Pin weight of 5th Wheel

Sandy12345 · 10-13-2015, 01:31 PM

I have a 2007 Tundra with 5.7L V8 with full factory tow package that is rated to two 10,600 lbs. I purchased a RockWood Premier Ultralight 5th Wheel that has a gvwr of 9206lb. If I use the suggested 15 and 25% of gvwr as my range for pin weight that is 1381# min pin wt. and 2301 max pin wt. I have read the forums on this issue and got to checking and my payload (CCC) for my truck is 1475. After taking out 340# for my wife and me and 250 for hitch in bed that leaves 885 for pin wt. I am way over wt. as I see it. Any disagreement? As a newbie to 5th wheels I naively listened to the salesman convince me that my truck could more than handle the weight and pull the RV with out problems. The rear axle weight Rating is 4100#s. Do I need a bigger truck?

Mountndream · 10-13-2015, 01:37 PM

yes, you need a bigger truck.

Iwannacamp · 10-13-2015, 03:16 PM

As many will say...most tell you anything. We were looking at a dealer in Paris TX at a BIG fiver... And commented how big it was...I said dang it would take a real truck for that. He said what kinda truck you got? I said 3/4 Dodge and he said without any other info...it'll pull it.

Yeah...

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**ependydad** · 10-13-2015, 03:18 PM

You can usually get a more realistic estimate of pin weight by taking the dry weights and extrapolating from them.

See if this link helps:
http://towingplanner.com/Estimators/...nWeightFromDry

WFD · 10-13-2015, 08:59 PM

You will definitely be overweight. So many people, mostly salespeople put the emphasis on towing capacity...sure it has the towing capacity...but many people make the mistake with 5th wheels, that most 1/2 tons simply do not have the cargo capacity for 90% of todays pin weights. Granted there are some HD halfs with trailering pkg's that may pass the grade. Some folks in the forum here have such trucks...but yours doesn't sound like it's one of those. You really have 2 choices here...get a different trailer, or get a different truck, but your current combination is not a good one.

drittal · 10-14-2015, 06:51 AM

Even with a 3/4t diesel you'd be pushing payload.

SKnight · 10-14-2015, 09:12 AM

First, add 150 pounds back in. When they spec payload they (generally) have a full tank of gas and the driver figured in.

Second, you already have the equipment in question. Go weigh it. There's a multitude of threads on how, so I won't fully detail it out but a weight fully hitched and the weights unhitched with an axle on different pads.

Holding tanks empty since we usually dump before leaving and the fresh tank either drained or full, no in between since you won't know how much you really have.

It might not be bad as you think, mainly because we rarely tow at gross weight. My unit has a dry weight of 11,366 and a gross of 15,550. I don't know where I'd put 4,000 pounds of stuff unless I started collecting depleted uranium. My ready to camp weight is 12,000 as I recall. 15,550X.25=3,887 pounds pin weight which is outside every sub 4500 series truck. Reality is I'm at 2,600 pin weight, again as I recall, which is right at my trucks rating.

So quit worrying and don't run out and drop a load on a new truck because the weight police said to. Get some real data, then make informed decisions from there.

dieselguy · 10-14-2015, 09:29 AM

I fully agree with SKnight ... since you already have the setup, get your setup weighed and go from there. Sooooooooo many responders on any RV forum seem to assume all RV'ers carry everything they own plus the neighbors in their RV's. I'm a seasonal RV'er and like SKnight, never get close to gross weight.

**ependydad** · 10-14-2015, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SKnight

First, add 150 pounds back in. When they spec payload they (generally) have a full tank of gas and the driver figured in.

Second, you already have the equipment in question. Go weigh it. There's a multitude of threads on how, so I won't fully detail it out but a weight fully hitched and the weights unhitched with an axle on different pads.

...

So quit worrying and don't run out and drop a load on a new truck because the weight police said to. Get some real data, then make informed decisions from there.

I don't think the payload deducts 150 pounds for a driver. I think that only applies to the "towing capacity" number that is published. When reading my Ram owners manual, it seemed to imply otherwise. But, that's Ram vs. Ford and I might have misread it. This also becomes a moot point if the OP weighs their setup.

And agreed- if the OP already has the unit, getting the weights is quick and easy at a truck stop/CAT scale:
Learn To RV: How to Weigh a Fifth Wheel Camper (at CAT Scales)

And, definitely agreed- the OP needs to get real info for their scenario and make an educated decision. Too many people are quick to say it's a 1/2-ton and therefore can't tow a fifth wheel. Lots of people here prove otherwise and that it can be done safely.

OldCoot · 10-14-2015, 09:47 AM

Invest a few dollars and buy a Sherline 5000# gauge and have the dealer prove to you what the pin weight is while the unit is on the lot. Cheap insurance to prevent a monumental lie being told by the dealer.

Telstar · 10-14-2015, 11:25 AM

Don't guess. Go to a scale and weigh your truck without the trailer then again with the trailer hooked up, but with only the truck on scale, trailer wheels off. You will then know the actual pin weight.

RubberNail · 10-14-2015, 11:58 AM

I agree with most of the prior suggestions. I would add that if you decide to go with a marginally overloaded tow vehicle, upgrade the tires to the highest rating you can while still at the same outside diameter, and add air springs. 5th wheels are usually manageable (drive more slowly, exercise more care) even when overweight if tow vehicle suspension doesn't move around.

SKnight · 10-14-2015, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ependydad

I don't think the payload deducts 150 pounds for a driver. I think that only applies to the "towing capacity" number that is published. When reading my Ram owners manual, it seemed to imply otherwise. But, that's Ram vs. Ford and I might have misread it. This also becomes a moot point if the OP weighs their setup.

Thats why I put generally. It all depends on how they wanted it to look for the sales brochure, if they needed 150 pounds to cross 2500 pounds, which looks spiffier on a brochure than 2350, then they would have legal bury in "payload excludes driver, fuel, and unwashed dirt."

GM used to say available payload included driver and a tank of fuel, and I've seen other makes do it, but I'm quite sure that's not the rule.

Gotta read that fine print!

**ependydad** · 10-14-2015, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SKnight

Thats why I put generally. It all depends on how they wanted it to look for the sales brochure, if they needed 150 pounds to cross 2500 pounds, which looks spiffier on a brochure than 2350, then they would have legal bury in "payload excludes driver, fuel, and unwashed dirt."

GM used to say available payload included driver and a tank of fuel, and I've seen other makes do it, but I'm quite sure that's not the rule.

Gotta read that fine print!

Gotcha and, yet again, totally agree. I was thinking the sticker on the door jamb. I had previously heard you add 150 lbs. to that (when my manual says otherwise).

hillsdaletc · 10-14-2015, 01:56 PM

Just a Note to RV owners.
I just read a great article in RV Pro Mag. on TRAILER TIRE SPEED RATINGS. All the years in the RV industry and I have never seen this brought up.
Trailer Tires designated as "ST" which we all have on our trailers and fifth wheels are ALL rated at a MAX SPEED OF 65 MPH. They must be kept up to max. PSI to obtain the 65 mph. capacity. Checked this on the net through tire mfrs. and suppliers and it's true. just type in "ST trailer tire speed ratings" Its no wonder we are over run repairing RV's with Blowout Damage. Three brands can go to 75 with 10 lbs, PSI over the max on the tire. (Usually 50 lbs. WHICH IS THE MAX ON THE WHEEL ) So 65 mph has to be the max. There is a tire with an F rating but you have to buy tires and wheels.

**ependydad** · 10-14-2015, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hillsdaletc

Just a Note to RV owners.
I just read a great article in RV Pro Mag. on TRAILER TIRE SPEED RATINGS. All the years in the RV industry and I have never seen this brought up.
Trailer Tires designated as "ST" which we all have on our trailers and fifth wheels are ALL rated at a MAX SPEED OF 65 MPH. They must be kept up to max. PSI to obtain the 65 mph. capacity. Checked this on the net through tire mfrs. and suppliers and it's true. just type in "ST trailer tire speed ratings" Its no wonder we are over run repairing RV's with Blowout Damage. Three brands can go to 75 with 10 lbs, PSI over the max on the tire. (Usually 50 lbs. WHICH IS THE MAX ON THE WHEEL ) So 65 mph has to be the max. There is a tire with an F rating but you have to buy tires and wheels.

That's not entirely accurate. Goodyear, Maxxis, and another have speed ratings up to 75mph. Often times, it's coupled with the weight carrying capacity and inflation.

OldCoot · 10-14-2015, 03:27 PM

IMO, only those wanting to have a problem would ever tow an rv over 65mph on ST tires. Talk about UNSAFE towing , that is the ultimate.

hillsdaletc · 10-14-2015, 04:01 PM

As I said in my message several Mfrs. Tires ARE rated at 75 MPH "IF YOU OVERINFLATE THE PSI ON THE TIRE TO 60 PSI "
Problem is most RV rims are rated at 50 lbs. Check your wheel PSI rating before over inflating. Note: many Aluminum wheels are rated higher.

floridela · 10-14-2015, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drittal

Even with a 3/4t diesel you'd be pushing payload.

Not sure how a 3/4 ton diesel is pushing payload? Where do you get this info from, not in the towing guides that I have seen.

hbillsmith · 10-14-2015, 07:53 PM

After you get your CAT weights you could shave a 100 or so pounds by going to a lighter hitch (Andersen Ultimate is 32# plus your rails,), consider taking out one of the propane tanks, carry the clothes and toys inside behind the axles. Airbags raise the nose but they do add 35#. So just a few small ideas. Lastly, where are you going. If Mountains and distant trips isn't really your plan, you may be fine for weekends at the lake or state parks.

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