newbie with tongue weight question

[WolfWhistle]

The numbers in last post says the TW is 580# which is... the TV weight with trailer without WDH minus the TV by itself. TWR is 10%... good so far.

Then, with the trailer attached and with WDH, a 220# was moved back to the TV front axle of the 480# that was lightened by the trailer (no WDH), but with only 40# off the TV rear axle and 20# LESS from the trailer axle weight, where pray tell is the other 160#s?? WDH that removes weight from the trailer is quiet a feat, to be sure. If the axle weight actually dropped 20#s something is "methed" up.

Total weight of the rig without WDH = 12,700#
Total weight of the rig with WDH = 12,860#

An error of 160#... or about a 9% error. Is the numbers posted wrong, or what went wrong? If you left the WDH off the scale that certainly wouldn't account for 160# or that the trailer axle was less.

Even considering a 160# wife (don't tell her I know) that doesn't account for a trailer that loses 20# with WDH.... or did you have something in the trailer that you took out while in the weighing process. Oh, boy... buy them shoes and send them to school and what do they do

Ignoring the error and assuming the 160# was actually added to the TT axle pair (not 20# removed), even then... the WD needs to be tightened to get more of that 3180# initially back on the front of the TV... IMO, you should add much more tension to the load bars, or words to that effect.

[asquared]

Wolf- it's not an error, the cat scales can have 100 lb variation.


Dano- load leveling suspension is absolutely mess I.g with you. I went through this with my old Armada. Took me a long time to figure out it needed to be turned off for measurements and that using axle weights worked better with setting up.wdh with liD leveling suspension. Try to get your front axle as close to unloaded weight as possible without going heavier.

Your tongue weight is 9% (tw of 580, tt weight 6620 lbs). You need a heavier tongue weight. You need to increase to about 13% or 860 lbs. Anything in front of your trailer axles will increase your tongue weight.

[dano50]

Originally Posted by WolfWhistle

The numbers in last post says the TW is 580# which is... the TV weight with trailer without WDH minus the TV by itself. TWR is 10%... good so far.

Then, with the trailer attached and with WDH, a 220# was moved back to the TV front axle of the 480# that was lightened by the trailer (no WDH), but with only 40# off the TV rear axle and 20# LESS from the trailer axle weight, where pray tell is the other 160#s?? WDH that removes weight from the trailer is quiet a feat, to be sure. If the axle weight actually dropped 20#s something is "methed" up.

Total weight of the rig without WDH = 12,700#
Total weight of the rig with WDH = 12,860#

An error of 160#... or about a 9% error. Is the numbers posted wrong, or what went wrong? If you left the WDH off the scale that certainly wouldn't account for 160# or that the trailer axle was less.

Even considering a 160# wife (don't tell her I know) that doesn't account for a trailer that loses 20# with WDH.... or did you have something in the trailer that you took out while in the weighing process. Oh, boy... buy them shoes and send them to school and what do they do

Ignoring the error and assuming the 160# was actually added to the TT axle pair (not 20# removed), even then... the WD needs to be tightened to get more of that 3180# initially back on the front of the TV... IMO, you should add much more tension to the load bars, or words to that effect.

See my previous post: I had my wife in the car for the weight with WD attached and the TV alone but was not able to have her there with the WD detached. That will be the difference. The 20# difference in the TT, nothing changed, it didn't even move; just took the bars off the "L" brackets and reweighed. Oh, I did take 3 blocks of wood out of the TT to put under the jack (2 lbs. max total).

I'll raise the "L" brackets and see how much closer I get the front axle to the weight without the TT attached. Thanks for your comments.

[dano50]

Originally Posted by asquared

Wolf- it's not an error, the cat scales can have 100 lb variation.


Dano- load leveling suspension is absolutely mess I.g with you. I went through this with my old Armada. Took me a long time to figure out it needed to be turned off for measurements and that using axle weights worked better with setting up.wdh with liD leveling suspension. Try to get your front axle as close to unloaded weight as possible without going heavier.

Your tongue weight is 9% (tw of 580, tt weight 6620 lbs). You need a heavier tongue weight. You need to increase to about 13% or 860 lbs. Anything in front of your trailer axles will increase your tongue weight.

Thank you; I'll move the "L" brackets up, fill the empty propane, and get some more weight up front. I really appreciate all the help you guys are giving me.

[WolfWhistle]

Originally Posted by dano50

See my previous post: I had my wife in the car for the weight with WD attached and the TV alone but was not able to have her there with the WD detached. That will be the difference. The 20# difference in the TT, nothing changed, it didn't even move; just took the bars off the "L" brackets and reweighed. Oh, I did take 3 blocks of wood out of the TT to put under the jack (2 lbs. max total).

I'll raise the "L" brackets and see how much closer I get the front axle to the weight without the TT attached. Thanks for your comments.

At this point, Dano, why don't you go by tape measurements? Base your hitch / ball height on whatever it takes to make the trailer level to slightly nose down with WDH adjusted. I like to know how much the hitch drops with trailer on the ball without WDH so I can allow for it. Measure TV front bumper height with no trailer; then adjust the WDH with trailer attached and loaded for bear to produce the same TV front end height measurement... and with TV auto leveling turned off. I have never had to deal with auto leveling, but it should be a great asset. Then with auto leveling on, any small changes (such as wife or no wife) doesn't make enough difference to even consider. And, be sure to load the trailer load is well balanced; and, torque all hitch bolts. The real bottom line is how it handles and if you get any sway or not. My guess is that it will tow great. Let us know how it works and remember no post is complete without pictures!!

[lbrjet]

Each CAT scale platform can have a 20lb variance, not 100lbs.


2010 F250 5.4L 3.73
2011 Flagstaff 831FKBSS
Equal-i-zer 4pt 12K

[wbdavey]

Originally Posted by WolfWhistle

At this point, Dano, why don't you go by tape measurements?

Wolf - I have a similar situation as Dano (not much pin weight capacity). I originally set up my 4-way Equil-I-Zer by tape measurements, but found that my front axle was 220 pounds less than truck empty weight. By raising the L bracket 1 hole, I put almost all the 220 pounds back on the front axle, but the measurement changed by less that 1/4". With Dano's automatic leveling suspension, it's probably even less of a change for the 200 pounds he needs.

[dano50]

Originally Posted by lbrjet

Each CAT scale platform can have a 20lb variance, not 100lbs.


2010 F250 5.4L 3.73
2011 Flagstaff 831FKBSS
Equal-i-zer 4pt 12K

That's good to know. 100 sounded like a lot.

[WolfWhistle]

Originally Posted by dano50

That's good to know. 100 sounded like a lot.

Another thing D,

Accuracy isn't considered in pounds but in percentage. Also, these scales are built to weigh heavy things, which our TVs and TT aren't. 100 pounds off on a 1000 pound thing is poor... 100 pounds off on 20,000 pounds is good.

When you weighed your trailer you didn't move it. The tolerance or error in the scales is created by weighing at various points across the face of the platform. Makes sense that would be the case. These are scales not a scale, with 3 separate surfaces and 3 separate scales. I would consider the weight true unless proven to be wrong, which we aren't going to go to the trouble. What I noticed in the past, is if you weight an axle on one platform of the scale and then on another platform (or section) there are differences, so a difffence points to inaccuracy. Even portable scales weighing each wheel has about a 5% tolerance. These are close enough for our purposes.

They, CAT, do gurantee accuracy but like this:

If you get an overweight fine from the state after our scale showed you legal, we will immediately check our scale. If our scale is wrong, we will reimburse you for the fine. If our scale is correct, a representative of CAT Scale Company will appear in court with the driver as a witness.

If someone can show me their guarantee stated in percentage I will appreciate it, and be surprised.

I was a calibration specialist with the Army for a time and worked with test equipment, but physical (scales, for instance) and electronic based on a known standard. The key is the known standard is traceable to the national standard; as well as the skill of the person doing the calibration.