Payload Question - F150

[DieselDrax]

Originally Posted by goduc

True. In theory only 10% is required. If you have 12-15% then reducing that to 10% is fine. Although I feel that if the TT barely handles well at 12.5% or more then lowering the TW could inflate the conditions.

There's a reason that boat trailers only need 10%. It's because the axle (s) are at the rear of the trailer. Many TT's have their axle (s) more towards the center, making heavier TW's above 10% necessary.

Boat trailers tend to have up to 10% at the most, depending on the boat and trailer setup that number is often times closer to 5%. Just depends.

[SailorSam20500]

Originally Posted by goduc

True. In theory only 10% is required. If you have 12-15% then reducing that to 10% is fine. Although I feel that if the TT barely handles well at 12.5% or more then lowering the TW could inflate the conditions.

There's a reason that boat trailers only need 10%. It's because the axle (s) are at the rear of the trailer. Many TT's have their axle (s) more towards the center, making heavier TW's above 10% necessary.

Yup. When I weighed mine last year, I was at nearly 17% with an empty FW tank . So I usually tow with water in my fresh tank which is aft of my axles.

[vsandy]

Hi folks, I started the thread and thought it might be useful to follow up now that I've towed several times (about 800 miles) and have actual weights from the CAT scale visit. We've been to the mountains of NC three times, perhaps the most challenging is on HWY 16 into Jefferson - IIRCC the road signs indicate 8 miles at 8% grade. I'm pleased with the towing ability of the truck with this trailer and will continue to dial in the hitch as I do occaisionally feel some sway but never having towed a travel trailer I don't know what a normal amount of sway is, if any. For instance, I feel the movement when a big rig passes. It doesn't feel out of control and it corrects itself after the initial movement most every time. But there have been a few times when I activated the trailer brakes just to make sure it doesn't continue to sway - so a few seconds at most.

I'm using an Andersen WD/no-sway hitch. Trailer has Goodyear Endurance tires (load range D). The truck has Michelin LT tires (load range E). All tires properly inflated.

Here are the numbers:
Truck Ratings
GVWR = 7,050
Payload = 1,608
Steer GAWR = 3,600
Drive GAWR = 3,800

Trailer Ratings
Trailer GVWR = 6,723
Trailer max cargo = 899
Two axles = 3,500 each

CAT weights (loaded truck only, trailer not connected)
Steer =3,320
Drive = 2,740
Gross = 6,060

CAT weights (truck + trailer + WD hitch)
Steer = 3,300
Drive = 3,460
Trailer axles = 5,820
Gross = 12,580

CAT weights (truck + trailer without WD hitch connected but in truck bed)
Steer = 3,080
Drive = 3,780
Trailer axles = 5,700
Gross = 12,560 (why 20 lbs less than above???)

If I've calculated this correctly the tongue weight is 720 lbs. Drive axle with trailer and WDH minus drive axle w/o trailer: 3,460 - 2,740 = 720

Tongue weight is 11% of gross trailer weight. Tongue weight divided by trailer gross weight, trailer gross weight is tongue weight plus axle weight: 720 / (720 + 5,820) = 11.01%

Thanks for looking. Vince in NC

[DieselDrax]

Originally Posted by vsandy

Hi folks, I started the thread and thought it might be useful to follow up now that I've towed several times (about 800 miles) and have actual weights from the CAT scale visit. We've been to the mountains of NC three times, perhaps the most challenging is on HWY 16 into Jefferson - IIRCC the road signs indicate 8 miles at 8% grade. I'm pleased with the towing ability of the truck with this trailer and will continue to dial in the hitch as I do occaisionally feel some sway but never having towed a travel trailer I don't know what a normal amount of sway is, if any. For instance, I feel the movement when a big rig passes. It doesn't feel out of control and it corrects itself after the initial movement most every time. But there have been a few times when I activated the trailer brakes just to make sure it doesn't continue to sway - so a few seconds at most.



I'm using an Andersen WD/no-sway hitch. Trailer has Goodyear Endurance tires (load range D). The truck has Michelin LT tires (load range E). All tires properly inflated.



Here are the numbers:

Truck Ratings

GVWR = 7,050

Payload = 1,608

Steer GAWR = 3,600

Drive GAWR = 3,800



Trailer Ratings

Trailer GVWR = 6,723

Trailer max cargo = 899

Two axles = 3,500 each



CAT weights (loaded truck only, trailer not connected)

Steer =3,320

Drive = 2,740

Gross = 6,060



CAT weights (truck + trailer + WD hitch)

Steer = 3,300

Drive = 3,460

Trailer axles = 5,820

Gross = 12,580



CAT weights (truck + trailer without WD hitch connected but in truck bed)

Steer = 3,080

Drive = 3,780

Trailer axles = 5,700

Gross = 12,560 (why 20 lbs less than above???)



If I've calculated this correctly the tongue weight is 720 lbs. Drive axle with trailer and WDH minus drive axle w/o trailer: 3,460 - 2,740 = 720



Tongue weight is 11% of gross trailer weight. Tongue weight divided by trailer gross weight, trailer gross weight is tongue weight plus axle weight: 720 / (720 + 5,820) = 11.01%



Thanks for looking. Vince in NC

Weights look good! Close but still under the truck’s limits. The 20LB difference is likely because the scales report in 20LB increments and you just happened to trigger the threshold one way or the other.

[babock]

Originally Posted by vsandy

If I've calculated this correctly the tongue weight is 720 lbs. Drive axle with trailer and WDH minus drive axle w/o trailer: 3,460 - 2,740 = 720

I would say that is not correct. The tongue weight needs to be weighed separately. Unless your axle is directly underneath your trailer hitch, that isn't an accurate way to calculate it.

You can also calculate it by the weight of the empty truck(both axles) minus the weight of the truck(both axles) with the trailer attached which means it is actually 800#. Your actual tongue weight percent is 800/(800 + 5700) = 12.3%

Out of curiosity, were all passengers that you normally carry, in the truck when you weighed it?

Your truck is very similar to mine. Mine has a few more pounds for payload capacity. It's just the two of us and our trailer tongue weight is around 850#

Originally Posted by vsandy

The truck has Michelin LT tires (load range E). All tires properly inflated.

Your truck didn't come with those tires right? Mine came with Michelin but they aren't LT tires. They are the Michelin Primacy XC. 2750# per tire load rating.

[DieselDrax]

EDIT: I see you edited your post as I quoted it. [emoji23]

[vsandy]

Thanks for the input. To answer a few questions - yes the truck was loaded for camping with passengers and gear. Also just the two of us and our small dog. The Michelins were worked into the purchase of the truck so I paid the difference over the stock tires.

And thanks for your correction to my tongue weight calculation.

Vince in NC

[SailorSam20500]

Originally Posted by vsandy

For instance, I feel the movement when a big rig passes. It doesn't feel out of control and it corrects itself after the initial movement most every time. But there have been a few times when I activated the trailer brakes just to make sure it doesn't continue to sway - so a few seconds at most.Thanks for looking. Vince in NC

All rigs, regardless of the hitch they are using, will experience something when a semi or Class A blows by you. I know I do. However, it is concerning that you have felt the need to manually activate your trailer brakes to straighten things out. I have never felt a need to do that.

I'll be interested in seeing what others have to say.

[vsandy]

Originally Posted by SailorSam20500

However, it is concerning that you have felt the need to manually activate your trailer brakes to straighten things out.

Probably over-reaction of my part based on what a friend advised before I ever got a travel trailer - a way to straighten it out right away to ensure it doesn't get out of hand. Being new to this I'm trying to be very cautious. Heading home this morning from a mountain campground, another 3 hour drive to add to my learning. Its a beautiful morning and looking forward to the drive home.

Vince in NC

[S Wodtke]

Found this thread when searching for help on a possible purchase of an Arctic Wolf. We have a 2107 F-150 with the Eco Boost and towing package. I'm wondering how things are going for DGibson with this setup. Thanks!

[cfo111]

Do a lot of home work on towing before buying you may learn the hard way. If possible do you have or know anyone who would loan you or come with you with the truck and try it towing.

[S Wodtke]

Thanks for the reply. We have the F150 but it is not yet set up for towing. It doesn't have the hitch in the bed. We may just buy a bigger truck. But hate to do that.

[bikendan]

Originally Posted by S Wodtke

Found this thread when searching for help on a possible purchase of an Arctic Wolf. We have a 2107 F-150 with the Eco Boost and towing package. I'm wondering how things are going for DGibson with this setup. Thanks!

You haven't given the important information. Just saying Ecoboost and towing package isn't enough, ESPECIALLY regarding towing a 5th wheel with a 1/2 ton.

3.5 or 2.7 Ecoboost
Max Tow package or standard tow package
Cab size
Bed size
4x4 or 4x2
Rear end ratio
Heavy Duty Payload package or not
Driver's door yellow sticker payload capacity amount

[S Wodtke]

Here's what I could find. Thanks, Sheila

3.5 or 2.7 Ecoboost - 3.5
Max Tow package or standard tow package - Max Tow package
Cab size - Super Crew
Bed size - 5 1/2
4x4 or 4x2 - 4 x 4
Rear end ratio ?
Heavy Duty Payload package or not - 7000lb GVWR package
Driver's door yellow sticker payload capacity amount - 1628

[bikendan]

Originally Posted by S Wodtke

Here's what I could find. Thanks, Sheila

3.5 or 2.7 Ecoboost - 3.5
Max Tow package or standard tow package - Max Tow package
Cab size - Super Crew
Bed size - 5 1/2
4x4 or 4x2 - 4 x 4
Rear end ratio ?
Heavy Duty Payload package or not - 7000lb GVWR package
Driver's door yellow sticker payload capacity amount - 1628

That's good info BUT unless this Arctic Wolf has an extremely low pin weight, your 1628lbs of payload will not be enough. If it had the HDPP, you might have enough, depending on which Arctic Wolf model.
My 2014 has almost the same specs but my payload is 200lbs higher and there are only a handful of 5th wheels within my specs.
From what I've read, Arctic Wolf 5th wheels are NOT ultralight trailers.
Post which model you're looking at.

[bikendan]

The only Arctic Wolf model that has a chance, is the 271RK, with a fictional dry pin weight of 1185lbs.
Adding only 80lbs for two batteries, at least 100lbs for 5th wheel hitch, 350lbs for 2 adults to the non reality 1185lbs, gives you 1715lbs. This already exceeds your F150's max payload capacity, BEFORE you add the weights of added truck options, truck cargo/additional passengers, water, trailer options and trailer cargo.
This is why very few 1/2 tons are capable of towing 5th wheels. Not enough payload for the higher amount of 5th wheel pin weights, compared to TT tongue weights.

[rsdata]

The only Arctic Wolf model that has a chance, is the 271RK, with a fictional dry pin weight of 1185lbs.

This is why very few 1/2 tons are capable of towing 5th wheels. Not enough payload for the higher amount of 5th wheel pin weights, compared to TT tongue weights.

This info tells you why the F-150 is NOT enough truck for even the lightest Artic Wolf...

[bikendan]

Originally Posted by rsdata

This info tells you why the F-150 is NOT enough truck for even the lightest Artic Wolf...

I have wished I could find a 5th Wheel that the truck AND the DW both liked, for my F150. Unfortunately the closest I've come is the Open Range Light 280RKS, with a dry pin weight of 1100lbs. So even with my 1828lbs of payload, I fear real world numbers won't work.[emoji25]

[Boomerweps]

I'm confused. F150 SHORT bed SCrew, even with max tow package, to tow a 5er?
Cab clearance is a HUGE concern, especially since a 5er hitch centers over the rear axle AFAIK, offsetting it forward in the short bed.
I strongly recommend a travel trailer be considered.
I have a similar truck but with the V8 and regular tow package. So far my investigations have not been fruitful concerning towing a short 5er with my truck.

[67L48]

Originally Posted by S Wodtke

Here's what I could find. Thanks, Sheila

3.5 or 2.7 Ecoboost - 3.5
Max Tow package or standard tow package - Max Tow package
Cab size - Super Crew
Bed size - 5 1/2
4x4 or 4x2 - 4 x 4
Rear end ratio ?
Heavy Duty Payload package or not - 7000lb GVWR package
Driver's door yellow sticker payload capacity amount - 1628

I highly recommend you start your own thread with your own set of conditions and questions, rather than to tack onto page 14 of someone else's thread. That's not meant to be any sort of attack, scolding, or etiquette issue. It's just so that you get better help and more dedicated attention ... rather than your issues getting lost in a massive thread like this.

1628 isn't much payload and will get eaten up incredibly fast. It will be highly dependent on your objectives and your habits. (with "it" being your trailer towing options/capability.)

Good luck.