Payload Fudge Factor

[irishtom29]

I'm wondering about the practical effects of overloading my truck's payload by 200-300 pounds.

I have an F-150 crewcab, ecoboost, max tow package with a 1317 pound payload. I've been looking at Flagstaff micro lite trailers that yellow sticker in the 4000-4500 pound range. So I calculate that when all is accounted for I'll be very close to, or with some models, somewhat over the truck's payload.

Now online I see folks reporting good results with setups that I figure must be over the TV's payload. And on a Canadian website I've seen a column by a very experienced fella who pulls fairly heavy trailers with a Taurus SHO and other automobiles; this guy seems to know his business.
Can-Am RV :: Hitch Hints


This makes me think the payload capacities, with regards to pulling trailers anyway, may be rated quite conservatively. Any thoughts and experiences are solicited.

[asquared]

If the yellow sticker is 4500 then you are probably looking at 5500-6000 lbs loaded based on averages. Ideal tongue weight is 13-15% of loaded tt weight. 15% of 6000 lbs gives a 900 lb tongue weight and allows you 400 lbs for family, pets and gear. If you need more than 400 lbs then look at the lighter trailers and load light. While they say there is a safety margin built in, I have towed my old tt over my old SUVs payload. It was not fun.. I got pushed and pulled all over the road (lots of tail wagging the dog). The final straw came when I didn't have enough truck to control the tt coming down a 7% grade in the VA mountains. I will never tow over limits again. Others will tell you it's fine, based on my experience, I wouldn't recommend towing over limits. I have also heard that if you get into an accident towing over limits and insurance finds out, then they may not cover you. In the end it boils down To what you feel comfortable doing, for me I'm not willing to risk my family's safety.

[goduc]

I tow over by 200lbs. No biggie for me as I have a 2500 which is the same exact truck as a 3500 except for the rear spring pack. Your F150 is limited by design. What model do you have? Lariat, Platinum? With Max Tow you should have a 7650-7700 GVW IIRC. So your truck must really be loaded with trim to have that low of a payload. If you have 20" tires then switching to a different size could help. Sometimes payload goes down with the bigger bling wheels. Have you checked to see what other wheel sizes are available and how they change weight ratings. As an example I read about an F250 diesels King Ranch and it only had a 1972lb payload rating. They attributed it to the 20" tires.

[acadianbob]

There will always be those who overload their trucks; and then give you the OK to overload yours. If that is what you are seeking, you will get it. But I wouldn't risk my family and others on the highway by doing it.

[irishtom29]

Originally Posted by goduc

What model do you have? Lariat, Platinum? With Max Tow you should have a 7650-7700 GVW IIRC. So your truck must really be loaded with trim to have that low of a payload.

XLT, not especially loaded. It's a 4x4 with the off road package, that adds the weight of the skid plates which subtract from the payload. 18" wheels.

[Dodge Guy]

I wouldn`t be concerned with a few hundred pounds. now if you get near 400 or more I would start worrying.

From personal experience you will be just fine.

[dustman_stx]

I have a very similar setup, but without MaxTow. 2013 F150 SCrew, XLT, 4x4, 20" wheel option, 3.55 gears. TT is a 2015 Palomino Puma, 34.5', estimated at 9200ish loaded (7952 UVW). I added air bags to the truck and replaced the rear shocks with Rancho RS9000XL's. I also bit the bullet and bought a used ProPride 3P hitch. So far I've got about 1600 miles towing and I LOVE this tow setup. No sway, plenty of power, and a nice ride for everyday driving. My previous truck was a 2011 F250 with the 6.7 and before that a 97 F250 with 7.3L and 5 speed manual. Oh, I also replaced the SL rated factory tires with XL rated.

Just reread your original post about the "practical effects". IMHO, there would be none IF you beef up the suspension, use stiffer tires and a good hitch. This can be and has been debated to death, but this has been my experience and the experience of many others.

[dustman_stx]

Originally Posted by acadianbob

There will always be those who overload their trucks; and then give you the OK to overload yours. If that is what you are seeking, you will get it. But I wouldn't risk my family and others on the highway by doing it.

You'll see others saying EXACTLY the same thing about using any hitch other than a ProPride or Hensley, but you don't have one of those, do you???

[goduc]

Originally Posted by dustman_stx

I have a very similar setup, but without MaxTow. 2013 F150 SCrew, XLT, 4x4, 20" wheel option, 3.55 gears. TT is a 2015 Palomino Puma, 34.5', estimated at 9200ish loaded (7952 UVW). I added air bags to the truck and replaced the rear shocks with Rancho RS9000XL's. I also bit the bullet and bought a used ProPride 3P hitch. So far I've got about 1600 miles towing and I LOVE this tow setup. No sway, plenty of power, and a nice ride for everyday driving. My previous truck was a 2011 F250 with the 6.7 and before that a 97 F250 with 7.3L and 5 speed manual. Oh, I also replaced the SL rated factory tires with XL rated.

Just reread your original post about the "practical effects". IMHO, there would be none IF you beef up the suspension, use stiffer tires and a good hitch. This can be and has been debated to death, but this has been my experience and the experience of many others.

My guess is you're over you receivers 1130lb rating. Or real close. Plus you're definitely over the trucks GVW and GCVWR.

9200
7200
=16400

15,400 is the max for your truck.

I just don't get why people buy a truck and try and tow a TT or 5'er that's too big for the truck. Must be an ego thing. Hey look at me, I can tow anything.

[OldCoot]

Originally Posted by acadianbob

There will always be those who overload their trucks; and then give you the OK to overload yours. If that is what you are seeking, you will get it. But I wouldn't risk my family and others on the highway by doing it.

It might be your preference, but to say someone else is putting their family and others at risk is a little over the top don't you think?

[Herk7769]

In the aviation field, payload (max weight and "G" loading) is a function of service life. Exceeding the max ratings won't necessarily cause the wings to fall off; BUT you normally don't know how many times previously they were exceeded and by how much.

One day you are just flying along and your service life (and you) expires.

I am sure there is a "pad" in the truck as well. I am also sure it is engineered in as your truck's anticipated service life.

Exceeding the rating "a little" may not break your truck for a long time, but one day you may be coming home from the store and the transmission or engine may give up the ghost for "just no reason at all."

[jtstromsburg]

Exceeding the rating "a little" may not break your truck for a long time, but one day you may be coming home from the store and the transmission or engine may give up the ghost for "just no reason at all."[/QUOTE]

While I agree with this, it can happen whether you tow or not. I live in central Nebraska, read farm central, and everyone tows well over rated weights. I rarely see a truck broke down let alone trailer disasters that are talked about on here.

[X96mnn]

You will be absolutely fine unless something bad happens.

Please don't take that as me trying to be smart, ask my wife she will tell you I am far from it. You will up have enough power to tow it and torque to get it moving. Your issue just like anyone else who has similar set ups, if something bad happens and you need to stop or maneuver quickly.

With this said, the same thing can happen with a properly equipped and rated TV, but the difference would be if lawyers and police get involved, and worse case scenario, one is an accident and one is vehicular manslaughter due to unsafe operation of a motor vehicle. And YES this is stretching it to the extreme thus my WORST case scenario.

[ChooChooMan74]

How about this. Enjoy your "fudge factor", and let's not debate whether it is ok or not. At least he is showing concern about it. I see so many people carelessly towing out there, towing things way too big for them, it makes me shake my head.

[harderd]

I pulled that with a 2000 F150, the new ones are capable of much more. I met a Canadian at Myrtle beach pulling a 9000Lb 5ver in a new F150 short bed and said no problem not even in the mountains. From Canada to Florida and back. You just have to do what makes you feel comfortable.

[irishtom29]

Thanks to all who responded, it's been an interesting and helpful discussion.

I was a boilermaker (Local 1, Chicago) for 35 years and did lots of high and heavy rigging and I never exceeded rated capacities, even though rigging equipment usually has a fudge factor of double the rating (not counting cranes, many a time I measured the distance from the pin to the load destination while consulting with boom charts and operators). I think it prudent to continue that practice with regards to truck payload; why change what worked?

[BigTJohn]

Engine - OK, Brakes - maybe OK, frame - probably not OK. Over the top to say "endangering family" - probably not over the top. Endangering others on the road - not over the top. Doing what is comfortable - not so good, not quite so safe. Just a little over the weight - still not so good. Service life - steadily going down, more quickly if just a little over, not as fast if within limits.
If one is over limits, one is over limits. Just the way things are. Just because "I have done this for X number of months/years" does not make it any less over the limits imposed by the truck statistics. Is it any less dangerous, for what ever reason you try to purport, no. Is it any better for any reason other than trying to justify it in your own mind, no. Don't try to reassure anyone else's question if it's the right thing to do, just because you do it, does it make it right? Just like Mom used to say "I Jimmy jumped off the bridge, would you"? I didn't have the heart to tell her that I jumped first.
Ranting, no - just giving up on all the opinions by those not really "qualified" or otherwise have all the facts in hand to "make things the way I want them made". OK, yeah I'm ranting...for a reason, I love stirring the pot and use a great big paddle to do so. This will either get some people so riled up they can't see or type straight, or so upset at me or the non-facts I didn't give to be mad at me, or just because "I'm right and you are wrong" I will get blasted. I don't really care. This should be a fun thread to see how in unravels...

[Kaadk]

The simple fact is that the choice comes down to the OP. If he's willing to risk it, then that's his choice. I don't think it's fair to say he's going to kill his family or whatever just by being over. There's just as much chance of him killing his family if he's under too. It's a chance we all take by getting in our vehicles and hurtling along inside a 5000 lb cannonball with limited control.

I won't tell the OP they should or they shouldn't, it's entirely their choice. I'll just tell them what I do, which is my choice. I tow a 5K something TT with a Ram 1500 @ 1150 payload. By my calculations (but not official CAT scale weighings) I'm within my limits when I'm by myself. After I add the 415 lbs of DW, DS, DD, Dog1, Dog2, booster seats and various road trip items like snacks, drinks, etc... I'm now over. So, I drive accordingly. I'm aware that I'm over and I adjust because of it. I leave more space between me and the next guy, I'll stay behind a slower vehicle longer instead of trying to pass, I'll take that turn slower, etc...

Does this mean I've reduced the risk of killing my entire family? I believe so.
Does this mean I've removed the risk of killing my entire family? No. The risk is always there, even when not towing.

[dustman_stx]

Originally Posted by Kaadk

The simple fact is that the choice comes down to the OP. If he's willing to risk it, then that's his choice. I don't think it's fair to say he's going to kill his family or whatever just by being over. There's just as much chance of him killing his family if he's under too. It's a chance we all take by getting in our vehicles and hurtling along inside a 5000 lb cannonball with limited control.

I won't tell the OP they should or they shouldn't, it's entirely their choice. I'll just tell them what I do, which is my choice. I tow a 5K something TT with a Ram 1500 @ 1150 payload. By my calculations (but not official CAT scale weighings) I'm within my limits when I'm by myself. After I add the 415 lbs of DW, DS, DD, Dog1, Dog2, booster seats and various road trip items like snacks, drinks, etc... I'm now over. So, I drive accordingly. I'm aware that I'm over and I adjust because of it. I leave more space between me and the next guy, I'll stay behind a slower vehicle longer instead of trying to pass, I'll take that turn slower, etc...

Does this mean I've reduced the risk of killing my entire family? I believe so.
Does this mean I've removed the risk of killing my entire family? No. The risk is always there, even when not towing.

K, you just injected common sense into this debate. That is NOT allowed on a payload thread!!!! Everyone knows that all of us that tow trailers are unable to adjust our driving habits for conditions and we always tow in the most severe environments in the US and must therefore obey the lawyer sticker that was calculated with that in mind!!!!!!!!

[GreenImp]

Originally Posted by X96mnn

You will up have enough power to tow it and torque to get it moving. Your issue just like anyone else who has similar set ups, if something bad happens and you need to stop or maneuver quickly.

This is KEY, and so often overlooked and/or forgotten by most people. You can rest assured that when tow ratings/capacities are set, they do not care how long it takes you to accelerate to cruising speed or climb a hill. Every one of us has been behind a properly loaded "Big Rig" slowly accelerating up to speed or crawling up a hill with their flashers on due to their low speed. You should also note that once those trucks slowly crest the hill, they normally go down the other side at about the same slow speed to ensure that they can keep their vehicle under control throughout their descent. What the people that set the tow ratings care about is your ability to control your vehicle and stop when needed (read EMERGENCY SITUATIONS), and maybe a little bit about service life as mentioned above. It's the marketing staff that caters to the public's sense of need for towing power.

In my opinion, it is significantly more important how you drive (speed, following distance, alertness, etc.) and that your vehicles are in proper working order, than to be 100% within your towing specs. Also, I prefer to look at overloading in percentages rather than x number of pounds. Overloading a Chevy Malibu's tow capacity by 200lbs is far more drastic than overloading an F350's tow ratings by the same 200lbs.