no trailer brakes

[upflying]

Originally Posted by DieselDrax

Wow, I feel your frustration. It's absolutely ridiculous that it's taken them this long as STILL you have problems.

I replaced all 4 brake assemblies and re-packed the bearings on our 1994 horse trailer a few months ago (we bought it a few months ago and it needed a bit of work before it would be up to my standards for safe hauling). It took an afternoon and that was largely due to rust and having to cut nuts off, etc. If it were a newer trailer like our Flagstaff there's no reason I wouldn't be able to do the same in a couple of hours.

Similarly, if it were a wiring problem due to a bad/nicked wire there's no reason why new wires couldn't be easily run if the factory wires were hidden/sealed by foam and run where access is poor.

Not that I would want to do the work when there's a warranty, but if the choice would be dealing with that dealer or spending some time over a weekend to fix it right myself I know what I would do. I understand that isn't an option for everyone, but the point is that it's not difficult work and it's absolutely unacceptable that the dealer still hasn't fixed the brakes yet.

Good luck, I hope you have a functional trailer soon and it doesn't eat into your camping season!

Yea, the belly of the trailer is sealed with expanding foam. A look at the brake circuit wiring from the 7 pin to the magnets will be impossible.
Either the expanding foam stressed the brake wires or a wire was nicked with a screw when the floor was installed.
Time to rewire a new run below the foam.
Camping? Haven't used it yet, the plastic cover is still on the mattress.

[Bama Rambler]

It's been an ordeal, but hopefully they'll get it sorted out soon and you'll have many happy years of good braking! .

At least you talked the SA into actually hooking it to a working brake controller before you made another trip.

New brakes do require burnishing (breaking in). There's a procedure for doing that in the brake manual. Here's what it says in one manual:

Brakes can be seated in by applying approximately 8-10 volts to the trailer brakes at an initial speed of 40 mph and allowing the truck/trailer combination to slow down to 20 or 25 mph. For best results do not use truck brakes during this procedure. The trailer brakes will seat -in faster by using them to stop both the truck and trailer. The easiest method is to apply the trailer brakes using the manual activation lever located on the in-cab brake controller. Care must be taken to not overheat the lining material, therefore brake applications conducted at one mile intervals will suffice.

[DieselDrax]

Originally Posted by Bama Rambler

It's been an ordeal, but hopefully they'll get it sorted out soon and you'll have many happy years of good braking! .

At least you talked the SA into actually hooking it to a working brake controller before you made another trip.

New brakes do require burnishing (breaking in). There's a procedure for doing that in the brake manual. Here's what it says in one manual:

All this talk of brakes has me thinking I'll go make sure the ones on the Flagstaff are properly adjusted. They work well and I don't have to set the gain to max, but I do run it around 7-8.

Compare that with the brakes I put on the horse trailer recently, I only need to set the gain to 4-5 to get good, strong (but not too aggressive) braking. Part of that could be less voltage loss/better circuit or just new brakes and being adjusted, but either way it'll be worth it to me to go through the brakes on the Flagstaff.

Also, I opted for the self-adjusting brake assemblies for the horse trailer which may have also helped. They're not fool-proof or 100% reliable, but so far they've been working well.

[upflying]

Originally Posted by Bama Rambler

It's been an ordeal, but hopefully they'll get it sorted out soon and you'll have many happy years of good braking! .

At least you talked the SA into actually hooking it to a working brake controller before you made another trip.

New brakes do require burnishing (breaking in). There's a procedure for doing that in the brake manual. Here's what it says in one manual:

I'd break open a beer to celebrate the day I get to break in the brakes. Trouble is, I never got any brakes even at max intensity and sensitivity settings on my Curt TriFlex.
I am glad to hear the dealership shop truck could not get the broken brakes to work. Maybe they will find what's broke.

[upflying]

Got a call yesterday afternoon from the service "advisor". She said my trailer has been tested by the shop truck and the brakes are working properly. She said all they needed was an "adjustment". I heard that same adjustment story several times before.
Skeptical, I drove back to the dealer, reinstalled my freshly charged house batteries and hooked 'er up to my Frontier.
I pulled forward six feet, still no brakes. Just a slight drag..the same as it was when I took delivery on February 12. No change in braking when adjusting my brake control to max settings. No change when applying the manual brake control. I pulled the break-away switch, same slight drag, trailer moved freely.
Dagnabbit, the service advisor called the service techs out of the shop. The said they didn't work on the trailer and didn't know the history behind it.
Both climbed under the axles and adjusted the brakes out as far as they could..
Both took my truck and trailer out for a test drive, there was some improvement after the brake adjustment but there was still a very weak application.
One of the techs said the problem was with FR's decision to install self-adjusting brakes on a single axle trailer. He said the manually adjusting brakes work better and are much more reliable.
Any ideas form the forum on what the problem is? The 7 pin is getting power from the controller and the breakaway is getting 12 volts. Could it be resistance and a voltage drop before it reaches the magnets? The brakes are working , just weak.
I expressed my concern that an earlier diagnosis 2 weeks ago had determined there was no power to the magnets. I told the service "advisor" that the problem had been determined to be electrical at that time.
The "service advisor" said the wring to the brakes was not accessible under the trailer and cannot be serviced. Yeah, I know that, the brake wires are buried in spray foam insulation.
I pulled my batteries out and dropped the trailer exactly where I found it.
Another week without a TT I have never used.
Anyone have a contact at FR in the warranty department?

[Retired JSO]

Originally Posted by upflying

I stopped by the dealer yesterday to take a photo of the brakes. No signs of progress yet. While I was there, a service "technician" apologized to me for taking so long to complete the repair.

He said they are still waiting for warranty authorization from Lippert to be able to complete repairs. He also said they are waiting for backing plates.

Backing plates? @#$%& do backing plates have to do with contaminated brake shoes?

I corrected him and said I hope they didn't order backing plates from Lippert.

Brake shoes are the only parts needed, apparently shoes are very rare and a difficult to find part since it takes weeks to get them from Lippert. (sarcasm)



I'll post a brake photo in a moment once I figure out how to do it.

Your dealer/service person is full of it. The shoes on the lippert axles and the shoes on a Dexter are the same. I’ve never seen 12” or 10” shoes or baking plates unavailable. My brother owns a trailer repair shop and buys them each and every week from the area distributor . He always has 30-40 pairs of 10” and 12” shoes on hand along with the same amount of right and left backing plates in stock.

[babock]

Originally Posted by upflying

Any ideas form the forum on what the problem is?

You need to burnish/seat the brakes. Mine were like that when I first bought my trailer.


Hopefully they didn't leave the grease contaminated shoes on there...if so, all bets are off.

[Bama Rambler]

As Babock said, if they replaced the brake shoes, then the brakes need burnishing before they will work properly. If you just pulled it slowly in the parking lot and they provided some braking then they may just need burnishing to gain full effectiveness. Personally I'd go back to the dealer and hook to it and tow it down the road and follow the break in procedure I posted above, with the understanding that you're going to bring it back if that doesn't make a marked improvement. Alternately you could tell the dealer to do it for you, but do you trust them to do it correctly?

Also, the wiring can be checked without accessing the entire run. Apply 12 volts to the 7-way and test voltage at the magnets. It should be pretty near 12 volts. Don't unhook the magnets when making this test. You need the load on the wiring for a valid test.

[upflying]

Originally Posted by Bama Rambler

As Babock said, if they replaced the brake shoes, then the brakes need burnishing before they will work properly. If you just pulled it slowly in the parking lot and they provided some braking then they may just need burnishing to gain full effectiveness. Personally I'd go back to the dealer and hook to it and tow it down the road and follow the break in procedure I posted above, with the understanding that you're going to bring it back if that doesn't make a marked improvement. Alternately you could tell the dealer to do it for you, but do you trust them to do it correctly?

Also, the wiring can be checked without accessing the entire run. Apply 12 volts to the 7-way and test voltage at the magnets. It should be pretty near 12 volts. Don't unhook the magnets when making this test. You need the load on the wiring for a valid test.

I went through the burnishing break-in when I bought the trailer. I pulled it about 40 miles between the dealer and storage, as well as a stop at the CAT scale. There was no improvement to braking during that time, hence the return to the dealer 3 weeks ago. The caveat is those shoes I was breaking in were contaminated.
My experience with trailer brakes goes back 35 years when I was pulling Fleetwood products. In those days, my brake controller could be adjusted from light application to full lock-up with the manual control. The brakes were new back then too.
Are modern trailer brakes and controllers no longer capable of strong braking application when manually applied at maximum settings?
And what would cause the brakes to continue to drag lightly when pulling the break-away cable? From what the dealer techs tell me, the trailer should not move...much like a parking brake if a trailer had one.
The dealer techs are baffled and frustrated, they did drive my truck and pull my trailer for about 3 miles and concluded something is still wrong. At their request, I left it there.
I concur, a multimeter check between the 7 pin and the magnets might answer a lot of questions. They did that in my presence weeks ago and concluded the magnets had no voltage. It appears the magnets are getting some voltage but not enough.
I appreciate the feedback.

[babock]

Brake magnets are 3 to 4 ohm which means 4 in parallel are between 1 and 0.75. You can apply 12V and measure the current with a meter that is capable of measuring that much current(over 16A) to see what you measure. You can also measure the resistance to ground of the brake circuit and make sure you measure that 1 to 0.75 ohms.

[Hoyt]

Supply 12v to the brakes in some way. A small 12 volt battery (quad battery?) will due. I'd cut the power wire and hook directly to the battery them pull like you've done testing the breakaway. Or you could tie a wire to your 7 pin and splice it to the power by the axle. Could it be the ground? When this fails, get on with running new wires to the brakes. I suspect your initial diagnosis was correct, broken/damaged wire. As someone else mentioned, solder and heat shrink is best.

It is bad that your are suffering this frustration but I need to say that I've enjoyed the sass and sarcasm I've detected in your posts.

Good luck.

[upflying]

Originally Posted by Hoyt

Supply 12v to the brakes in some way. A small 12 volt battery (quad battery?) will due. I'd cut the power wire and hook directly to the battery them pull like you've done testing the breakaway. Or you could tie a wire to your 7 pin and splice it to the power by the axle. Could it be the ground? When this fails, get on with running new wires to the brakes. I suspect your initial diagnosis was correct, broken/damaged wire. As someone else mentioned, solder and heat shrink is best.

It is bad that your are suffering this frustration but I need to say that I've enjoyed the sass and sarcasm I've detected in your posts.

Good luck.

Two weeks ago, I watched the techs jerry-rig a 7 pin they plugged into the trailer connector. They jumped the 12v power wire to the blue trailer brake wire to see if the brakes activated and nada. Yet the techs replaced and adjusted the brakes and claimed all is good. It's almost like the various techs aren't talking to each other..
It's something obvious that is staring all of us in the eye. My past frustrations with old car 12 volt systems pointed to grounds, so that could be it.
I'll have some more news next week.
Sorry, sarcasm, curmudgeon behavior and cynicism is a byproduct of my professional career, now retired. My suspicious cup is always half-empty, not half-full.
Do you think I should contact FR?

[DieselDrax]

Originally Posted by upflying

Do you think I should contact FR?

Absolutely! This is unacceptable, they need to know how awful this dealer has been and hopefully step in to help you out.

[Hoyt]

Originally Posted by upflying

Two weeks ago, I watched the techs jerry-rig a 7 pin they plugged into the trailer connector.

I think you should get them to bypass the wire from the plug to the brakes. I agree with your assessment that there is a short in the wire...or perhaps a poor ground on the brake wire. At least I think there are two wires to each wheel, one hot and the other ground.

Originally Posted by upflying

Sorry, sarcasm, curmudgeon behavior and cynicism is a byproduct of my professional career, now retired. My suspicious cup is always half-empty, not half-full.
Do you think I should contact FR?

Don't be sorry, I at least, enjoy it. My cup is always twice as big as it needs to be.

And yes you should contact FR. You might get some traction there? Or you should tell your dealer to take you old one on trade for the same model at equal value?Not sure they would go for that. Maybe FR can?

[babock]

If I was in your shoes, I would just fix it myself. The aggravation you are having is why I wouldn't have gone through all of what you have in the first place.

Mine would have been already fixed the day after you posted back 2 1/2 weeks ago.

Totally laughing at the comment about trading the trailer because of this issue.

[upflying]

Originally Posted by babock

If I was in your shoes, I would just fix it myself. The aggravation you are having is why I wouldn't have gone through all of what you have in the first place.

Mine would have been already fixed the day after you posted back 2 1/2 weeks ago.

Totally laughing at the comment about trading the trailer because of this issue.

I will give FR a call tomorrow, when I have a lot of time to listen to repeated recordings of "all of our representatives are busy, we value your business, please stay on the line and a service representative will be with your shortly".

[babock]

Originally Posted by upflying

I will give FR a call tomorrow, when I have a lot of time to listen to repeated recordings of "all of our representatives are busy, we value your business, please stay on the line and a service representative will be with your shortly".

I am at my vacation house in South Lake Tahoe. By the time you get off the phone and make arrangements, I could have driven up there and fixed it for you.

[upflying]

Originally Posted by babock

I am at my vacation house in South Lake Tahoe. By the time you get off the phone and make arrangements, I could have driven up there and fixed it for you.

Fixing it myself is an appetizing idea, but my HOA would have a cow if I started pulling wheels, brakes and doing the low belly crawl under the trailer on the street in front of my house, this is the Somersett area of Reno.
I'm an old car guy and I have work on it in my closed garage.

[babock]

Originally Posted by upflying

Fixing it myself is an appetizing idea, but my HOA would have a cow if I started pulling wheels, brakes and doing the low belly crawl under the trailer on the street in front of my house, this is the Somersett area of Reno.
I'm an old car guy and I have work on it in my closed garage.

I have an HOA here in Tahoe(Tahoe Keys) and as long as it wasn't there for more than 24 hours, wouldn't be an issue at all.

[Scrapper]

Originally Posted by Boomerweps

There is a spray on brake cleaner available at auto parts stores. If you buy expensive pads or shoes and accidentally get some grease on them, you gonna throw them away?

The only answer to your question is a resounding Yes.


Once the pads or shoes are contaminated by grease they are junk. As others have said the oils from the grease is adsorbed by the pad/shoe material and they will never be safe to use. Spraying brake cleaner on the pad/shoe will not remove the oils. The cleaner is only for removing brake dust, dirt, and oil/grease from the metal parts.

When it comes to hydraulic brakes in your car or truck, brake fluid on the pads/shoes is contamination.