Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-03-2016, 07:42 PM   #21
Site Team - Lou
 
Herk7769's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: South Eastern PA
Posts: 21,154
Quote:
Originally Posted by CWSWine View Post
It was explained to me that the difference in total axle weights and the GVWR is because the Axle Ratings are based off static weight. During towing static weight can increase by 30% or more - like you are going down a hill and put the brakes on the weight from the RV will shift forward on to the pin. The guy that was explaining this was a worked for Ford in the engineering department and now retired and teaching at college engineering classes part time.
Thank you, I have no doubt you are correct.

In my case (2008 GMC Sierra 2500HD Crew Cab), the GVWR is 9300 pounds; in 2010 the company made a frame change from "C" to "Boxed" and the GVWR increased to 10,300 pounds with identical axles front and rear.
__________________

__________________

Lou and Laura with Bella - German Short Hair Pointer
2008 GMC Sierra 2500HD Crewcab SB Allison Duramax
2010 Flagstaff 8526RLWS - Superglide 3300
HAM CALLSIGN - KC3FFW
Herk7769 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2016, 07:49 PM   #22
Senior Member
 
CaptnJohn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Eastern NC
Posts: 2,707
3
Quote:
Originally Posted by checkmate99 View Post
Pretty sure Forest River's published dry weights include full propane tanks.
All builders weigh with full propane since 2013
__________________

__________________
2017 Montana HC 370BR
2016 F350 diesel
Edgewater 205 EX 150 Yamaha
CaptnJohn is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2016, 08:08 PM   #23
Senior Member
 
CWSWine's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 1,010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Herk7769 View Post
Thank you, I have no doubt you are correct.

In my case (2008 GMC Sierra 2500HD Crew Cab), the GVWR is 9300 pounds; in 2010 the company made a frame change from "C" to "Boxed" and the GVWR increased to 10,300 pounds with identical axles front and rear.
That does sound like the frame is the limited factor and not the axles.
__________________
2017 Fleetwood Discovery LXE 40D Diesel Pusher 41 foot. CC 5740
2017 Solitude 310GK-R Pick Up Oct 24th.
2016 GMC Denali 1 ton Cargo Capacity 3722 lbs
Sold 2016 Keystone Montana 3711FL
Sold - 2015 Crusader 315RST 5th Wheel -
2015 Ford F350 SRW Cargo Capacity 3744
CWSWine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2016, 08:38 PM   #24
Oklahoma Proud
 
MillerTime's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: central OK
Posts: 2,774
Quote:
Originally Posted by Herk7769 View Post
Thank you, I have no doubt you are correct.

In my case (2008 GMC Sierra 2500HD Crew Cab), the GVWR is 9300 pounds; in 2010 the company made a frame change from "C" to "Boxed" and the GVWR increased to 10,300 pounds with identical axles front and rear.
Front axle and suspension components changed as well as internal parts in the rear housing from what ive read. Brakes are bigger too if i recall correctly. As well as hub/lug size.
This is what i had seen from the comparisons of the 2010 to the updated 2011 chassis. The new chassis is also reportedly about 300lb heavier than the previous one.

Heres my sticker ratings for my gmc 3500. Axle ratings about 1950 lb more than gvwr.
I dont know why some people will throw out the gvwr and only go by the individual axle ratings.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	1459730253951.jpg
Views:	76
Size:	105.7 KB
ID:	103789  
__________________
MillerTime is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2016, 08:53 PM   #25
Site Team - Lou
 
Herk7769's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: South Eastern PA
Posts: 21,154
Quote:
Originally Posted by MillerTime View Post
Front axle and suspension components changed as well as internal parts in the rear housing from what ive read. Brakes are bigger too if i recall correctly. As well as hub/lug size.
This is what i had seen from the comparisons of the 2010 to the updated 2011 chassis. The new chassis is also reportedly about 300lb heavier than the previous one.

Heres my sticker ratings for my gmc 3500. Axle ratings about 1950 lb more than gvwr.
I dont know why some people will throw out the gvwr and only go by the individual axle ratings.
Thanks. I was repeating what I was told by the dealership when I asked about the changes. Not a motorhead myself. I do know just enough not to overload my truck.
__________________

Lou and Laura with Bella - German Short Hair Pointer
2008 GMC Sierra 2500HD Crewcab SB Allison Duramax
2010 Flagstaff 8526RLWS - Superglide 3300
HAM CALLSIGN - KC3FFW
Herk7769 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2016, 08:57 PM   #26
Oklahoma Proud
 
MillerTime's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: central OK
Posts: 2,774
Quote:
Originally Posted by Herk7769 View Post
Thanks. I was repeating what I was told by the dealership when I asked about the changes. Not a motorhead myself. I do know just enough not to overload my truck.
Thats just what id read.
I know the wheels wont interchange though.
I do know my new truck has a lot more beefy looking parts than my old duramax.

Anyways....carry on!
__________________
MillerTime is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2016, 11:23 PM   #27
Junior Member
 
fljl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by RubberNail View Post
You'll find conflicting opinions on this. I've been RVing since the mid 70s, pulled and driven most all of the different types, from slide-in campers to class "A's". Currently have a class "C" MH and a 33' 5th wheel. I got out of two 1 ton DRW to get a 3/4 SRW so I could park where I wanted, and go thru the car wash. My rule is don't exceed the GCWR of the truck (truck + trailer) and don't exceed the rear axle rating, in my case 6000#. I don't worry the GVWR unless what I'm pulling, or hauling, is something that doesn't have it's own brakes (read slide-in camper). Too many people trading away perfectly capable trucks to achieve a payload capacity that's not necessary. Two parameters with trailers: GCWR and RAWR!!
I agree totally, all highway trucks are rated by each axle added together, moving or standing still. It's the small trucks that have a payload # that does NOT add up to axles.

"In reality if you add the front and rear axle ratings together, you will find the total is more than the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating of the truck. The reason for this is the frame of the truck is the limiting factor in every case (I have found anyway). Yes, it is possible to be under your individual axle ratings, yet still be overloaded."

However are there any HEAVIER parts other than springs between the 2500 HD and SRW 3500HD GMC's? When I do the math I get a diff of 30lbs in truck weight. I say NO, till check parts at dealership.

Maybe the people who bought TOO big a truck only go by GVWR?
__________________
fljl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2016, 11:59 PM   #28
Senior Member
 
CaptnJohn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Eastern NC
Posts: 2,707
Quote:
Originally Posted by fljl View Post

However are there any HEAVIER parts other than springs between the 2500 HD and SRW 3500HD GMC's? When I do the math I get a diff of 30lbs in truck weight. I say NO, till check parts at dealership.

Maybe the people who bought TOO big a truck only go by GVWR?
I have had several Ford people tell me the only difference is in the springs and the F250/F350 badge on the hood. Frame, brakes, drive train all the same. Difference can come with options which can change axel ratings.

I used to think there could not be too much truck. Then I bought a 1 ton dually. Huge mistake. My F250 diesel with a 2472 payload and 15,100 trailer comfortably pulls my 5er. Hard enough at times finding a parking place big enough even when pushing the button to withdraw the mirrors. They don't make parking spaces for anything but a Honda any more.
__________________
2017 Montana HC 370BR
2016 F350 diesel
Edgewater 205 EX 150 Yamaha
CaptnJohn is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2016, 12:35 AM   #29
Junior Member
 
fljl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 17
The Initial costs between 2500 and 3500 are NOT much diff, how much could springs cost? Will let you know.
__________________
fljl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2016, 08:59 AM   #30
Site Team - Lou
 
Herk7769's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: South Eastern PA
Posts: 21,154
I do know this; GVWR is based on the part that will break FIRST. It says absolutely nothing about which part will break second.

I had this talk with an engineer at Lippert when I wanted to upgrade my axles and brakes to increase the payload of my Ultralite.

They said that doing so would not help with my payload and be a waste of money. He said that to order to find the actual weight increase (if any) by replacing a potentially "controlling part" and actually finding out what the next "controlling part"'s weight restriction was, they would have to go back and re-engineer the camper with that part installed.

The stiffer axles would cause different forces to be exerted on the totality of the design than when the initial design study was done.

There would be no way to tell what would break next without a new study. It could be the frame from the stiffer ride; it could be the side walls from not having enough stiffeners (interior framework) to support the increased weight (resulting in cracks at the window and slide penetrations); or it could be the pin box mounting structure.

Trucks, cars, RVs, and aircraft all use similar modalities of failure modeling.

You exceed plated numbers at your own risk.
__________________

__________________

Lou and Laura with Bella - German Short Hair Pointer
2008 GMC Sierra 2500HD Crewcab SB Allison Duramax
2010 Flagstaff 8526RLWS - Superglide 3300
HAM CALLSIGN - KC3FFW
Herk7769 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
5th wheel, weight, wheel

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



» Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by




ForestRiverForums.com is not in any way associated with Forest River, Inc. or its associated RV manufacturing divisions.


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:02 AM.