at 20 lbs 1 at 45 lbs and 1 at 70 lbs. The total gross on Tahoe is 14000 lbs 1000 tongue weight. Nothing else in vehicle except car seat my purse and diaper bag. Camper would have blankets pillows clothes kitchenware to cook. Absolutely no wood water bikes toys or even grocerys. We buy food where we camp which is 25 minute drive from our house. Im not a packer at all like just the basics so not concerned as we really have no gear we'd pack sometimes I do bring 2 camping fold chairs but that's it. Oh the kids do bring a couple card games and a few movies. Road we take to campground is 45-50 mph no highways.

The "total gross" (aka gross combined weight rating or GCWR) is rarely the issue. There's a different number called the "gross vehicle weight rating" (GVWR) that you will max out long before you ever hit the GCWR due to the amount of people, stuff and tongue weight on the vehicle.

Do you have any stickers on your door jamb that look like any of the following?

or, it may look like this:

As well, do you also have one that looks like this:

The numbers from those stickers that we're interested in are:
a) "the combined weight of passengers and cargo should never exceed X lbs"
b) the "GVWR"
c) the rear "GAWR" (gross axle weight rating)

Are you up to the idea of taking your 3 kids and going to a weigh-scale to get an idea of what your real payload is? It's quick and easy and only costs $10. There are CAT scales all over or you can hit a quarry, dump or somewhere else that can give you the following 2 weights:
1) front axle weight
2) rear axle weight
(and added together gives you your actual truck weight)

cxccheermom5 · 06-12-2013, 04:16 PM

What tools??? Seriously when I say we have no extras Im not playing. The only tool we bring is the can opener. No water. We usually fill 1 propane tank other stays home. No bathroom supplies as we don't like to use dump station. Battery yes. Hitch sway yes. I'm not as concerned with what we pack since we seriously only bring bare necessities. Our current camper seriously only has a few blankets 2 pots 1 griddle paper plates and silverware. Not even paper towels. But even with packing light I'm still thinking book just too close but I've read several people tow the same no issues which makes me curious

**ependydad** · 06-12-2013, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cxccheermom5

But even with packing light I'm still thinking book just too close but I've read several people tow the same no issues which makes me curious

Lots of people to over their ratings - some intentionally, some without knowing better; some get away with it, others have white knuckle experiences (anaro on this forum).

My personal philosophy is to tow within my ratings. If I can't, then I'd greatly consider a seasonal site and/or storage at the campground where I'm way less concerned about ratings.

cxccheermom5 · 06-12-2013, 04:20 PM

Yikes GWR is 7300 that doesn't sound good ...

TURBS · 06-12-2013, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cxccheermom5

Yikes GWR is 7300 that doesn't sound good ...

Are u seeing the light yet lol

I bet that camper is 8000 lbs ready to camp as u describe.

**ependydad** · 06-12-2013, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cxccheermom5

Yikes GWR is 7300 that doesn't sound good ...

It all depends on what your truck actually weighs. *Hypothetically* - it could be 5,000 pounds and you guys are only bringing it up to 5,500.

Getting weighed is your absolutely best bet - it lets you make an educated decision vs. a bunch of us on forums guessing.

Everything in the vehicle matters - the GPS at 1/2 a pound, the first aid kit, the emergency road-side kit, did the SUV originally come with floor mats, you have an infant seat, and likely 1 or 2 booster seats, your purse (though, you said diaper bag- so likely no separate purse!), some drinks and snacks for the kids, activities for the kids (books, tablets, iPods, etc.). It all has a weight - maybe not a lot, but it adds up. If you're above or below 150 pounds, that matters in the tow rating and "this vehicle can carry X many pounds".

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