Overloaded 3/4 ton trucks

[frank4711]

Originally Posted by desuhu

When we purchased our 2003 Silverado HD 2500 Duramax/diesel, we did check the tow rating and it was rated to tow 22,500 combined weight, both truck and trailer loaded. We have a 37'5th wheel that weighed 12,900 empty weight and we have never had a problem towing it. We still have the truck, because who can possibly afford the new heavy duties, which are selling upwards of 80,000.

could never pay $80,000 for any truck ... Ram's a a little less $62,000 2500 same price as 3500 ... 2500=less payload 2400 vs 4200 for 3500 and less towing ... GVWR 2500 10,000 ... GVWR 3500 11,000 ..... both are 6.7L Cummins ... same level BigHorn 6.4 bed ... Crew Cab ... 4x4 .... 3500 is SRW

[BigH]

Originally Posted by DreiHunde

One of the guys I work with just bought a 2020 Silverado 2500 4x4 with High Country package and the GVWR is over 11,000 too....I think it was 11,460 but need to confirm it again before I state it for fact.

But either way it's more proof than 10K max for that class of truck was mandated and not mechanical.

Proof would be someone verifying all the components (part numbers) are the same between 2500 and 3500 series. I'd be willing to bet those part numbers are identical for year 2020 in GM HD trucks with GVWR ratings above 10k (important distinction on the 10k+ part) but what it proves it that GM is putting 2500 trucks into the class III category for 2020.

The facts are that over the last decade (and beyond) both Ford and GM have used different axles with different ratings (different part numbers) within the same 2500 series truck. Maybe Ram too...but I can't state that as fact.

Originally Posted by strgrazr

Ratings can be overstated by manufacturers especially for towing,....

Ratings are determined using SAE J2807...the manufacturers are no longer 'wing'n' it.

: SAE J2807 Tow Tests - The Standard

[timfromma]

Without seeing the door sticker and weighing their set up, you can't assume that anyone is overweight. My 3/4 ton has 2400lbs of payload capacity which is more than sufficient to haul a 10,000lb TT.

[Keithfirefighter]

Originally Posted by alvinmb

Agree with all your comments. I chose 3/4 over 1 ton for a less harsh ride, we realistically tow 3-4 times a year going on 4 day trips at this time with our work schedules, similarly equipped 1 ton was $3k more plus I would want the Aisin only if I was going to go 1 ton, less cost to register here in CA. Our current bumper pull is around 7000lbs when we go out, so no problem for now. Just need to plan properly for the next purchase. The payload on my truck now is 2029 lbs.

WOW ! Not sure what year or make your truck is but i have a 16 Ram 3500 Mega Cab and my payload is 4130lbs that is 2100lbs over yours. You are gonna have a hard time finding a 5th wheel camper that is only going to have a little over a 1000lbs of pin weight because remember out of that 2029lbs of payload you have you have to subtract everyone and everything you put in your truck including dogs, coolers, hitch and firewood in the bed. Most bigger 5th wheels have over 2000lbs pin weight. Will a 3/4 ton pull it yes but it will be over weight! I have to laugh at people who buy 3/4 ton trucks then go out n buy a 44 ' triple axle trailer with 3600lbs pin weight and say it pulls like its not back there! But the only thing that has to happen is to get into an accident with someone getting hurt or killed and they could be in some serious trouble. I have also seen DOT(Department of Transportation) here in Pa pulling trucks over pulling big 5th wheel campers. So they are starting to tighten up a bit !! Good luck in your camper hunt and try to be as safe as possible!!!!

[Bren62]

I take my trucks max rating, lower it by 10% and that establishes my personal maximum for safety. I have air bags for improved ride height and truck attitude but not for increased weight. After all this I hit the weigh scales to confirm my set up. I feel at 100% of maximum you have very little safety margins.

[strgrazr]

There is one bad thing about having a properly loaded truck with extra capacity and stability. Now my wife wants to drive all the time because towing is a pleasure.
Dam the bad luck. Now I get sleep, play movies and generally feel great after a long day of travelling!!! LOL

[Cowracer]

Originally Posted by Bren62

I take my trucks max rating, lower it by 10% and that establishes my personal maximum for safety. I have air bags for improved ride height and truck attitude but not for increased weight. After all this I hit the weigh scales to confirm my set up. I feel at 100% of maximum you have very little safety margins.

I don't think anyone is arguing that point. The argument revolves around the which "maximum" to use. The one decided on by engineers through rigorous testing and year of experience (and with a sizeable safety margin built-in) , or the artificial one set by a bureaucrat who had to draw a line somewhere?

Tim

[Nastynotchback1]

Originally Posted by BigH

10,000 may be the maximum GVWR for 3/4ton but not all 3/4 tons are stickered to 10,000lbs. Both Ford and GM (maybe Ram I just don't know that one to be fact) have used different axles in 3/4ton trim compared to 1ton along with different spring rates at 9,500 GVWR. However, things might be changing...a buddy of mine is shopping for 3/4ton trucks and said every 2020 3/4ton Chevy he looked at had a 10,000 GVWR.

GM 3/4 and 1Ton SRW have the same rear axle. Only a leaf spring difference.

[Resurrected1]

I was one of "those".

My '16 GMC 2500HD had a payload capacity of 2189 lbs.
My '19 F350 DRW has a payload capacity of 5336 lbs.

The pin weight of my trailer/&hitch is over 3400 lbs.

I never "felt" uncomfortable/unsafe while towing with the 2500, because ignorance is bliss and I didn't know any better (completely my fault). Luckily, I only towed it a few hundred miles before parking it & living in it full time.

I'll say, though, that towing with the DRW is a night & day difference. The stability improved my overall confidence while towing. Sure the Ford has more HP & Torque that the GMC, but it was more than that. Psychologically, knowing that I am within my limits, with room to spare, makes me feel more at ease. I don't know how else to describe it.

[67L48]

Originally Posted by frank4711

could never pay $80,000 for any truck [...]

Few do. People love talking about how new trucks cost $80K. While they certainly can cost that much, most don't. The vast majority of new SRW truck purchases are going to land in the $50 - $65K range. That's still a ton of money, but it's not close to $80K.

People always want to use hyperbole when talking about the outrageous expense of something. It's not necessary. Just call it what it is. People will find their points are still valid, and those people avoid weakening the rest of their arguments from lost credibility due to overblown statements.

[BigH]

Originally Posted by Nastynotchback1

GM 3/4 and 1Ton SRW have the same rear axle. Only a leaf spring difference.

Some 3/4tons have the same axles as the 1ton but not ALL... your statement is absolutely false. -And GM isn't alone.

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...6&&FORM=VRDGAR

[jj95]

Originally Posted by DreiHunde

One of the guys I work with just bought a 2020 Silverado 2500 4x4 with High Country package and the GVWR is over 11,000 too....I think it was 11,460 but need to confirm it again before I state it for fact.

But either way it's more proof than 10K max for that class of truck was mandated and not mechanical.

I just looked online, and compared the 2020 Silverado 2500 (GVWR=11,350) to the 2019 Silverado 3500, which had a GVWR of 11,500.

Everything gets bigger and better over time, I am sure you could make similar comparisons between 1/2 tons and 3/4 tons over the years. I just thought it was pretty interesting.

[Cowracer]

Originally Posted by jj95

I just looked online, and compared the 2020 Silverado 2500 (GVWR=11,350) to the 2019 Silverado 3500, which had a GVWR of 11,500.

Everything gets bigger and better over time, I am sure you could make similar comparisons between 1/2 tons and 3/4 tons over the years. I just thought it was pretty interesting.

GM only bumped up the GVWR because they offer an optional kit to make the truck a GVWR 10,000 pounds max one, to keep it in the class 2 rating for commercial use. Look up the C7A RPO (Regular production office) code. The entirety of the C7A kit is a sticker on the door jamb listing a 10k GVWR instead of the 11.5 one.

I'll bet a large amount of my money that Ram and Ford will be doing the same thing next year. You will then see GVWR wars as they all try for the top rating so they can tout it in their ads.

Tim

[moose074]

Originally Posted by BigH

Proof would be someone verifying all the components (part numbers) are the same between 2500 and 3500 series. I'd be willing to bet those part numbers are identical for year 2020 in GM HD trucks with GVWR ratings above 10k (important distinction on the 10k+ part) but what it proves it that GM is putting 2500 trucks into the class III category for 2020.



The facts are that over the last decade (and beyond) both Ford and GM have used different axles with different ratings (different part numbers) within the same 2500 series truck. Maybe Ram too...but I can't state that as fact.





Ratings are determined using SAE J2807...the manufacturers are no longer 'wing'n' it.



: SAE J2807 Tow Tests - The Standard

Correct car companies agreed to the spec. Don’t believe it is a government mandate. I also believe that nothing says you can’t handicap the numbers to meet desired sales, after all different ratings prompts the sales of different trucks

[alvinmb]

Originally Posted by Keithfirefighter

WOW ! Not sure what year or make your truck is but i have a 16 Ram 3500 Mega Cab and my payload is 4130lbs that is 2100lbs over yours. You are gonna have a hard time finding a 5th wheel camper that is only going to have a little over a 1000lbs of pin weight because remember out of that 2029lbs of payload you have you have to subtract everyone and everything you put in your truck including dogs, coolers, hitch and firewood in the bed. Most bigger 5th wheels have over 2000lbs pin weight. Will a 3/4 ton pull it yes but it will be over weight! I have to laugh at people who buy 3/4 ton trucks then go out n buy a 44 ' triple axle trailer with 3600lbs pin weight and say it pulls like its not back there! But the only thing that has to happen is to get into an accident with someone getting hurt or killed and they could be in some serious trouble. I have also seen DOT(Department of Transportation) here in Pa pulling trucks over pulling big 5th wheel campers. So they are starting to tighten up a bit !! Good luck in your camper hunt and try to be as safe as possible!!!!

My truck is the Laramie Longhorn edition. The 3500 do have a lot more payload. I have found a few 37-42ft fifth wheels with pin weight of 1200-1700 that have floorplans we like. We will probably be right at max, we do pack light. Time will tell, for now will enjoy towing my Apex 300bhs, should be a dream to tow..nothing back there right

[tuckerdog1]

My brother has a 2015 Ram diesel SRW longbed 3500. I have a 2016 Ram diesel SRW longbed 2500. His rides quite a bit stiffer than mine. I do have payload envy though.

[67L48]

Originally Posted by tuckerdog1

My brother has a 2015 Ram diesel SRW longbed 3500. I have a 2016 Ram diesel SRW longbed 2500. His rides quite a bit stiffer than mine. I do have payload envy though.

And therein lies the problem with this entire debate.

The argument positioned above by many is that 3/4 ton and 1 ton are the same. The capabilities and ratings are an academic exercise driven by some clerical/marketing push. Whatever the 1 ton can do, the 3/4 can do, too. They're the same truck (except for one insignificant leaf in the rear, e.g.).

But, if they truly drive differently, if the 1 ton is significantly stiffer, and if the driving, handling characteristics are significantly different between 3/4 ton and 1 ton, then guess what: they're not the same truck. If they're not the same, then they're not the same. That previous argument now falls apart. If they're not the same, then it's a poor conclusion that the 3/4 ton can do whatever the 1 ton can do. The capabilities and ratings are no longer academic ... they're at least somewhat based on the differences in the platforms.

People can't have it both ways. People can't have them be the same truck/platform *and* have them drive/handle/behave differently.

I'm not sure where it lands. I generally find that the truth is somewhere in the middle. Does the 1 ton have 1,500 lbs more capacity? Probably not. Does the 1 ton have 0 lbs more capacity; is the 3/4 ton exactly as capable as the 1 ton? Probably not. Where is the needle landing in that spectrum? I have no idea.

[richp]

Hi,

As often is the case, I risk exposing my ignorance with a question, but here goes. Hopefully this is closely enough related to the original topic...

With regard to capacity of a 3/4 ton truck, if the door sticker says GVW of 10,000# and the axle ratings total 12,200#, which number is the actual determining factor when it comes to some LE officer evaluating whether you are legally (as opposed to functionally) overloaded?

Thanks in advance.

Rich Phillips

[BigH]

Originally Posted by richp

Hi,

As often is the case, I risk exposing my ignorance with a question, but here goes. Hopefully this is closely enough related to the original topic...

With regard to capacity of a 3/4 ton truck, if the door sticker says GVW of 10,000# and the axle ratings total 12,200#, which number is the actual determining factor when it comes to some LE officer evaluating whether you are legally (as opposed to functionally) overloaded?

Thanks in advance.

Rich Phillips

Rich,

Are you stir'n the pot?

My friend is a state trooper and I asked him about what happens with when he pulls over vehicles that are overloaded or something related. His answer was something about if it looks potentially hazardous he would pull them over and call the 'commercial vehicle enforcement guy' to come weigh the vehicle with portable scales. He really didn't know anything related to GVWR...his concern was if it looks bad, something should be done.

He did say that if the vehicle was overloaded it wasn't going anywhere until the issue was corrected and that there could be multiple citations.

I know that doesn't answer your question directly but I seriously doubt the commercial vehicle inspector guy is going to climb under the truck and check out the axles...he's going to look at the plate on the door jam and do some math from the portable scales. -That being said...a 3/4 ton with air bags and 1500+ over on payload isn't going to look like a hot mess so I doubt any LEO would give it a passing thought.

[richp]

Hi BigH,

No pot stirring intended. In my view this sort of gets to the heart of the matter for me.

From the door sticker, my new to me 2019 Duramax crew cab truck is categorized at 10k#. On that same sticker, my axles are rated at 12.2k#. The other day, my truck was 8.4k# on a Cat scale with a full fuel load and me in the seat. My fiver's pin weight, as measured when I had my old truck is about 2,500 IIRC; haven't got it on a scale yet with the new truck.

Boiling it down. Going by the 10k# number, I am over. Going by the axle capacities, I am safely under.

I grant that LE discretion can enter into such things. My question is which number (10k or 12.2k) would be the one I likely would be held to under most on-the-road enforcement regimes?

Rich Phillips