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Old 03-31-2013, 12:33 AM   #21
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ok I can post from experience here. I started with an 04 Nissan Armada (1/2 ton SUV) that was rated to tow 9100 lbs and a receiver rating of 910 lbs. The TT we bought has a dry weight of 5700 lbs, dry tongue weight of 810 lbs and gvwr of 7700 lbs. Should be plenty of TV right? Wrong. Once 2 adults, 1 very small child, and a 70 lb dog were put in the armada, I had an available payload of 800 lbs.

now as to what happens when towing overloaded? here is my story. We tried lots of band aid fixes (ie E rated tires, Reese dual cam adjustments until we were blue in the face, prodigy P3 brake controller etc). handling was never good. I had towed horse trailers since I was 16 yrs old so I know what it should feel like. The armada can tow a 5000 lb 2 horse trailer like its not even back there. Not so with a camping trailer that weighs in at 7000 lbs loaded and 30 ft long with a tongue weight of approximately 1000 lbs. I had a lot of tail wagging the dog sensation, front end skating on ice feeling. cars, SUVs and semis passing me all pushed and pulled my rig all over the road. Next came towing in the mountains of NC and VA. We barely made it up a 7% grade in first gear without overheating the engine/transmission. Coming home down that major highway 7% grade was do-able but not fun. Towing through rockfish gap in VA we had to go through a 7% grade on a twisting 2 lane road. We made it up the mountain without overheating but were crawling by the top. Coming home is where the trouble started. We almost didn't make it down the mountain. the trailer pushed the truck down the mountain despite properly adjusted brakes, a good brake controller, gearing down etc. That was it. I was done. No more trips to the mountains without a new truck. Enter the 09 F250 6.4L power stroke diesel. Love this truck. Tows my TT like a dream. We had a chance to take that same road through rockfish gap with the diesel. no problems at all. I had to touch my brakes 1 time, the engine did the rest. No more being pushed by everything that passes me. yes I still feel a semi passing me but it doesn't feel dangerous anymore. I can tow this rig until the cows come home.

now lets look at some numbers on the 3/4 ton diesel. After weighing it at a local scale, I have discovered that the numbers suck on this truck. As relative newbies we learned a hard lesson here. We thought a diesel can tow anything (and RV dealerships still try to tell us that). that assumption is incorrect. Our F250 has a long bed, quad cab (crew cab) and 4x4. it tows a 7000 lb trailer beautifully but we can't get the sabre 5er we want because the pin weight is too high. how do we know this? Weights of the truck loaded with gear and passengers are as follows : front axle is 5200 lbs, rear axle is 3260, gross weight (rear axle plus front axle) is 8460 lbs. The gvwr is 10000 lbs. The front gawr (gross axle weight rating) is 5600 lbs the rear gawr is 6100 lbs. taking the gvwr of 10,000 lbs and subtracting the loaded weight of 8460 lbs gives an available payload of 1540 lbs. The GCWR is 23000 lbs giving an adjusted tow capacity of 14540 lbs (gcwr- loaded truck weight).

in this truck I am limited by both payload and rear axle weight rating (rawr). the max TT this truck should be hauling would have a loaded tongue weight of 10000 lbs (15% of 10000 lbs gives tongue weight of 1500 lbs, 13% of 10000 lbs gives tongue weight of 1300 lbs.). this truck has a max rawr of 6100 lbs. 6100 lbs-3260 lbs gives an available 2840 lbs for pin weight. 3260 +2840 will put me at max RAWR and over my payload. to stay within my payload I would only be able to handle about a 7500 lb 5er (giving 20% pin weight). if I ignore payload and stay within rawr then I'm limited to a 5er that is 13000 lbs loaded (20% pin weight of 2600 lbs). this is all very disappointing. we had to decide to push the new 5er back instead of trading the truck in for a more capable tow vehicle. hope this helps someone else out.
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Old 03-31-2013, 02:35 AM   #22
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yup...im in a 2012 f250 with a bumper pull and a 10k gvwr that i decided to option out to the max , so im pretty topped out with my trailer......thats why i scratch my head when guys with 1/2 tons say the are towing the same trailer and are well under weight........they must not have wifes and kids that come along on the trips....LOL
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Old 03-31-2013, 02:41 AM   #23
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oh...and my reality is taht im probably gonna have to by an f450 dually to tow the 5er we WANT.....and just lift my 250 the 12 inches that i wanted to make it look cool to be my daily driver...lol....
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Old 03-31-2013, 09:24 AM   #24
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Wow. And I was worried about buying a pop-up over 2,000 pounds!
Do you guys have pics anywhere of these beasts? They won't even issue a license plate for trailers that big in Korea.
Then again, with diesel at $6.50+ and gas well over $8, not too many could afford one here...
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Old 03-31-2013, 09:36 AM   #25
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wow. And i was worried about buying a pop-up over 2,000 pounds!
Do you guys have pics anywhere of these beasts? They won't even issue a license plate for trailers that big in korea.
Then again, with diesel at $6.50+ and gas well over $8, not too many could afford one here...


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Old 03-31-2013, 10:01 AM   #26
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Over the years I have found that car dealers & RV dealers will tell you anything............

It is on us the owners / drivers to be aware & find out want we are driving & towing down the road.............

We had a conversion van in the 80s that we pulled a 22' Terry With ..........guess what we were way over on everything & found out the hard way with trans issues ...... The Vans GVW alone was something close to 6200 lbs... on the scale with no one in it it weighed 6100 lbs It was over weight with just a driver.

Today we have a 35.5' toyhauler I see the same trailer being pulled by 3/4 ton trucks & I cringe.......... It has a pin weight of about 3000 lbs depending on how it is loaded .... Empty the advertised empty weight was 9200 lbs it came in at over 9600 lbs... 14,500 gross.......... My truck Gross Weight rated at just under 4400 lbs / I bought used but one reason I don't pay extra for extras added to trucks (Long story) / but one thing some rocket scientist took out 1/2 the leaf springs probably to improve the ride reducing it to who knows what GVW.... a donor truck now has them back before I got the new 5th wheel....... Alot of people think duellys can pull anything....
I am running under my capacities but still feel that there is not alot of wiggle room...........

Having said all that I personally worry more about the RVs out there that think they can drive their RV like they do their car........ Whole other topic

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Old 03-31-2013, 10:07 AM   #27
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Thanks for posting the pic of your rig. It's nice... I feel so puny now, though.

I keep seeing GCWR, RAWR, GVWR (I know what this is, I think). What do they mean? Is there a thread on this subject?

Here's ours. It's comically small compared to everyone's.

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Old 03-31-2013, 10:10 AM   #28
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It would appear in some cases your trailer weight could be limited by the available payload and not the rated towing capacity.

Got it. All clear as mud now...
I think that this is probably most of the time. Payload tends to be the limiting factor.
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Old 03-31-2013, 10:28 AM   #29
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Dang turbs you were pulling that with a 6.0 before. I have a 2500hd work truck that has the six speed auto and its a turd with a light load. My tundra could run circles around it. Couldn't imagine putting a 5er on the back of it that big.
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Old 03-31-2013, 10:31 AM   #30
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Thanks for posting the pic of your rig. It's nice... I feel so puny now, though.
Here's ours. It's comically small compared to everyone's.
Not so. A lot of us kept our pop ups after getting our larger units. I keep mine for "camping." My TT is for "touring." The pop up is why I have a 4WD Tundra. I tow it across cow pastures and down forest trails to get to good fishing spots. I have two trips planned for April, both in the Pup.

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