Nissan xd diesel?

[tomkatb]

Best of luck on the Nissan payload.

In the past trucks were payload rated "stock". Translated into English that ment no options, fuel or drivers. In addition the bed, spare tire and tailgate were not included. They were options. A 3/4 ton likely ranged from #1900 to #4500. Depends on the options.

Towing ability was defined by them. Gives you faith huh!

All numbers from the past were meaningless. Now there is a SAE standard for towing but not payload.

Ram lists about 400 payload ratings to explore based on the truck. They also follow the SAE standard. Who knows about the others.

The problem with diesels is they are #500 heavier than gas. However they tow more. But, are limited by payload.

[VernDiesel]

Tom towing ability was never defined by payload.
Max tow, axle ratings, CVWR, max tongue weight, and last GVWR are used. Above a 5,000 trailer use of a WDH also.
Ill informed newbies often stack weight estimates toward a payload sticker number. It’s bad math. Use a WDH for trailers above 5k and CAT scale to combine your truck axle weights to see if you are exceeding GVWR. Often it’s dramatically more than the guy stacking weights toward a payload sticker number thought it would be.

[dbledan]

Originally Posted by VernDiesel

Tom towing ability was never defined by payload.
Max tow, axle ratings, CVWR, max tongue weight, and last GVWR are used. Above a 5,000 trailer use of a WDH also.
Ill informed newbies often stack weight estimates toward a payload sticker number. It’s bad math. Use a WDH for trailers above 5k and CAT scale to combine your truck axle weights to see if you are exceeding GVWR. Often it’s dramatically more than the guy stacking weights toward a payload sticker number thought it would be.

Call me an ill informed newbie.

Curious why you think payload does not matter?

I do agree you cannot exceed the combined axle weights. Are you just saying payload is irrelevant when looking at axle weights? I can see how that would make some sense but not sure why you would discount payload completely. Help me understand your thoughts here.

[SlfMdeFam]

At the end of the day it’s a 1/2 ton, 5 or 6 lug truck. By adding a mini diesel doesn’t make it anymore of a towing machine than adding a big chrome exhaust tip adds horse power.

[KRSmitty]

Originally Posted by tdhanses

I recently added an AG Diesel module that adds 60hp and 100ft/lbs of torque and it really woke it up, doesn’t mess with the ECM. This is a very underrated brand.

Tdhanses, don't want to hijack this thread. PM me about your AG module please.

Thanks.

[VernDiesel]

Dbldan, Unless you or a mod removed a previous post and post 23 was your first post in this thread than I could not have been talking to or about you. Per your copy & paste it was a simple reply to Tom (Tomkatb) that “towing ability was never defined by payload.”

Never did I say payload does not matter. But towing payload is GVWR determined as described. Again not by stacking weight guesstimates from cab, bed, & tongue weight. The reason for this is that when towing over 5k where you are useing a WDH tongue weight is not static it’s dynamic as in divided between the truck & TT.

[dbledan]

Originally Posted by VernDiesel

Dbldan, Unless you or a mod removed a previous post and post 23 was your first post in this thread than I could not have been talking to or about you. Per your copy & paste it was a simple reply to Tom (Tomkatb) that “towing ability was never defined by payload.”

Never did I say payload does not matter. But towing payload is GVWR determined as described. Again not by stacking weight guesstimates from cab, bed, & tongue weight. The reason for this is that when towing over 5k where you are useing a WDH tongue weight is not static it’s dynamic as in divided between the truck & TT.

Oh I was not offended and did not think it was directed at me. I didn't mean to come off defensive. I was saying I use payload numbers.

I am trying to educate myself and make sure I am not missing something or doing something wrong. I see where you are going based on your response. Thanks!

I start at payload simply because I cannot weigh a truck or trailer unless I own them so when trying to help determine if someone would be over I start there. In the end I agree the scale is what matters.

If payload estimate is not over you could still be off on an axle. It is not something I could identify on the forum without a weigh slip which I believe is your point. I misconstrued your response that payload did not matter. You are right things are very dynamic and different

I use payload as a tool to help determine up front before you buy, weigh or when you cannot weigh (someone else's truck & trailer). We seem to agree that weighing in is what matters most and things are different each time you hook up. The estimates are maybe slightly better than using dry weight to determine if you can tow a trailer but it is what is available on a dealer lot before a scale.

[tomkatb]

I was confused yesterday on the Nissan site again.

They listed the payload on the gas truck at #1600.
The rating on the #500 pound heavier diesel(crew cab) truck was listed at #2100.

I would assume from that a heavier set of axles, tires, springs was used on the diesel truck. That is a good payload for a 1/2 ton pickup. More than the decked out RAM 2500 diesel.

It was #1200 when I looked in 2016 as I remember.

[VernDiesel]

Dbledan, Best way to match the compatibility of a new truck or trailer is to match truck Max tow rating to TT GVWR. Max tow should be equal or greater than TT GVWR.

The caveat is what do you additionally need to load in or on your truck. You will have to take that into account if you say plan to load an ATV in your bed.

Best way to take that into account is to take the dry weight of the TT & add 1,000 pounds for a safe normal wet weight. Take that number & multiply it by 12 percent to estimate tongue weight (TW) assuming your TT is at least 5k requiring a WDH. (TW should be between 10 & 15 percent for max stability)

So if you you know or look up on the Mfg site the weight of your truck or the truck you are considering & its GVWR you can do the math.


Let’s say your truck has a max tow of 9000 & the TT you are looking at has a GVWR of 8,000. Ok so far.

Say TT has a dry weight of 6,000 you should estimate a wet weight of 7,000 x 12 percent means your truck (axles on a scale) would see 840 pounds.

If truck Mfg says trucks GVWR is 7,000 & it weighs 5,500 you have 1,500 to work with. 1,500 less 840 leave 660 pounds. If you & DW weigh 350 you have 310 left. If you plan for basic supplies in the bed you are ok but if you plan to load an 800 pound ATV in the bed something probably should be changed. IE bigger truck, smaller trailer, no ATV, ATV on a tag trailer.. something.

Regardless to how your estimates work out for stability of tow & safety of your family the hitch & load should initially be set up per scale results. How to do this can be covered on a separate post or linked from another thread.

From another post; having enough weight on the steer axle, not over limit on the drive axle, and acceptable TW range is the primary things with other things like CVWR GVWR generally being secondary. Not that they are not of value as they are. CVWR is important to know you have the stopping capacity & suspension to handle that load in decending a curving mountain grade. But if you don’t first have axle weight distribution and TW range right it won’t even be stable & safe in windy conditions or in traffic on the flats let alone on mountain grades.

In fact as a side note I would rather have a 7,500 pound 1/2 ton as seen by scales towing a 7,500 as seen by scales TT than the same TV TT at 7,000 pounds towing 8,000 pounds again both as seen by scales. Assuming both combinations have acceptable axle rating etc. Because the first setup would be more stable & safe to drive than the second one even though the first setup is 500 pounds over GVWR. I’m not trying to encourage being over GVWR but rather making a point of what you have to know as to what, how, & if, you can get a particular combination to a safe & stable setup.

Mfg limits; axle weights, TW, CVWR, then GVWR.

[VernDiesel]

Tomkat, If you see the size & weight of and drive the XD you will see why everyone compares them to 3/4 tons. As to why a particular rating changed from 2016 till now I don’t know.

[fastalkintn]

Originally Posted by tomkatb

I was confused yesterday on the Nissan site again.

They listed the payload on the gas truck at #1600.
The rating on the #500 pound heavier diesel(crew cab) truck was listed at #2100.

I would assume from that a heavier set of axles, tires, springs was used on the diesel truck. That is a good payload for a 1/2 ton pickup. More than the decked out RAM 2500 diesel.

It was #1200 when I looked in 2016 as I remember.

Are you sure you weren’t looking at a gas regular titan? I have a gas xd with a 1800 lb payload. From what I understand, The only difference in the gas and diesel models are the engine. I can assure you the 2100 lb payload was for a base model. I’ve been looking at trading my gas for a diesel and the highest payload according to the door sticker for a mid range optioned diesel is 1675.

[tomkatb]

Yes. It was on their website yesterday. I did not believe it was correct. Seems backwards. Usually a diesel truck has a lower payload that its gas cousin. But, more towing ability.

My personal opinion is that I read all kinds of data on the Nissan truck.

If yours says the payload is #1600 that is what I remember from 2015. Too low for most fifth wheels. That number likely does not include you, fuel, the DW and kids or the hitch which is usually heavy.

The data appears contrived to me. Other owners have complained of minimal payload. A Cummins diesel is a piece of work. But, built to last. That translates into heavy.

Sort of makes the Nissan diesel/quad cab a 3/8 ton truck.

I wanted to buy that truck. It would be ideal for a trailer with low tongue weight.

[tdhanses]

Originally Posted by tomkatb

Yes. It was on their website yesterday. I did not believe it was correct. Seems backwards. Usually a diesel truck has a lower payload that its gas cousin. But, more towing ability.

My personal opinion is that I read all kinds of data on the Nissan truck.

If yours says the payload is #1600 that is what I remember from 2015. Too low for most fifth wheels. That number likely does not include you, fuel, the DW and kids or the hitch which is usually heavy.

The data appears contrived to me. Other owners have complained of minimal payload. A Cummins diesel is a piece of work. But, built to last. That translates into heavy.

Sort of makes the Nissan diesel/quad cab a 3/8 ton truck.

I wanted to buy that truck. It would be ideal for a trailer with low tongue weight.

So what your sayin is a F150 is a more capable tow vehicle?

[dbledan]

Originally Posted by tdhanses

So what your sayin is a F150 is a more capable tow vehicle?

Oh boy here we go...It actually took 33 posts to get here.

[GearHd6]

Originally Posted by dbledan

Oh boy here we go...It actually took 33 posts to get here.

Ha ha, yep, it's all over.

[VernDiesel]

Lol TDhaneses. With the lower axle limits, lighter weight, lesser GVWR no the 1/2 ton f150 even if it has a higher payload is not a more capable tow vehicle than the bigger heavier duty Titan XD. There is lots here in this thread & on this forum to educate yourself on what defines towing capability & what per mfg spec is required to set up a safe stable tow.

[SlfMdeFam]

Annnnnd it turned into a F-150 thread. Unfollow

[updhaul]

Nissan was trying to create a presence in a crowded brand loyal pickup truck field with their heavy half ton XD diesel. Very attractive prices, they seem to have created a nice niche with the diesel. Owners I know complain of lower fuel tank and additive tank capacity but love mileage in a truck worth looking at. Dealership network availability was an issue here when I went to test it.

[DieselDrax]

So, here's the thought process I went through recently when deciding on my next truck.

The first requirement was that it had to be a diesel. I refuse to tow with a gas truck ever again.

So I started looking at the 3/4-ton Ram and GM trucks, but after talking with the wife about what we were actually going to do down the road we decided that would be overkill. I was thinking we'd do a 5th wheel in a few years with the kids out of the house, but she would rather do an RV. I'm fine with either, but glad we discussed this before buying a truck. So now that the HD trucks were out of the picture I started looking at the Ram 1500 EcoDiesel and Titan XD. I'd owned a Titan in the past and it was a fine truck and I was curious about the new XD diesel.

First, the Ram 1500 ED. I spent a couple of weeks researching them and talking with owners. Ultimately I ruled it out due to limited payload/tow capacity and reliability/durability issues. Lots of problems with the oil cooler leading to engine replacements, even a local used 2016 on a Ram lot had a failed oil cooler as it sat there for sale on the lot. It's unfortunate because the Ram 1500 EDs are great otherwise, good power/torque and fuel economy.

Now, the Titan XD diesel. Read a number of complaints about the emissions system leaving people stranded or without trucks for weeks/months while dealers try and fix the problem. Realizing that wasn't happening to all owners, I decided to keep researching other aspects. The nail in the coffin was the fuel economy. One of the diesel advantages should be efficiency, but it became clear that the XD diesel was not efficient in the least. Not when compared to capacity/capability of the larger trucks. Looking on Fuelly, the average is barely over 16mpg with only a few barely able to have a best tank of over 20mpg. As for price, they may be selling them for a huge discount because they are selling horribly but sticker for sticker it would have made more sense to buy a 3/4-ton truck than the XD diesel; Better economy, similar price, more capacity, and better reliability.

And that's what it ultimately came down to, these 4 things...

- Capacity
- Durability/Reliability
- Efficiency
- Value

The XD was beat out in all 4 of those categories by other trucks.

So, you look at my sig and see that I ended up with a GMC Canyon and are confused. How in the world did a Canyon beat out even the half-ton diesels?

- Capacity: Higher payload and towing capacity than a Ram 1500 ED Crew Cab 4x4 and roughly 500lb less payload capacity than an XD diesel crew cab 4x4. That's not a small amount, but I also expected the XD diesel to have more considering where it's trying to compete.
- Durability/Reliability: Fewer reported problems/higher satisfaction among owners that I spoke to and found when researching compared to the Ram 1500 ED and XD diesel. Reliability on-par with the big DMAX and Cummins trucks of similar years.
Efficiency: I average 24mpg with my mixed freeway/city driving, I can get over 30mpg on country roads going 55-65mph and around 27mpg on the freeway at 75mph. Towing fuel economy tends to be higher than an XD diesel when empty.
- Value: I was able to buy a new Canyon Denali for essentially the same price as a used Ram 1500 ED Laramie and for less than any other 2014+ full-size diesel with less than 60k miles.

Plus, this little Canyon has a factory exhaust brake. I was surprised the 5.0 Cummins didn't have one.

This isn't to say the XD is a bad truck or that nobody should buy one, but I thought it might be worth sharing since I was looking at pretty much everything with a diesel. I didn't even consider the Canyon/Colorado at first since I wrongly assumed that being a mid-size truck meant that the payload and tow capacities would be well below any 1/2-ton truck and wouldn't fit our needs. Turns out I was wrong.

Would I tow a 5th wheel with it? Nope. But I wouldn't tow a 5th wheel with an XD diesel, either. That is 3/4-ton minimum territory, 1-ton preferred, due to capability and comfort. Towing a trailer when at or over capacity is never fun, I don't care what truck you have. I expect pushing the XD over payload/GVWR results in a less-than-relaxing experience even though I'm sure there are people that will say it's the best truck ever. Heck, I've come across people that claim their Canyon/Colorado is a better tow vehicle than a 3/4-ton diesel they had before. I'm a fan, but I'm not delusional.

[dbledan]

Originally Posted by DieselDrax

So, here's the thought process I went through recently when deciding on my next truck.

The first requirement was that it had to be a diesel. I refuse to tow with a gas truck ever again.

So I started looking at the 3/4-ton Ram and GM trucks, but after talking with the wife about what we were actually going to do down the road we decided that would be overkill. I was thinking we'd do a 5th wheel in a few years with the kids out of the house, but she would rather do an RV. I'm fine with either, but glad we discussed this before buying a truck. So now that the HD trucks were out of the picture I started looking at the Ram 1500 EcoDiesel and Titan XD. I'd owned a Titan in the past and it was a fine truck and I was curious about the new XD diesel.

First, the Ram 1500 ED. I spent a couple of weeks researching them and talking with owners. Ultimately I ruled it out due to limited payload/tow capacity and reliability/durability issues. Lots of problems with the oil cooler leading to engine replacements, even a local used 2016 on a Ram lot had a failed oil cooler as it sat there for sale on the lot. It's unfortunate because the Ram 1500 EDs are great otherwise, good power/torque and fuel economy.

Now, the Titan XD diesel. Read a number of complaints about the emissions system leaving people stranded or without trucks for weeks/months while dealers try and fix the problem. Realizing that wasn't happening to all owners, I decided to keep researching other aspects. The nail in the coffin was the fuel economy. One of the diesel advantages should be efficiency, but it became clear that the XD diesel was not efficient in the least. Not when compared to capacity/capability of the larger trucks. Looking on Fuelly, the average is barely over 16mpg with only a few barely able to have a best tank of over 20mpg. As for price, they may be selling them for a huge discount because they are selling horribly but sticker for sticker it would have made more sense to buy a 3/4-ton truck than the XD diesel; Better economy, similar price, more capacity, and better reliability.

And that's what it ultimately came down to, these 4 things...

- Capacity
- Durability/Reliability
- Efficiency
- Value

The XD was beat out in all 4 of those categories by other trucks.

So, you look at my sig and see that I ended up with a GMC Canyon and are confused. How in the world did a Canyon beat out even the half-ton diesels?

- Capacity: Higher payload and towing capacity than a Ram 1500 ED Crew Cab 4x4 and roughly 500lb less payload capacity than an XD diesel crew cab 4x4. That's not a small amount, but I also expected the XD diesel to have more considering where it's trying to compete.
- Durability/Reliability: Fewer reported problems/higher satisfaction among owners that I spoke to and found when researching compared to the Ram 1500 ED and XD diesel. Reliability on-par with the big DMAX and Cummins trucks of similar years.
Efficiency: I average 24mpg with my mixed freeway/city driving, I can get over 30mpg on country roads going 55-65mph and around 27mpg on the freeway at 75mph. Towing fuel economy tends to be higher than an XD diesel when empty.
- Value: I was able to buy a new Canyon Denali for essentially the same price as a used Ram 1500 ED Laramie and for less than any other 2014+ full-size diesel with less than 60k miles.

Plus, this little Canyon has a factory exhaust brake. I was surprised the 5.0 Cummins didn't have one.

This isn't to say the XD is a bad truck or that nobody should buy one, but I thought it might be worth sharing since I was looking at pretty much everything with a diesel. I didn't even consider the Canyon/Colorado at first since I wrongly assumed that being a mid-size truck meant that the payload and tow capacities would be well below any 1/2-ton truck and wouldn't fit our needs. Turns out I was wrong.

Would I tow a 5th wheel with it? Nope. But I wouldn't tow a 5th wheel with an XD diesel, either. That is 3/4-ton minimum territory, 1-ton preferred, due to capability and comfort. Towing a trailer when at or over capacity is never fun, I don't care what truck you have. I expect pushing the XD over payload/GVWR results in a less-than-relaxing experience even though I'm sure there are people that will say it's the best truck ever. Heck, I've come across people that claim their Canyon/Colorado is a better tow vehicle than a 3/4-ton diesel they had before. I'm a fan, but I'm not delusional.

Good write up!