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Old 06-15-2015, 04:56 AM   #31
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When I picked up my 2013 Grey Wolf 26DBH from a private seller last fall, I started checking the air pressure in the tires. He stopped me and told me I can't add air because they are "nitrogen filled". It didn't seem to matter to him that he had been running his tires at 25 psi instead of the 50 psi recommended on the sidewall. Needless to say, it became very obvious to me why the 3 year old tires were bald on all of the edges.

I pumped up the tires a mile from the sellers house and white knuckled my way home. New tires were ordered the next day.
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Old 06-15-2015, 09:18 AM   #32
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Ram Trucks Ram 1500 aair suspension is a closed nitrogen system.

Dang, thought I was on to an untapped market.
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Old 06-15-2015, 10:09 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by B and B View Post
I don't know why everyone is anti-Nitrogen. I get it for free from either Ford or the Tire supplier. They don't charge extra in Canada.
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It's a Canadian thing Lou, I guess we just don't understand

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Old 06-15-2015, 03:43 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by DreiHunde View Post
Oh no....not again.
Seems to be the time of the year for this subject.
But because the question pups up again here, I feel free to give my made document about it again, as I did in many fora, but as I read back not yet in th e topic Herk gave.

Filling car tires with normal air is even better then to fill with Nitrogen.

A. Oxygen, which makes 21% of normal outside air, in volume absorbs more energy to rise a degree in temperature then Nitrogen.
Difference is only 1% , but in selling argument is sometimes mentioned in energy/ mass so Joule/kg.degr. Kelvin and there Nitrogen wins by 13 % . Tires though are filled with a certain volume so that counts .
This selling argument can be de-myth simply by the fact that its untrue.

B. Water in a tire transports the heat more then dry air or Nitrogen-filling ( which is by its production process free of water).
Not for no reason water is used in central heating and cooling system of cars as main substance.
The tire inside will have lower temperature which is better for cooling down the important spots of the tire wich have to keep a low enough temperature to prevent hardening and damage in next bending of those parts.
When incidentally the tire inside gets hotter ( sunshine on tire or severe braking, or high ambient temperature) more water goes over to gas wich highens the pressure inside the tire more then dry gas. Also then more water as gas in tire so even better cooling.
So advantage of water is 2 ways when needed, better cooling and lesser heat production.
Disadvantages of water as oxidation only happen at outside . Tire specialists will confirm that when they remove a tire of the rim , the rim inside the tire is not corroded.

C. When a Truck, transporting flammable substance, is on fire, the little oxygen in a tire will , when exploding ,probably even kill the fire .
In tunnels experiments where done to kill the fire with air current , and it worked, despite the oxygen in it.

D. A normal car tire up to truck tire is not a race-car tire, for which a constant as high as possible contact area, so best grip , is needed to give half a second better round time.
For that reason they are filled with as dry as possible air or Nitrogen.
That this gives low lifetime is not important, and for a normal car tire it is.
Often blowing tires at racing, is seen there as collateral damage, but we donít want that for normal car tires.


E. A car tire is also not a airplane- tire in which the water can freeze and when landing this can give misbalance , which can lead to tire-failure or accident, when suddenly going from zero to about 200m/h.
The water in a car tire does not freeze that often, and when it does and the car begins do drive , it begins slow and the misbalance is not a big problem . then pretty soon, certainly when on speed the ice is melted to water and problem will be gone.

F. When filled with normal air the user is aware of checking the tires regularly, which takes better care of a saver tire, because regularly filled up to the right pressure and optical checking of the tire .
The illusion that Nitrogen filling makes the tire to loose almost no pressure, which is often exaggerated to 5 times , while in real a poor 2 times and then only in the very beginning, makes the user less caring .
The tire also looses air when hitting pavement so temporary leak between edge of tire and rim, Filling with whatever gas-combination wonít prevent that.
This idea is even stronger when TMPS is used which is often inaccurate , so the user thinks to maintain the right pressure, while really riding with to low pressure for longer time, which can lead to tire damage. Aftermarket sensors for TMPS when screwed on the valve can give leakage trough hole where valve is placed , because of the bending of the valve by centrifugal forces at speed.

G. Filling with normal air is always possible, even with a bicycle- pump, is only to fill up so wonít take that long. When you keep driving with to low pressure , in order to find a place to fill with Nitrogen, you damage your tires. So just fill up with normal outside air, even when the tire is filled with Nitrogen. Then also you donít need to have the tire refilled with pure Nitrogen by your tire specialist when at home again, not worth the trouble, and normal air is even better then nitrogen because of the water in it.
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Old 06-15-2015, 05:52 PM   #35
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What Scientific American has to say about this:

Do Nitrogen-Filled Tires Enhance Fuel-Efficiency? - Scientific American

What the New York Times had to say about this:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/09/au...MOTO.html?_r=0

What Consumer Reports had to say:

Tires - Nitrogen air loss study

FYI - the CR study did show that the 95% N2 tire (the BEST you will get from "garage type" N2 Generators used on the track and in gas and tire stations), lost 1.3 PSI less than the 78% N2 tire (air) over the course of a year. However they both lost enough air to require filling to be safe. The N2 tires lost an average of 2.2 PSI and the "AIR" tires lost an average of 3.5 PSI.

See the N2 molecule "size" explanation as to why that is so.

See also the "Truths and Myths" article.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf N2 debate molecule size.pdf (76.1 KB, 6 views)
File Type: pdf The Truths and Myths of nitrogen.pdf (348.2 KB, 12 views)
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Old 06-15-2015, 09:35 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by jadatis View Post
Seems to be the time of the year for this subject.

But because the question pups up again here, I feel free to give my made document about it again, as I did in many fora, but as I read back not yet in th e topic Herk gave.



Filling car tires with normal air is even better then to fill with Nitrogen.



A.Oxygen, which makes 21% of normal outside air, in volume absorbs more energy to rise a degree in temperature then Nitrogen.

Difference is only 1% , but in selling argument is sometimes mentioned in energy/ mass so Joule/kg.degr. Kelvin and there Nitrogen wins by 13 % . Tires though are filled with a certain volume so that counts .

This selling argument can be de-myth simply by the fact that its untrue.



B.Water in a tire transports the heat more then dry air or Nitrogen-filling ( which is by its production process free of water).

Not for no reason water is used in central heating and cooling system of cars as main substance.

The tire inside will have lower temperature which is better for cooling down the important spots of the tire wich have to keep a low enough temperature to prevent hardening and damage in next bending of those parts.

When incidentally the tire inside gets hotter ( sunshine on tire or severe braking, or high ambient temperature) more water goes over to gas wich highens the pressure inside the tire more then dry gas. Also then more water as gas in tire so even better cooling.

So advantage of water is 2 ways when needed, better cooling and lesser heat production.

Disadvantages of water as oxidation only happen at outside . Tire specialists will confirm that when they remove a tire of the rim , the rim inside the tire is not corroded.



C.When a Truck, transporting flammable substance, is on fire, the little oxygen in a tire will , when exploding ,probably even kill the fire .

In tunnels experiments where done to kill the fire with air current , and it worked, despite the oxygen in it.



D.A normal car tire up to truck tire is not a race-car tire, for which a constant as high as possible contact area, so best grip , is needed to give half a second better round time.

For that reason they are filled with as dry as possible air or Nitrogen.

That this gives low lifetime is not important, and for a normal car tire it is.

Often blowing tires at racing, is seen there as collateral damage, but we donít want that for normal car tires.





E.A car tire is also not a airplane- tire in which the water can freeze and when landing this can give misbalance , which can lead to tire-failure or accident, when suddenly going from zero to about 200m/h.

The water in a car tire does not freeze that often, and when it does and the car begins do drive , it begins slow and the misbalance is not a big problem . then pretty soon, certainly when on speed the ice is melted to water and problem will be gone.



F.When filled with normal air the user is aware of checking the tires regularly, which takes better care of a saver tire, because regularly filled up to the right pressure and optical checking of the tire .

The illusion that Nitrogen filling makes the tire to loose almost no pressure, which is often exaggerated to 5 times , while in real a poor 2 times and then only in the very beginning, makes the user less caring .

The tire also looses air when hitting pavement so temporary leak between edge of tire and rim, Filling with whatever gas-combination wonít prevent that.

This idea is even stronger when TMPS is used which is often inaccurate , so the user thinks to maintain the right pressure, while really riding with to low pressure for longer time, which can lead to tire damage. Aftermarket sensors for TMPS when screwed on the valve can give leakage trough hole where valve is placed , because of the bending of the valve by centrifugal forces at speed.



G.Filling with normal air is always possible, even with a bicycle- pump, is only to fill up so wonít take that long. When you keep driving with to low pressure , in order to find a place to fill with Nitrogen, you damage your tires. So just fill up with normal outside air, even when the tire is filled with Nitrogen. Then also you donít need to have the tire refilled with pure Nitrogen by your tire specialist when at home again, not worth the trouble, and normal air is even better then nitrogen because of the water in it.

Going back to point "B", doesn't it take 212 degrees to turn water into gas? The reason you don't find corrosion on the inside of the rim is because it's painted or alloy.


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Old 06-15-2015, 10:32 PM   #37
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We use nitrogen in the commercial and industrial a/c field but for my RV, truck, car and tractor they get good old air from a 2 story stagnated air within that's sucked into my old air compressor. Has worked for me every time LOL. I say check your TV and RV tire often and always before traveling to the next camping spot and you will be confident that there is oxygen and nitrogen mix in your tires and at the proper pressure as they should be. This isn't NASCAR RV tires aren't designed for those speeds. LOL
if you want to spend the your money on nitrogen for your tires go ahead your not hurting my feelings. You can buy a nitrogen tank have it filled and carry it with you as a spare tank to use in your tires. Tank, gauge and hose setup will set you back a few hundred but it's only money. LOL. I think this bush has been beat to death. LOL it good old air for my RV tires and they get 80#s of it. Happy Camping check your tires.
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Old 06-16-2015, 06:32 AM   #38
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We use nitrogen in the commercial and industrial a/c field but for my RV, truck, car and tractor they get good old air from a 2 story stagnated air within that's sucked into my old air compressor. Has worked for me every time LOL. I say check your TV and RV tire often and always before traveling to the next camping spot and you will be confident that there is oxygen and nitrogen mix in your tires and at the proper pressure as they should be. This isn't NASCAR RV tires aren't designed for those speeds. LOL

if you want to spend the your money on nitrogen for your tires go ahead your not hurting my feelings. You can buy a nitrogen tank have it filled and carry it with you as a spare tank to use in your tires. Tank, gauge and hose setup will set you back a few hundred but it's only money. LOL. I think this bush has been beat to death. LOL it good old air for my RV tires and they get 80#s of it. Happy Camping check your tires.

Agreed!


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Old 06-16-2015, 11:44 AM   #39
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OV845 wrote in reaction to my long story:
Going back to point "B", doesn't it take 212 degrees to turn water into gas? The reason you don't find corrosion on the inside of the rim is because it's painted or alloy.

At 212degr F /100degrC water coocks because the partial pressure of water is at that temp 1013 milibar so the same as outside average.
But at lower pressures there is also water gas in the air as humiditi.
In the tire also to sertain temp belongs a partial pressure of water .
Dont matter if the pressure inside tire 0 psi or 100 psi , inside tire temp of 212 degr F gives that 1013 mbar partial pressure of water as maximum wich is about 14.5 psi.
Even a waterpool on road can totally evaporate in the long run,even at 70 degr F ambiŽnt temp.

second point rimms are also painted or alloy at the outside.
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Old 06-16-2015, 12:44 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by jadatis View Post
OV845 wrote in reaction to my long story:

Going back to point "B", doesn't it take 212 degrees to turn water into gas? The reason you don't find corrosion on the inside of the rim is because it's painted or alloy.



At 212degr F /100degrC water coocks because the partial pressure of water is at that temp 1013 milibar so the same as outside average.

But at lower pressures there is also water gas in the air as humiditi.

In the tire also to sertain temp belongs a partial pressure of water .

Dont matter if the pressure inside tire 0 psi or 100 psi , inside tire temp of 212 degr F gives that 1013 mbar partial pressure of water as maximum wich is about 14.5 psi.

Even a waterpool on road can totally evaporate in the long run,even at 70 degr F ambiŽnt temp.



second point rimms are also painted or alloy at the outside.

I've never seen a wheel get that hot unless it was a mechanical failure. True on the rims but if you live in let's say Galvaston TX or some where in the Midwest you have to factor in the salt. People look for cars less humid states less rust.


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