Payload with 1/2 tons?

[dbledan]

Originally Posted by dustman_stx

This isn't exactly accurate. While a WDH doesn't technically reduce the tongue weight- this is a static number that is determined BEFORE you hitch up- it will reduce the amount loaded onto the truck. It doesn't just redistribute weight between the 2 TV axles, it also transfers some back to the trailer axles. For example, lets say that with your WDH on the truck but no trailer hooked up, ready to camp, your truck weighs 6000 pounds and has a GVWR of 7000. Your trailer tongue weight is exactly 1000 pounds. If you were to connect the trailer to the truck and NOT engage the WD, your truck would scale at 7000, or very close. Once you were to engage the WDH, some of that 1K TW would transfer to the trailer axles and you would NOT be at 7K if you were to weigh just the truck. The amount transferred to the trailer axles would vary depending on wheelbase of the TT and the TV and the amount you were trying to transfer back to the TV front axle.

Agreed on the wdh. I have blueox swaypro. It's required to pull the weight (anything over 500lbs tongue weight). I think I would use it for sway even if I didn't need it with a larger truck.

You are right that some weight goes back to the trailer wheels, however it is minimal in my opinion so little I don't count it and call it safety margin when calculating payload. I weigh the tongue now to estimate payload and know how to setup the wdh then measure wheel height again to be sure. I will reweigh if I change trailer loading significantly.

I learned a lot on that first trip and shortly after. Learn to setup and adjust your own stuff, how to balance loads better, where to place items for less sway, how to properly align your WDH, weigh your rig, weigh your rig, weigh your rig...it made me very paranoid. I have relaxed now as I know more and where to be to be confortable driving but wish I had known up front. Would have gotten smaller trailer and/or a bigger truck. It is one of the reasons I don't mind the weight police so much trying to prevent someone else from over reaching. Once you have had that bad experience close to max loads you learn the hard way and want to prevent others from being in the situation. I still don't think you need a 250 to pull a pop up though :-)

I don't need all the tools now that bugs have been shaken out so that means much easier to maintain weights.

The DW wants to upgrade in time so I will still get a new truck but not until I am no longer taking a bath on this one. More expensive upgrading afterwards. Better to plan it from the start and I did not.

Best of luck on the new truck OP looks like you matched up well but best to make sure at least once when loaded and ready to camp.

[Restcure]

Originally Posted by Brendon44

Agree, only thing I would have changed is the color. It was dirty by the time I drove it home😑

Likewise. But I let the original owner absorb the depreciation so it seems only fair that he got to pick the colour.

When it's clean, though...

[Brendon44]

Restcure what kind of bike rack is that? I haven't seen that before.

[windsurfdog]

Originally Posted by dbledan

You are right that some weight goes back to the trailer wheels, however it is minimal in my opinion so little I don't count it and call it safety margin when calculating payload.

Here are a couple of figures from my last 2 CAT scales weighings:

Truck weight (hitched + WDH engaged) 6480 6740
Truck weight (hitched, no WDH) 6560 6860
Tongue weight 560 660

80# was transferred to the trailer on the first weighing, 120# for the second weighing.

So, for this particular example, about 14% - 18% of tongue weight is transferred back to trailer. For me, with the Blue Ox, this would vary depending on how many links were used during hookup. The first was using 9 links, the second was using 10 links.

HTH

[rockfordroo]

Originally Posted by Brendon44

Restcure what kind of bike rack is that? I haven't seen that before.

I believe there are 3 variations of A-frame bike racks on the market.

Bike Bunk:
https://www.strombergcarlson.com/car...-model-cc-275/

Jack-It:
https://www.lci1.com/jack-it

Arvika:
https://www.racksforcars.com/Arvika/

Don't know which one he has.

This guy (post #16) had his Jack-It fail:
http://www.forestriverforums.com/for...-149483-2.html

[Restcure]

Originally Posted by Brendon44

Restcure what kind of bike rack is that? I haven't seen that before.

That's an Arvika rack; they're made here in Canada.

It worked a lot better on our previous TT, when the propane tanks were against the cabin and the battery was in front.




With our Rockwood it's reversed and the setup is not ideal. No access to the battery and the support arm has to come down sideways. The 3" lift on this trailer and the need to access the rock guard for the front window don't help either.




We bought a hitch adapter for it so it can be moved around... we've tried the front of the truck...




...and the back of the trailer...




...but we've yet to find a solution that we're happy with. In the spring I will swap the positions of the battery and the tanks. We'll try the rack on the tongue again to see how we like it.

Lots more pictures at https://www.flickr.com/photos/rests/...57633490891334

[Hersbird]

I disagree to a point about what is counted in regards to WDH. The weight on the wheels of the truck is the weight on the wheels of the truck with everything set up as would be weighed on the roadside scales. As some weight is transferred from the truck to the trailer that does leave you more room with your GVWR on the truck side. If you don't want to call that tounge weight fine, but the only weight put on a truck with a bumper hitch is through the tounge and if the weight is reduced then it isn't coming from any other point.

[VernDiesel]

Dbldan Good WD work on the scales sometimes proves more transfer back to the TT axles than one might think. In the thread don't rely on your RV dealership the RV dealership set up his load using WDH and measurements but after we took it to the scales we still got another 120 pounds transferred back to the TT axles. If we had the TT axle weights before using any WDH we may have seen two or three hundred pounds transferred off the TV axles to the TT axles.

As you say weigh your rig weigh your rig weigh your rig. Also in addition to the sway control you reference even if a person doesn't think they need it by useing the WDH and getting good WD between the TV axles the TV & TT combination is much safer & more stable. Especially in event of say an emergency swerve around to avoid an accident. It literally can make the difference in such scenario of ending up backwards & upside down in a ditch with your trailer debre littering the road or not.

Restcure enjoy and visit he local CAT scale. 🙂

[windsurfdog]

Maybe this will help you, Hersbird:

Truck weight (hitched + WDH engaged) 6480 6740
Truck weight (hitched, no WDH) 6560 6860
Truck weight (truck only) 6000 6200
Tongue weight 560 660

So, looking at the second weighing, truck weight with NO wdh minus truck only weight = 660# tongue weight. 120# of that tongue weight is transferred back to the trailer when the WDH is engaged.

[Brendon44]

So basically the weight of the actual WDH is transferred back to the trailer?

[windsurfdog]

Brendon, look at it like this:

In the case of weighing #2, if the trailer would have been disconnected and a scale placed under the tongue jack, it would have read 660#. That entire 660# tongue weight was transferred to the truck ball with NO wdh. Once the wdh was engaged, the realized weight to the truck was 540#. Now, when figuring tongue weight percentage, since the tongue weight is 660#, that 660# is used for the percentage. In this case, my tongue weight percentage was 13.4%.

Does that help?

[Brendon44]

That makes sense. To be on the safe side I'll assume no weight goes back to the trailer's axles.

[Hersbird]

Originally Posted by windsurfdog

Maybe this will help you, Hersbird:

Truck weight (hitched + WDH engaged) 6480 6740
Truck weight (hitched, no WDH) 6560 6860
Truck weight (truck only) 6000 6200
Tongue weight 560 660

So, looking at the second weighing, truck weight with NO wdh minus truck only weight = 660# tongue weight. 120# of that tongue weight is transferred back to the trailer when the WDH is engaged.

Oh I agree with you, I disagree with people who say a WDH doesn't reduce tounge weight. While technically you can't measure tounge weight directly with the trailer hitched up, you can calculate it based on how much heavier a truck is when its hitched up compared to when its not. That number is lower with a WDH setup and therefore the WDH is reducing the tounge weight. Now you may not want to use that number when trying to get 12-15% "tounge weight" but you certainly can use the real world lower effect on the payload of the truck.

[Iwannacamp]

[QUOTE=rockfordroo;1682606]I would also comment that a lot of people are over their payload because they don't have a clue. The RV salesman told them, "Oh, sure your "fill-the-blank" vehicle can pull this RV!"

Seen this more than one time myself. They see a 3/4T diesel 4X4 and say "Yeah you can tow anything I have!"

[wildcatter]

Originally Posted by rockfordroo

Yeah, and they have a word for that - Lucky

I agree, several years ago I bought a FR 27HFS toy hauler and used a 99 silverado with a 8500lbs towing capacity, the trailer was 8K loaded with the bike, it was not a pleasant ride, the DW would ride with her eyes closed, went out and bought a RAM 3500 CCLB Cummins, I should have done that in the first place, with the silverado I always left a lot of room between me and the cars in front of me but there are alot of ID10T errors out there that would cut you off and then slow down, the half tons just do not have the stopping power. And wouldn't you know it, I bought a bigger truck, the DW needed a bigger camper. :-), oh well if mama bunny not happy no bunny happy.

[clarkbre]

Originally Posted by Hersbird

Oh I agree with you, I disagree with people who say a WDH doesn't reduce tounge weight. While technically you can't measure tounge weight directly with the trailer hitched up, you can calculate it based on how much heavier a truck is when its hitched up compared to when its not. That number is lower with a WDH setup and therefore the WDH is reducing the tounge weight. Now you may not want to use that number when trying to get 12-15% "tounge weight" but you certainly can use the real world lower effect on the payload of the truck.

If you want to see real world results on how a WDH affects the load on your steer, drive and trailer axles, this spreadsheet works wonders. The area circled in red is how much weigh the WDH effectively distributed tongue weight back to the trailer axles. And, just below that, it shows how much weight was distributed back onto the steer axle.

There's no arguing or guessing on the scales...

[A32Deuce]

Originally Posted by clarkbre

If you want to see real world results on how a WDH affects the load on your steer, drive and trailer axles, this spreadsheet works wonders. The area circled in red is how much weigh the WDH effectively distributed tongue weight back to the trailer axles. And, just below that, it shows how much weight was distributed back onto the steer axle.

There's no arguing or guessing on the scales...

Attachment 158188

I remember the early adds for a WDH with the front drive Buick towing a trailer and no rear tires! Guess they must work because when they did those adds there were not CGI films.

[VernDiesel]

Wildcatter so after hopefully reading some of this thread you have figured out the bad brakes was likely due to the fact that your old Silverado had no weight on the steers likely due to bad weight distribution which was also the reason it was a handful to drive.

You likely could have resolved it either with a $300 WDH & $12 scale trip or a new big truck that's 2,000 pounds heavier. Neither way is wrong just depends on what is right for the individual with the choice. Assuming he is aware that he has the choice.