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Old 09-22-2019, 01:57 AM   #1
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Overloaded 3/4 ton trucks

Just curious to see how many people here that are towing with 3/4 diesel trucks are ok with being over payload on the hitch weight for their fifth wheels? I think most 3/4 tons I see on the road with huge fifth wheels are probably over max? I chose not to go 3500 for personal reasons so I will have to be careful when I am ready to get a fifth wheel.
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Old 09-22-2019, 05:20 AM   #2
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Just curious to see how many people here that are towing with 3/4 diesel trucks are ok with being over payload on the hitch weight for their fifth wheels? I think most 3/4 tons I see on the road with huge fifth wheels are probably over max? I chose not to go 3500 for personal reasons so I will have to be careful when I am ready to get a fifth wheel.
What personal reason is so powerful to make one decide a 1ton srw is a no-go compared to a 3/4ton and then look to justify being overweight?

Some keyboard warrior will come on here and tell you the only difference between 3/4 and 1ton srw is the leaf springs...and they MAY be right for some model, for some manufacturers, for some years. The reality is there can be differences between 3/4ton trucks and srw 1tons. -Some models for some years use different rear axles with different ratings. Even read some 'expert' modifiers on here saying some of the frames are different. I don't know about the frames for the HD trucks but it is absolutely true for some 1/2tons...Ford has three different frame thicknesses. Chevy used to have two.

Some folks are willing to do 'things' based on what the other lemmings are doing...I'm not among them. I suggest you read the manual for your truck to make sure you stay within the tow rating and look at the yellow sticker on the door jam of your truck to find the maximum payload number. Then find a trailer that fits into the numbers.

Good luck.
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Old 09-22-2019, 09:00 AM   #3
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What personal reason is so powerful to make one decide a 1ton srw is a no-go compared to a 3/4ton and then look to justify being overweight?
I doubt many intentionally start out doing this. Most buyers probably bought a 3/4 ton without realizing the impact the diesel weight has on the payload compared to the typical gasser they probably previously owned. They eventually found out through forums like this. Also, most people buy off the lot and few dealers stock a selection of 1 tons. When I was shopping the ratio was about 25:1 of 3/4 ton to 1 ton.
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Old 09-22-2019, 10:36 AM   #4
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....Some folks are willing to do 'things' based on what the other lemmings are doing...I'm not among them. I suggest you read the manual for your truck to make sure you stay within the tow rating and look at the yellow sticker on the door jam of your truck to find the maximum payload number. Then find a trailer that fits into the numbers.

Good luck.
Agreed 100%!!!

This isn't just a question specific to 3/4 ton diesels. The real question is: Why not have enough truck for your bumper pull trailer, 5th wheel or camper?

2 examples I've seen this summer that really stood out as a "WTF are they doing":

1. 1/2 ton truck (top of the line=minimal payload) with a family of 5 (2 parents, 3 teens) pulling a 33' bunkhouse. Over on at least GVWR, RGAWR and payload. Per the owner, "Its got XX engine and a tow rating of (the absolute max listed by the manufacturer)"

2. 2008 3/4 ton diesel crewcab longbed with a Lance 1172 camper on the back. The camper's wet weight was 4628 plus whatever the owner had loaded. That truck looked sketchy just sitting parked at the campground. Per the owner, "Had to step up to 19.5" wheels and G rated commercial tires cause I kept blowing the stock ones out"

So, the other question should be: What makes anyone so righteous to justify overloading their vehicle?
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Old 09-22-2019, 10:47 AM   #5
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Agree with all your comments. I chose 3/4 over 1 ton for a less harsh ride, we realistically tow 3-4 times a year going on 4 day trips at this time with our work schedules, similarly equipped 1 ton was $3k more plus I would want the Aisin only if I was going to go 1 ton, less cost to register here in CA. Our current bumper pull is around 7000lbs when we go out, so no problem for now. Just need to plan properly for the next purchase. The payload on my truck now is 2029 lbs.
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Old 09-22-2019, 01:10 PM   #6
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Tires and axles.
Tires and axles........
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Old 09-22-2019, 01:16 PM   #7
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Agree with all your comments. I chose 3/4 over 1 ton for a less harsh ride, we realistically tow 3-4 times a year going on 4 day trips at this time with our work schedules, similarly equipped 1 ton was $3k more plus I would want the Aisin only if I was going to go 1 ton, less cost to register here in CA. Our current bumper pull is around 7000lbs when we go out, so no problem for now. Just need to plan properly for the next purchase. The payload on my truck now is 2029 lbs.
With a Ford F 250 and F 350 both with Diesel and Snow Plow prep the ride is exactly the same. Different rear springs and of course 1200 lbs more CCC on the F 350 too. No Difference in Ride.

Whoever told you that was wrong.
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Old 09-22-2019, 01:25 PM   #8
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F250 and F350 ride the same. I have both in 2016 models. The 2019 f350 dually is slightly harder but only noticed on speed bumps due to lower psi. Old wives still telling tales.
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Old 09-22-2019, 01:51 PM   #9
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Had an 04 Chevy 4500 sport chassis with the GM Duramax and Allison 6 speed. All the bells and whistles. Just did not fit what we wanted to pull and where. Traded for the current truck in my signature almost 7 years ago and didn't look back. Rather have too much than not enough truck.

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Old 09-22-2019, 02:02 PM   #10
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Thx to Capt John and B and B

Thx to these 2 for telling the truth exactly and not a know it all who really only wants to ridicule someone and does not know whereof he speaks. I am not going into the argument as I have already researched this very well and I do have a 16 F 250 and do know whereof I speak. Listen to Capt John and B and B, they do know and are well aware of what the real story is.
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Old 09-22-2019, 02:23 PM   #11
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ALL 3/4 ton truck have a gvwr of 10k for bureaucratic reasons, not engineering ones. Payload is then 10k minus curb weight. Axle weight ratings are the actual design limits.

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Old 09-22-2019, 02:44 PM   #12
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ALL 3/4 ton truck have a gvwr of 10k for bureaucratic reasons, not engineering ones. Payload is then 10k minus curb weight. Axle weight ratings are the actual design limits.

Tim
10,000 may be the maximum GVWR for 3/4ton but not all 3/4 tons are stickered to 10,000lbs. Both Ford and GM (maybe Ram I just don't know that one to be fact) have used different axles in 3/4ton trim compared to 1ton along with different spring rates at 9,500 GVWR. However, things might be changing...a buddy of mine is shopping for 3/4ton trucks and said every 2020 3/4ton Chevy he looked at had a 10,000 GVWR.
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Old 09-22-2019, 03:45 PM   #13
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This might be of interest here. These numbers are for a 2020 GMC Denali crew cab 4X4 gas with OEM puck hitch mount system and sun roof.

The underbed cross members associated with the OEM puck hitch mount system eat into the payload, but on the other hand, that's weight I don't have to add myself to support a hitch, so effectively my payload is a bit higher than shown.

Interestingly the dealer showed me numbers that were quite different from these. Seems you don't know what you are going to get until you have it. From his numbers I was expecting about 350 lb more payload.

Also interestingly, the dealer's numbers showed the 20" wheels adding 200 lbs to the GVWR and about 200 lbs to the payload (and a bit more than 200 lb to the rear axle rating).

Also interesting is the max gooseneck tongue weight. I presume this applies to a fifth wheel as well.

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Old 09-22-2019, 04:18 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Hclarkx View Post
This might be of interest here. These numbers are for a 2020 GMC Denali crew cab 4X4 gas with OEM puck hitch mount system and sun roof.

The underbed cross members associated with the OEM puck hitch mount system eat into the payload, but on the other hand, that's weight I don't have to add myself to support a hitch, so effectively my payload is a bit higher than shown.

Interestingly the dealer showed me numbers that were quite different from these. Seems you don't know what you are going to get until you have it. From his numbers I was expecting about 350 lb more payload.

Also interestingly, the dealer's numbers showed the 20" wheels adding 200 lbs to the GVWR and about 200 lbs to the payload (and a bit more than 200 lb to the rear axle rating).

Also interesting is the max gooseneck tongue weight. I presume this applies to a fifth wheel as well.

Attachment 215577

Attachment 215578
So...10650GVWR.
Maybe I missed it, is this a 3/4ton?

Thanks for the post.
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Old 09-22-2019, 04:37 PM   #15
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10,000 may be the maximum GVWR for 3/4ton but not all 3/4 tons are stickered to 10,000lbs. Both Ford and GM (maybe Ram I just don't know that one to be fact) have used different axles in 3/4ton trim compared to 1ton along with different spring rates at 9,500 GVWR. However, things might be changing...a buddy of mine is shopping for 3/4ton trucks and said every 2020 3/4ton Chevy he looked at had a 10,000 GVWR.
Itís a regional thing. Donít focus on the 10k, but depending on area, it might be 10k on the nose, or 9900lbs or even less perhaps. The fact is, 3/4 tons are derated (funny note: iPhone wanted to correct to Deranged) trucks. Iím NOT saying that means you can ignore the numbers.
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Old 09-22-2019, 04:58 PM   #16
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Itís a regional thing. Donít focus on the 10k, but depending on area, it might be 10k on the nose, or 9900lbs or even less perhaps. The fact is, 3/4 tons are derated (funny note: iPhone wanted to correct to Deranged) trucks. Iím NOT saying that means you can ignore the numbers.
I hear what you're saying and I agree but I don't care for the term de-rated (or deranged unless someone is calling me deranged).

For some reason on this forum I've seen folks say that a 3/4 ton is the same as a 1 ton srw minus the leaf springs/tires and while this is true in some cases it is not always true.
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Old 09-22-2019, 05:06 PM   #17
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It’s a regional thing. Don’t focus on the 10k, but depending on area, it might be 10k on the nose, or 9900lbs or even less perhaps. The fact is, 3/4 tons are derated (funny note: iPhone wanted to correct to Deranged) trucks. I’m NOT saying that means you can ignore the numbers.
10,000k GVWR is a class 2 truck according to DOT. 10,0001 and up is a class 3( or higher), meaning in commercial use, you must display a USDOT number, and your drivers fall under DOT rules. It does not matter what its real capacity is, its what the manufacturer "rates" it at. They all do 10,000k (or less) because they would loose commercial sales for their 250/2500 trucks if customers had to comply with the DOT rules. The local lawn care company or carpenter would go somewhere else for a class 2 truck.

9900lbs is a Canadian thing.

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Old 09-22-2019, 05:06 PM   #18
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I hear what you're saying and I agree but I don't care for the term de-rated (or deranged unless someone is calling me deranged).

For some reason on this forum I've seen folks say that a 3/4 ton is the same as a 1 ton srw minus the leaf springs/tires and while this is true in some cases it is not always true.
Agreed. I believe my axle weight ratings are very close (500lbs maybe?) to a 3500 but I lose way less than that in GVWR. Completely different rear axle suspension setup than a 3500 (factory rear air bags).
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Old 09-22-2019, 05:09 PM   #19
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10,000k GVWR is a class 2 truck according to DOT. 10,0001 and up is a class 3( or higher), meaning in commercial use, you must display a USDOT number, and your drivers fall under DOT rules. It does not matter what its real capacity is, its what the manufacturer "rates" it at. They all do 10,000k (or less) because they would loose commercial sales for their 250/2500 trucks if customers had to comply with the DOT rules. The local lawn care company or carpenter would go somewhere else for a class 2 truck.

9900lbs is a Canadian thing.

Tim
I’m well aware what the reason is. I quoted BigH talking about different 3/4 ton ratings so my response started with - it’s a regional thing. And the 9900lbs is not a Canadian wide thing.
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Old 09-22-2019, 05:13 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Hclarkx View Post
This might be of interest here. These numbers are for a 2020 GMC Denali crew cab 4X4 gas with OEM puck hitch mount system and sun roof.

The underbed cross members associated with the OEM puck hitch mount system eat into the payload, but on the other hand, that's weight I don't have to add myself to support a hitch, so effectively my payload is a bit higher than shown.

Interestingly the dealer showed me numbers that were quite different from these. Seems you don't know what you are going to get until you have it. From his numbers I was expecting about 350 lb more payload.

Also interestingly, the dealer's numbers showed the 20" wheels adding 200 lbs to the GVWR and about 200 lbs to the payload (and a bit more than 200 lb to the rear axle rating).

Also interesting is the max gooseneck tongue weight. I presume this applies to a fifth wheel as well.

Attachment 215577

Attachment 215578
If you ordered the same truck with a C7A RPO code, you would get EXACTLY the same truck with a 10K GVWR sticker. It seems GM is starting to realize that they need to give true GVWR for non-commercial customers.

Tim
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