Not all trucks are created equal!

[X96mnn]

Seeing a lot of arguments, not just on this forum but on all forums!

Not all half tons, 3/4 tons or 1 tons are created equal! There are half ton configurations out there that have 2000pds of payload and 12000pds of towing capacity. Saying they are not safe may have some valid points but they are not illegal. This will continue to be true with some 3/4 ton and 1 ton trucks, based on their configurations you can add up to 8000pds of towing and 2000pds of cargo give or take!

The legal standpoint right now is a blurry at best. Love to see an actual lawyer or insurance claim adjuster weigh in on this topic. I understand fully the aspect of criminal negligence and vehicular manslaughter. I really do not think anyone towing a camper in this day and age would get hit with either. I do think, based on how the legal system in especially the U.S. And insurance companies, fault for such is coming but not seeing it at this time. Trying to argue that point at this time is fruitless with those who do not share the opinion.

Ultimately what the RV and automotive dealers tell us is worthless, they are there to make the sale 99% of the time. Only the person making the purchase can ultimately decide what is right and wrong for them!

I had the pleasure of talking to a person who hauls campers for a living. Asked him about towing over the recommended limits and he stated, " scares the living blank out of me". Stated he has seen a number of guys trying to tow over their limits to make a living and people have lost their life.

Their is extreamist on both ends of this argument. There is lots of mis information on both sides and only the person knows their comfort level.

I towed a 28ft trailer with my Jeep Liberty because the RV dealer and jeep dealer told me no issues. I can tell you from experience there was issues. I went and picked up a trailer for a friend, was 9500pds and 34ft long, his 1500 which was legal. They got pushed about 3 feet into on coming traffic and scared his wife to the point he had to stop. In some cases the person towing when asked would state " it tows great". In this case it was not great.

Ultimately only we are responsible and have our own comfort zone! Regulation is coming, in the past it was not a problem but today there is over 200% more RVs on the road than 2000. This will creat added attention from all parties.

In the mean time little can be said what is legally right and wrong!

[asquared]

To further make a point about not all trucks being equal, I had a 3/4 ton pick up with only 1500 lbs payload. It was great for my 7000 lb tt but definitely would not have tried it with my 12,300 lb fiver. I have had the misfortune of towing the 7000 lb tt with an Armada with a 9100 lb two capacity, told good to go by dealer. Oops it had an 800 lb payload. After white knuckle excursions at best and bring pushed down a 7% grade with properly utilizing the trailer brakes (prodigy p3 controller) and downshifting the engine we upgraded the TV. When shopping this time we carefully paired our combo looking at all specs of both rigs. IMHO this is the best way to do it. Not all are fortunate to do it that way though. I'm a big believer in understanding your weights, going to the cat scales to know a vehicles capabilities and then making sure the trailer purchase is within those capabilities. This is my comfort zone having had the bad experience towing outside of capabilities. YMMV.

[kandl]

Originally Posted by X96mnn

Not all half tons, 3/4 tons or 1 tons are created equal!

Never have been equal - probably never will be. That's why there's magic towing dust.

[Oaklevel]

And............ neither are we....... I always cringe when someone says I am comfortable with towing my 20K lb plus rig at 75 mph.... I'm bored if I go slower, it takes too long to get there........

Have you ever tried to stop when someone tries to pass you realizes they can't because there is traffic ahead and slams on their brakes and pulls in front of you instead of slowing gradually??? Happened to me on a two lane road years ago......... OR...... have traffic stopped & someone decides the traffic being stopped didn't apply to them so the nice empty left turn lane was theirs to travel down pulling their camper at a high rate of speed, when the mini van started pulling out it struck the pickup pulling the camper. The camper nearly lost it taking about 10 car lengths to stop. (Did I mention both lanes beside them in their direction were stopped)..... Damage to the mini van the pickup, the camper and several stopped cars minding their own business. They were less than 1/4 mile from the campground they were going to........ ruined vacation but at least no one was seriously injured ..........


I do not care what the tow vehicle and trailer is they just do not stop like cars or being solo........

[Big Bill]

x2 on TT brakes not being adaquate, My TT Has self adjustig that didnt adjust , i didnt know that until i lost half the TV brakes , before that the TV was doing the braking for both.

[j free]

If people are this paranoid then why did you buy an RV. I have never with 3 generations of law enforcement in my family ever heard of someone being convicted of a crime because of the weight of there RV being towed by there truck. If you drive like your at Daytona that's a different story but a normal accident get a grip. Like I said if your this paranoid then it's time to sell your RV.

[Flybob]

Originally Posted by Oaklevel

And............ neither are we....... I always cringe when someone says I am comfortable with towing my 20K lb plus rig at 75 mph.... I'm bored if I go slower, it takes too long to get there........

Have you ever tried to stop when someone tries to pass you realizes they can't because there is traffic ahead and slams on their brakes and pulls in front of you instead of slowing gradually??? Happened to me on a two lane road years ago......... OR...... have traffic stopped & someone decides the traffic being stopped didn't apply to them so the nice empty left turn lane was theirs to travel down pulling their camper at a high rate of speed, when the mini van started pulling out it struck the pickup pulling the camper. The camper nearly lost it taking about 10 car lengths to stop. (Did I mention both lanes beside them in their direction were stopped)..... Damage to the mini van the pickup, the camper and several stopped cars minding their own business. They were less than 1/4 mile from the campground they were going to........ ruined vacation but at least no one was seriously injured ..........


I do not care what the tow vehicle and trailer is they just do not stop like cars or being solo........

On the way home from picking brand new TT up from dealer on I95 just south of DC, I was in right lane doing 55. Traffic was heavy and noticed that fast lane ( 3rd lane) was stopped. A van with 3 young kids in the back was easily doing 70 when they suddenly noticed traffic in front of them was stopped. They shot across two lanes and cut in front of me with rear wheels locked up. Certainly glad I had the extra margin salesman told me I did not need.

[raytwntrvlr]

We decided after a couple of years in our Shadow Cruiser, that we wanted a different camper. Tried to convince myself that we could pull a fiver with our current TV but just could not make the numbers work out. Call me chicken but I want to be in control when I am pulling my RV. We could not justify getting a different TV so we just upgraded the TT.
BTW... when we went with the heavier TT, I upped my umbrella coverage. It protects me and others.
Funny thing the new TT is a ton heavier but pulls better going down the highway. Much less lurching, in fact nearly none, when passed by a big truck. My speed is 60.. no more and sometimes less.


Have fun out there and be safe. Mike

[mike.t]

Thanks for sharing your knowledge of criminal negligence and vehicular manslaughter. However as you said this is your opinion. I think most here wont respond and give it a MEH.

[transamz9]

Originally Posted by Flybob

On the way home from picking brand new TT up from dealer on I95 just south of DC, I was in right lane doing 55. Traffic was heavy and noticed that fast lane ( 3rd lane) was stopped. A van with 3 young kids in the back was easily doing 70 when they suddenly noticed traffic in front of them was stopped. They shot across two lanes and cut in front of me with rear wheels locked up. Certainly glad I had the extra margin salesman told me I did not need.

Was it the margin you have or the fact that you were driving to the conditions you were in? The truck and RV in most cases is not the dangerous thing whether over loaded or not.

It's funny how many people thing guns kill people and forks make them fat.

[f5moab]

Originally Posted by j free

If people are this paranoid then why did you buy an RV. I have never with 3 generations of law enforcement in my family ever heard of someone being convicted of a crime because of the weight of there RV being towed by there truck. If you drive like your at Daytona that's a different story but a normal accident get a grip. Like I said if your this paranoid then it's time to sell your RV.

A voice of reason! But it really seems like a lot of people like to sit back and complain about how other drivers drive; are they going five or ten miles faster than what they THINK are the ratings on the tires (hard to tell the type or rating of the tire as it goes by at 70mph); or if they might be overloaded, etc.

Are there people who overload? YES! Are there people who are driving too fast for the tires? YES! But it does not mean everyone that looks overloaded is overloaded and not everyone doing 75 with a trailer is using ST tires or that their ST tires are rated only for 65.

[goduc]

Harder to stop a maxed out truck and trailer than one that's at 80% or less. Why is that so hard to figure out. Just because the big 3 put 12,000lb tow ratings on a 1/2 ton doesn't mean it's as safe as the same truck towing 8-9000lbs. Too many variables and unknowns to always think everything will work out perfect. No ones being paranoid, just wanting to use some common sense. A good example is the last trip I was on. I came around a corner doing 57 mph. A 40' MH pulling an F150 pulled out in front of me. Anyone who's ever driven a big MH knows it takes forever to get going. Especially when turning across the hwy and starting up hill. The corner is a blind corner for anyone pulling out of that CG entrance. I had to hammer the brakes hard and could feel the ABS engaging. I'm 4000lbs under my trucks GCVWR. Had I been at max of 21,000 I may not have slowed enough to clear the F150. That's why I don't tow at max ratings. And yes my trailer brakes are in perfect shape since I just inspected them while doing a bearing repack a month ago. My last setup was a 2010 F150 7650 GVW. TT was 31' and 7300lbs. Truck was scaled at 7600lbs with all the gear and TT tongue weight. Max tow rating was 11,000+ or the F150. I can't imagine being in that same situation with the MH and towing with my F150 and 11,000 behind it.


Point is not about getting sued, it's about not being in an accident. I want to be able to control my trailer even if someone else is in the wrong. Having someone pull out in front of you causing a wreck doesn't justify speeding or towing over weight. I want to know that going thru an intersection and someone running a red light that I have done everything I could to try and prevent an accident. JMO but being overweight and not being able to stop in time because of that is irresponsible.

[X96mnn]

Originally Posted by mike.t

Thanks for sharing your knowledge of criminal negligence and vehicular manslaughter. However as you said this is your opinion. I think most here wont respond and give it a MEH.

I did not share an opinion on the topics, try reading before commenting it may make people give a MEH.

[vinmaker]

Am I missing something? It seems the OP is highlighting different towing capacities for different trucks within the same class (150, 250, etc.)

How does this equate to bad drivers?

[Oaklevel]

Originally Posted by f5moab

A voice of reason! But it really seems like a lot of people like to sit back and complain about how other drivers drive; are they going five or ten miles faster than what they THINK are the ratings on the tires (hard to tell the type or rating of the tire as it goes by at 70mph); or if they might be overloaded, etc.

Are there people who overload? YES! Are there people who are driving too fast for the tires? YES! But it does not mean everyone that looks overloaded is overloaded and not everyone doing 75 with a trailer is using ST tires or that their ST tires are rated only for 65.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I do not care what tires or tow vehicle someone has short of a Freightliner, anyone driving 75 MPH pulling a TT or 5th wheel will one day have an accident. Not if, when...... Just my opinion after pulling trailers, TT and 5th wheel for nearly 40 years. Been there, done that, have seen too much. Sorry just my opinion.......... hope never to see another fatal accident but I will it will happen too many people think they are invincible.

[aceinspp]

Best of all folks need to do home work and this applies to the type trailer your going to buy and then the TV you will need. Most sale folks will tell you anything to sell a camper. If you don't know then you should be asking question and getting Vehicle brochure and study. Yep to many folks out there driving way over loaded.

Then there are the weekly campers that travel 20 miles and tow trailer with anything they can use.

I've towed trailers for over 40 years and always had more tv than I needed. Safety is first in my book. Later RJD

[RubberNail]

I've hauled truck campers and towed 5th wheels, TT and hay trailers since the 70's. Use 1/2 tons, 3/4 tons and 1 ton DRWs, Fords, Chevys, GMCs and a couple of Dodges. Gas & Diesel. Here's my take:

Rule 1. Regardless of all the other rules, never tow or haul if the vehicle feels squirrelly or doesn't feel right. However, if it feels good, the other rules still apply.

Rule 2. Weigh your axles, empty and loaded. Haven't yet met anyone who guessed correctly. If you don't know for sure you are risking your life, your spouse, your children and grandchildren. It's cheap and it's easy. Just find a truck stop!

Rule 3. Don't drive anything that overloads the tires and/or rims. Regardless of all else, tire rated load is crucial. If you are close, upgrade the tires and don't go cheap. Baring a collision, tires are first thing to go.

Rule 4. Don't exceed the axle ratings or the GCWR. Most diesel 3/4 tons are the same running gear as their 1 ton counterparts - except springs, brakes and tires. I don't mind going over the GVWR as long as the axles/tires are within load rating and the combined tow and vehicle is within the GCWR.

Rule 5. Don't tow or haul what you can't stop. Test the brakes every time you start the engine. I've stopped for fuel and restarted only to find the brakes no longer work.

If doesn't matter whether the badge says it's 1/2, 3/4 or 1 ton. If you overload it you are putting lives at risk. If it's rated for your load, and you ACTUALLY KNOW YOUR LOAD, then rules 1 and 5 apply.

[Mrs Evans]

I did a little searching and I know it's somewhere around here, but I can't seem to find where the post is that gives instructions for which weights should be gathered, how to do so and how to use the information to determine where you're at. Goodness me, there are so many variables to figuring this stuff out it makes my head spin! Hoping someone with more experience with the forum can provide a link

EDIT: Nevermind! I found it! It's in the library

Library

[spock123]

I don't use rule rule 2,3,4,5


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[chicagoslick]

Everything concerning load and capacity is opinion or speculation unless verified. Weigh it and confirm it is within specification of the tow vehicle and the trailer.

Also, you do not need to build your own safety factor (50%-80%) margins in unless this makes you feel better!!! There is a reason there are specifications. The specifications are developed through testing by the manufacturer!!!

Unless you are an engineer and have specific education and training to make factual statements; you are stating opinion!!!