Pin weight of 5th Wheel

[Tfort]

The payload on the truck my be reduced by the weight of the Diesel engine but the gcwr is much higher on a diesel than a gas engine. The race for payload has the manufacturers rating the trucks higher than previous models with little to no changes under the truck to make it higher. For instance 2000 f250 has a 8800 gvw 2006 f250 has identical axles and springs in the rear but has a 9800 gvw.

[drittal]

What good is a huge GCVW if the truck doesnt have the payload to handle safe Pin/Hitch weight?

a diesel 2500 isn't the right choice for even a modest size 5er.

[drittal]

Originally Posted by Tfort

The payload on the truck my be reduced by the weight of the Diesel engine but the gcwr is much higher on a diesel than a gas engine. The race for payload has the manufacturers rating the trucks higher than previous models with little to no changes under the truck to make it higher. For instance 2000 f250 has a 8800 gvw 2006 f250 has identical axles and springs in the rear but has a 9800 gvw.

2004-2007 upgrades from earlier SD (2000) that incerased GVWR...
-10-17% thicker partially boxed frame, alternator with a higher current capacity.
-Larger 4-wheel disc brakes (13.66-in front and 13.39 in (340 mm) rear rotors) with new two-piston calipers.
-4x4 outer axle shafts got bumped up in size, standard 30 spline axles are gone in favor of 35 spline shafts.

[steelpony5555]

It is not only the weight you have to worry about. What no one takes into account is the air you will be pushing. Don't believe that then try towing a 5th wheel into a head wind.... Watch your fuel mileage and watch how often your truck downshifts, then imagine being close to your limits. I see 3/4 tons here in Texas towing way over their limits, but they are ranch trucks and not towing cross country.

[drittal]

I see 250/2500 pulling 40+ ft toy haulers all the time up here in the Bakken. Squatting like a constipated bulldog. 20 something rig hands first purchase is a 3/4t diesel to be like all their coworkers. Many fancy themselves as motoX racers in the making and buy a triple axle TH. Their trucks have more than enough power, it's everything else that is woefully underrated. One of the major reasons I wouldn't buy one second hand. I looked at 3. One was owned by an older gent and was well taken care of, just had the entire exhaust system replaced. One came from a farm and was rode hard and put away wet. One was a trade in with big tires and a level. That one had serious issues. I took it back and told them and the salesman was flabbergasted because it had just gotten out of the shop.

[fvstringpicker]

Originally Posted by drittal

What good is a huge GCVW if the truck doesnt have the payload to handle safe Pin/Hitch weight?

a diesel 2500 isn't the right choice for even a modest size 5er.

I know this ruffles a lot of feathers but a lot of 3/4 tons diesels and 1 ton diesels have the same engine and chassis with the sole difference being the rear springs. This is evidenced by checking a parts catalog. Hence a 3/4 and 1 ton have the same payload capabilities with some modification. (for the SRW variety. A dually is a different dog). This is likely why you don't see a lot of 3/4s in the ditch, or broke down beside the road, being passed by 1 tons carrying the same load. In the final analysis, folks are going to continue to argue about the physical matter of the trucks vs what the door stickers sez.
I don't have a dog in this fight anyway but its an interesting discussion. But I'd be willing to bet that most wrecks involving truck/camper combinations are cause by something other than towing a rig with a pin weight a little above the stated payload rating.

[B and B]

Originally Posted by drittal

What good is a huge GCVW if the truck doesnt have the payload to handle safe Pin/Hitch weight?

a diesel 2500 isn't the right choice for even a modest size 5er.

Huh.

I have to disagree. My F250 has 2700 lbs payload as equipped and rated by the Factory. I can pull all modest sized 5er up to 15,000 lbs. If you load the cargo pay with rocks and junk yeah at maximum load it might have a issue with payload. Starting, stopping, stability is a non starter. At the Goshen rally I saw many 3/4 ton TV towing 16,000 lb trailers. Been said many times with the Ford the difference between a 350 and 250 is blocks on the rear axle and a sticker.

[B and B]

Originally Posted by fvstringpicker

I know this ruffles a lot of feathers but a lot of 3/4 tons diesels and 1 ton diesels have the same engine and chassis with the sole difference being the rear springs. This is evidenced by checking a parts catalog. Hence a 3/4 and 1 ton have the same payload capabilities with some modification. (for the SRW variety. A dually is a different dog). This is likely why you don't see a lot of 3/4s in the ditch, or broke down beside the road, being passed by 1 tons carrying the same load. In the final analysis, folks are going to continue to argue about the physical matter of the trucks vs what the door stickers sez.
I don't have a dog in this fight anyway but its an interesting discussion. But I'd be willing to bet that most wrecks involving truck/camper combinations are cause by something other than towing a rig with a pin weight a little above the stated payload rating.

My 250 equipped with the camper package actually has heavier springs than many F350's. I have no fear towing our next 5er. We have no plans on going with 42 ft or a triple axle toy hauler but a decent sized unit.

[drittal]

15,000lb 5er is going to have a minimum safe pin weight of ~2,250lbs. Up to 3750lbs. Let's assume 2250...

How much does your hitch weigh? ~200lbs
Wife? ~120lbs
Kids?
Transfer tanks and fuel?
Blocking?
Misc gear?

That 2700 is gone in a hurry assuming minimum safe pin weight.

[OldCoot]

Originally Posted by drittal

15,000lb 5er is going to have a minimum safe pin weight of ~2,250lbs. Up to 3750lbs. Let's assume 2250...

How much does your hitch weigh? ~200lbs
Wife? ~120lbs
Kids?
Transfer tanks and fuel?
Blocking?
Misc gear?

That 2700 is gone in a hurry assuming minimum safe pin weight.

Would you venture a swag on my 12 Flagstaff 8528RKWS pin wt? I know exactly what it is with the front loaded and the kitchen completely empty of food, etc.

[hbillsmith]

My starting point finding a 5er that my 2500 can carry and pull is to first look at those that the mfg says are "half-ton" towable. It seems that most of those work out nicely loaded on a 3/4 ton truck. That's my story and I'm stickin' to it ;-)

[CWSWine]

It’s really hard to figure pin weights without bring you truck and 5er to the scales. My 5er on the website was showing a 19% of 5er weight on the pin for 1953. It has CCC of 2427 so I figured staying with the 19% I took 19% of CCC of 2427, which is 461lbs so, add that to 1953 you have SWAG of 2414 max pin weight with the 5er at 12,350 lbs.
My sticker on the truck states a CCC of 3744. I brought the truck to the scales with my wife, me, the hitch, rubber bed mat, full tank of fuel, small tool bag and normal stuff you carry in truck. The scale weight was steer axle weighted 4740 (diesel engine) and rear axle weight 3480 for total weight of 8220. Now subtract that from 11500 GVWR leaves you with real truck CCC of max of 3280.
My 5er scale weight was 11,380 with a pin weight of 2740, which is 24.1% of the gross weight of the 5er jumping up from 19%. The 5er jumped from advertized weight of 9926 and 19% to 11380 and 24.1% pin weight. Max Gross Weight of the 5er is 12,350 assuming the percentage stayed at 24.1 that would give a pin of 2976. Which would give me a margin 304 before exceeding my max GVWR of 11,500.
Now if I took that same 24.1% pin weight times my max towing of 15,000 that would a pin weight of 3615 which would exceed the 11,500 GVWR. You don’t know till you hit scales what the real percentage will be.

I have friend that weight his at it weight 14,350 and had pin weight of 3040 pin weight and about 21% of gross weight and his advertized pin weight was right at 20% but it was not FR product.

I do have all the weight tickets if someone is interested in checking my numbers.

[Mtelkman]

Originally Posted by OldCoot

Would you venture a swag on my 12 Flagstaff 8528RKWS pin wt? I know exactly what it is with the front loaded and the kitchen completely empty of food, etc.

My 8528RKWS has a pin weight of 1550 pounds (18%) loaded and ready to roll. The 8528RKWS is one of the lightest pin weight 5er unit that Forest River sells. The factory brochure lists it as 1089 pounds.

I am overweight on payload according to my door tag. As my sig says, I drive a F250 diesel 4X4. I upgraded to heavier rear springs and have tires and wheels that are rated way above what I need. It tows like a dream through the Rocky Mountains or wherever. Door payload stickers are not the final word on what can be towed safely.

[OldCoot]

Originally Posted by Mtelkman

My 8528RKWS has a pin weight of 1550 pounds (18%) loaded and ready to roll...

That is a LOT heavier than mine and I actually measured the pin wt with my Sherline Gauge. I am in the process of eliminating some junk in the front bay and TOWTA is in the process of loading the rear kitchen cabinets which were completely empty when I measured the wt. Will measure it again when the front is de-junked and the kitchen is loaded.

[B and B]

Originally Posted by drittal

15,000lb 5er is going to have a minimum safe pin weight of ~2,250lbs. Up to 3750lbs. Let's assume 2250...

How much does your hitch weigh? ~200lbs
Wife? ~120lbs
Kids?
Transfer tanks and fuel?
Blocking?
Misc gear?

That 2700 is gone in a hurry assuming minimum safe pin weight.

Hitch 200
Wife NOYB
No Kids, 14 dog
Transfer tank NO, need to go pee once in a while
Blocks in trailer

The minimum safe weight for the Pin according to who? What trailer are you quoting? %

[B and B]

Originally Posted by Mtelkman

My 8528RKWS has a pin weight of 1550 pounds (18%) loaded and ready to roll. The 8528RKWS is one of the lightest pin weight 5er unit that Forest River sells. The factory brochure lists it as 1089 pounds.

I am overweight on payload according to my door tag. As my sig says, I drive a F250 diesel 4X4. I upgraded to heavier rear springs and have tires and wheels that are rated way above what I need. It tows like a dream through the Rocky Mountains or wherever. Door payload stickers are not the final word on what can be towed safely.

X2 Stickers are a guide.
Same as a pack of smokes, warning label on the front. People still smoke.

[CWSWine]

Mtelkman From the factory specs of 14% yours jumped 4% to 18% - mine jumped 5% from 19% to 24%. Seems there is a tread here.

[Mtelkman]

Originally Posted by OldCoot

That is a LOT heavier than mine and I actually measured the pin wt with my Sherline Gauge. I am in the process of eliminating some junk in the front bay and TOWTA is in the process of loading the rear kitchen cabinets which were completely empty when I measured the wt. Will measure it again when the front is de-junked and the kitchen is loaded.

Mine was weighed at an Oregon DOT truck scale so they only give you rounded numbers. 5er total weight was 8450 pounds (labeled max capacity is 9181). Unhooked tow vehicle rear 3150 pounds, with "Dora the Explorer" hooked up the rear weight is 4700. I have 2 group 27 batteries and a 3 drawer tool box in the front storage.

[CWSWine]

Originally Posted by B and B

X2 Stickers are a guide.
Same as a pack of smokes, warning label on the front. People still smoke.

Yep, like saying speed limits are just guide to safe speeds but you can safely exceed them.

[CWSWine]

Originally Posted by Mtelkman

Mine was weighed at an Oregon DOT truck scale so they only give you rounded numbers. 5er total weight was 8450 pounds (labeled max capacity is 9181). Unhooked tow vehicle rear 3150 pounds, with "Dora the Explorer" hooked up the rear weight is 4700. I have 2 group 27 batteries and a 3 drawer tool box in the front storage.

Yours did the same thing mine did. You added 805lbs of cargo and the pin weight jumped 461 lbs. I added about 1180 lbs and 760 lbs went to the pin weight. People told me that couldn't happen but I see you are another one that the same thing happened to.