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Old 10-16-2015, 05:12 PM   #41
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The payload on the truck my be reduced by the weight of the Diesel engine but the gcwr is much higher on a diesel than a gas engine. The race for payload has the manufacturers rating the trucks higher than previous models with little to no changes under the truck to make it higher. For instance 2000 f250 has a 8800 gvw 2006 f250 has identical axles and springs in the rear but has a 9800 gvw.
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Old 10-16-2015, 06:34 PM   #42
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What good is a huge GCVW if the truck doesnt have the payload to handle safe Pin/Hitch weight?

a diesel 2500 isn't the right choice for even a modest size 5er.
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Old 10-16-2015, 07:00 PM   #43
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The payload on the truck my be reduced by the weight of the Diesel engine but the gcwr is much higher on a diesel than a gas engine. The race for payload has the manufacturers rating the trucks higher than previous models with little to no changes under the truck to make it higher. For instance 2000 f250 has a 8800 gvw 2006 f250 has identical axles and springs in the rear but has a 9800 gvw.
2004-2007 upgrades from earlier SD (2000) that incerased GVWR...
-10-17% thicker partially boxed frame, alternator with a higher current capacity.
-Larger 4-wheel disc brakes (13.66-in front and 13.39 in (340 mm) rear rotors) with new two-piston calipers.
-4x4 outer axle shafts got bumped up in size, standard 30 spline axles are gone in favor of 35 spline shafts.
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Old 10-16-2015, 07:36 PM   #44
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It is not only the weight you have to worry about. What no one takes into account is the air you will be pushing. Don't believe that then try towing a 5th wheel into a head wind.... Watch your fuel mileage and watch how often your truck downshifts, then imagine being close to your limits. I see 3/4 tons here in Texas towing way over their limits, but they are ranch trucks and not towing cross country.
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Old 10-16-2015, 08:26 PM   #45
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I see 250/2500 pulling 40+ ft toy haulers all the time up here in the Bakken. Squatting like a constipated bulldog. 20 something rig hands first purchase is a 3/4t diesel to be like all their coworkers. Many fancy themselves as motoX racers in the making and buy a triple axle TH. Their trucks have more than enough power, it's everything else that is woefully underrated. One of the major reasons I wouldn't buy one second hand. I looked at 3. One was owned by an older gent and was well taken care of, just had the entire exhaust system replaced. One came from a farm and was rode hard and put away wet. One was a trade in with big tires and a level. That one had serious issues. I took it back and told them and the salesman was flabbergasted because it had just gotten out of the shop.
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Old 10-17-2015, 08:44 AM   #46
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What good is a huge GCVW if the truck doesnt have the payload to handle safe Pin/Hitch weight?

a diesel 2500 isn't the right choice for even a modest size 5er.
I know this ruffles a lot of feathers but a lot of 3/4 tons diesels and 1 ton diesels have the same engine and chassis with the sole difference being the rear springs. This is evidenced by checking a parts catalog. Hence a 3/4 and 1 ton have the same payload capabilities with some modification. (for the SRW variety. A dually is a different dog). This is likely why you don't see a lot of 3/4s in the ditch, or broke down beside the road, being passed by 1 tons carrying the same load. In the final analysis, folks are going to continue to argue about the physical matter of the trucks vs what the door stickers sez.
I don't have a dog in this fight anyway but its an interesting discussion. But I'd be willing to bet that most wrecks involving truck/camper combinations are cause by something other than towing a rig with a pin weight a little above the stated payload rating.
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Old 10-17-2015, 09:08 AM   #47
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What good is a huge GCVW if the truck doesnt have the payload to handle safe Pin/Hitch weight?

a diesel 2500 isn't the right choice for even a modest size 5er.
Huh.

I have to disagree. My F250 has 2700 lbs payload as equipped and rated by the Factory. I can pull all modest sized 5er up to 15,000 lbs. If you load the cargo pay with rocks and junk yeah at maximum load it might have a issue with payload. Starting, stopping, stability is a non starter. At the Goshen rally I saw many 3/4 ton TV towing 16,000 lb trailers. Been said many times with the Ford the difference between a 350 and 250 is blocks on the rear axle and a sticker.
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Old 10-17-2015, 09:10 AM   #48
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I know this ruffles a lot of feathers but a lot of 3/4 tons diesels and 1 ton diesels have the same engine and chassis with the sole difference being the rear springs. This is evidenced by checking a parts catalog. Hence a 3/4 and 1 ton have the same payload capabilities with some modification. (for the SRW variety. A dually is a different dog). This is likely why you don't see a lot of 3/4s in the ditch, or broke down beside the road, being passed by 1 tons carrying the same load. In the final analysis, folks are going to continue to argue about the physical matter of the trucks vs what the door stickers sez.
I don't have a dog in this fight anyway but its an interesting discussion. But I'd be willing to bet that most wrecks involving truck/camper combinations are cause by something other than towing a rig with a pin weight a little above the stated payload rating.
My 250 equipped with the camper package actually has heavier springs than many F350's. I have no fear towing our next 5er. We have no plans on going with 42 ft or a triple axle toy hauler but a decent sized unit.
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Old 10-17-2015, 10:15 AM   #49
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15,000lb 5er is going to have a minimum safe pin weight of ~2,250lbs. Up to 3750lbs. Let's assume 2250...

How much does your hitch weigh? ~200lbs
Wife? ~120lbs
Kids?
Transfer tanks and fuel?
Blocking?
Misc gear?

That 2700 is gone in a hurry assuming minimum safe pin weight.
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Old 10-17-2015, 10:19 AM   #50
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15,000lb 5er is going to have a minimum safe pin weight of ~2,250lbs. Up to 3750lbs. Let's assume 2250...

How much does your hitch weigh? ~200lbs
Wife? ~120lbs
Kids?
Transfer tanks and fuel?
Blocking?
Misc gear?

That 2700 is gone in a hurry assuming minimum safe pin weight.
Would you venture a swag on my 12 Flagstaff 8528RKWS pin wt? I know exactly what it is with the front loaded and the kitchen completely empty of food, etc.
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