Question regarding 5th wheel pin weight

[todtc318]

Does the entire pin weight of a fifth wheel count towards payload in the tow vehicle? I'm assuming so since it seems logical that the pin weight is carried in the bed of the truck. Just looking around for fun I see that my F 250 can tow most popular 5th wheels in terms of max towing and GCVWR but the pin weights are near or at my max payload. BTW, totally happy with our TT but always looking to get educated.

Thanks!

[BandJCarm]

I'm the dummy/novice on this...........but this is the VERY reason that I traded for a Dually in advance of ordering our 5er. I had towing capacity with the 3/4 ton, but it had payload of 2,286 and my pin weight unloaded will be 2,407, and more loaded. I was over the limit before I started. Luckily, I got a great deal on a Dually........but it is Payload that made my decision.

[Otegoans]

I just went thru all the calculations on my truck to choose a 5th wheel. Yes, the entire pin wt. must be calculated, plus the wt. of the hitch and a percentage of any gear you might add to the coach. there is a sticker on your left door jamb giving you the rear gross axel weight rating. Have the rear axel weighed at a Cat scale or a recycling center. Subtract the actual wt. from the GAWR of the rear axel. The difference is what you can safely carry. I hope this helps , see you on the road!

[bikendan]

Yes, the entire pin weight factors towards payload.

[GreenImp]

Great job doing the math and dispelling the myth that is truck manufacturers marketing. As long as the trailer is properly loaded, TV payload will pretty much always be the limiting factor...at least with SRW trucks...I've never bothered with doing the math on a dually as personally, I would sooner get a smaller trailer.

Side note...Why don't they make a dually where the axle is narrower and all four tires fit in the standard width bed? I realize the space between the wheelhouses would be reduced, but I am pretty sure there would still be plenty of room for a 5th wheel hitch. I would consider this option long before buying one the way they build them now.

[5er_tom]

Years ago Chevy made a one-off dually that way. Sure reduced bed space, but it would fit in a standard garage. Must not have generated enough interest they did not make them.


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[Tfort]

Originally Posted by GreenImp

Great job doing the math and dispelling the myth that is truck manufacturers marketing. As long as the trailer is properly loaded, TV payload will pretty much always be the limiting factor...at least with SRW trucks...I've never bothered with doing the math on a dually as personally, I would sooner get a smaller trailer.

Side note...Why don't they make a dually where the axle is narrower and all four tires fit in the standard width bed? I realize the space between the wheelhouses would be reduced, but I am pretty sure there would still be plenty of room for a 5th wheel hitch. I would consider this option long before buying one the way they build them now.

Part of the added stability of a dually is the wider stance. Narrowing it to fit in the fenders would bring you back to the same functionality of a SRW 1 ton. The limit difference between the two is the total tire capacity of 4 versus 2 tires.


2000 F250 CC 4x4 7.3L diesel

15 Salem Hemisphere Lite356QB

[CaptnJohn]

There are many 5ers with pin weights from 1200# - 1700# just as there are some at twice that. Since you own the truck look around and you should be able to find what you want.

[hbillsmith]

As previously said, entire pin weight goes against payload. Another caution has to do with equipment adds. Your 3/4 ton will have a posted payload in the door jam of the truck but that will be reduced for the following: side steps added aftermarket, airbags, total hitch (if it's 2 parts, add both), bed cover, bed liner.

Best way to get the true Payload is to go to a CAT scale and weigh the truck with all your stuff in it. Look at the door jam GVWR (my 2500 is 10,000). Subtract your CAT score from the GVWR and that's your remaining Payload for the trailer.

Now when shopping for the 5er, remember the mfg published pin weight doesn't include the 60# battery and the dual 45# propane tanks.

Some experienced towers compare their payload numbers to whats available for the truck's published rear axle and tires. For instance, my truck's GVWR is 10,000 but the GWR for the front axle plus the rear axle is 11,200. My rig fully loaded is about 1,000 below the Rear rating but almost exactly on the GVWR rating.

[fljl]

Originally Posted by hbillsmith

Best way to get the true Payload is to go to a CAT scale and weigh the truck with all your stuff in it. Look at the door jam GVWR (my 2500 is 10,000). Subtract your CAT score from the GVWR and that's your remaining Payload for the trailer.
Some experienced towers compare their payload numbers to whats available for the truck's published rear axle and tires. For instance, my truck's GVWR is 10,000 but the GWR for the front axle plus the rear axle is 11,200.

Adding all the axles is how ALL other highway trucks are calculated on any scales, or road checks. My straight 3 axle farm has a 12,000 + 2 - 20,000 axles = GVWR of 52,000 lbs. Therefore a 2500 is at 11,200, if weighed on the highway. And max towing , GCWR = 24,500, SAME as a 3500 SRW. Just stay under axles and all is legal.You need to be licensed for that GCWR also, check if those axle weights can be licensed.

[Kenny kustom]

Originally Posted by 5er_tom

Years ago Chevy made a one-off dually that way. Sure reduced bed space, but it would fit in a standard garage. Must not have generated enough interest they did not make them.


Sent from my iPhone using Forest River Forums

I saw a build thread.
Guy in Alaska, took a ram 5500.
Made it a srw with 16 ply tires.
Kept the same gvwr. It was crazy.
Put a srw bed on it too.
Full air ride.


2016 Sabre 36QBOK
2015 Ram 3500 CUMMINS

[RubberNail]

You'll find conflicting opinions on this. I've been RVing since the mid 70s, pulled and driven most all of the different types, from slide-in campers to class "A's". Currently have a class "C" MH and a 33' 5th wheel. I got out of two 1 ton DRW to get a 3/4 SRW so I could park where I wanted, and go thru the car wash. My rule is don't exceed the GCWR of the truck (truck + trailer) and don't exceed the rear axle rating, in my case 6000#. I don't worry the GVWR unless what I'm pulling, or hauling, is something that doesn't have it's own brakes (read slide-in camper). Too many people trading away perfectly capable trucks to achieve a payload capacity that's not necessary. Two parameters with trailers: GCWR and RAWR!!

[Kenny kustom]

Why is it, the only ones disputing gvwr, are the ones that are running over gross in 3/4T??

Gvwr is the most important.

Why adhere to combined, and rear axle... But toss out gvwr?

2016 Sabre 36QBOK
2015 Ram 3500 CUMMINS

[checkmate99]

Originally Posted by GreenImp

Great job doing the math and dispelling the myth that is truck manufacturers marketing. As long as the trailer is properly loaded, TV payload will pretty much always be the limiting factor...at least with SRW trucks...I've never bothered with doing the math on a dually as personally, I would sooner get a smaller trailer.

Side note...Why don't they make a dually where the axle is narrower and all four tires fit in the standard width bed? I realize the space between the wheelhouses would be reduced, but I am pretty sure there would still be plenty of room for a 5th wheel hitch. I would consider this option long before buying one the way they build them now.

X 2!

[checkmate99]

Originally Posted by hbillsmith

As previously said, entire pin weight goes against payload. Another caution has to do with equipment adds. Your 3/4 ton will have a posted payload in the door jam of the truck but that will be reduced for the following: side steps added aftermarket, airbags, total hitch (if it's 2 parts, add both), bed cover, bed liner.

Best way to get the true Payload is to go to a CAT scale and weigh the truck with all your stuff in it. Look at the door jam GVWR (my 2500 is 10,000). Subtract your CAT score from the GVWR and that's your remaining Payload for the trailer.

Now when shopping for the 5er, remember the mfg published pin weight doesn't include the 60# battery and the dual 45# propane tanks.

Some experienced towers compare their payload numbers to whats available for the truck's published rear axle and tires. For instance, my truck's GVWR is 10,000 but the GWR for the front axle plus the rear axle is 11,200. My rig fully loaded is about 1,000 below the Rear rating but almost exactly on the GVWR rating.

Pretty sure Forest River's published dry weights include full propane tanks.

[CWSWine]

Originally Posted by Kenny kustom

Why is it, the only ones disputing gvwr, are the ones that are running over gross in 3/4T??

Gvwr is the most important.

Why adhere to combined, and rear axle... But toss out gvwr?

2016 Sabre 36QBOK
2015 Ram 3500 CUMMINS

Heck Kenny a lot of people throw out GVWR, GAWR, GCWR and just go by what the website says they can tow. IE F150 can tow 11,500lbs

[Kenny kustom]

Originally Posted by CWSWine

Heck Kenny a lot of people throw out GVWR, GAWR, GCWR and just go by what the website says they can tow. IE F150 can tow 11,500lbs

I have noticed..... Just look at the daily 1/2 ton fifth threads..


2016 Sabre 36QBOK
2015 Ram 3500 CUMMINS

[Herk7769]

Originally Posted by Otegoans

Subtract the actual wt. from the GAWR of the rear axel. The difference is what you can safely carry. I hope this helps , see you on the road!

Many folks think that as long as they are under their axle ratings they are "good to go".

In reality if you add the front and rear axle ratings together, you will find the total is more than the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating of the truck. The reason for this is the frame of the truck is the limiting factor in every case (I have found anyway). Yes, it is possible to be under your individual axle ratings, yet still be overloaded.

[OldCoot]

I guess I better plan on reinforcing my Silverado frame.

[CWSWine]

Originally Posted by Herk7769

Many folks think that as long as they are under their axle ratings they are "good to go".

In reality if you add the front and rear axle ratings together, you will find the total is more than the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating of the truck. The reason for this is the frame of the truck is the limiting factor in every case (I have found anyway). Yes, it is possible to be under your individual axle ratings, yet still be overloaded.

It was explained to me that the difference in total axle weights and the GVWR is because the Axle Ratings are based off static weight. During towing static weight can increase by 30% or more - like you are going down a hill and put the brakes on the weight from the RV will shift forward on to the pin. The guy that was explaining this was a worked for Ford in the engineering department and now retired and teaching at college engineering classes part time.