Ram Rebel 1500 Towing Experience- A cautionary tale

[emm-dee]

Originally Posted by FrankG

My thoughts, I have a 2016 2500 Ram Laramie 4x4 short bed with the Cummins and 68RFE transmission, Air Bags added. With passengers, dogs, fuel and fifth wheel hitch it scales at 9000 lbs.

This is the 10th Pick-up we've owned in the last 50 years including Powerstrokes and DRW.

This is the smoothest, quietest, best pulling, and best riding of them all.

We pull a 12,500 lb fifth wheel with a 2100 lb pin wt. It pulls it, handles the load, and stops it with authority.

The OP is making a good choice.

So, with 2,100 pounds of pin weight added you're now 1,100 pounds over max weight. Curious why folks seem to think it's just fine to add that much overload to a 2500 but adding 150 pounds overload on a 1500 is unacceptable.

[CaptnJohn]

Originally Posted by emm-dee

So, with 2,100 pounds of pin weight added you're now 1,100 pounds over max weight. Curious why folks seem to think it's just fine to add that much overload to a 2500 but adding 150 pounds overload on a 1500 is unacceptable.

I'm betting more than 2100 PW and more than 1100 over max. Not acceptable but truck and camper salespeople tell them all is fine. They believe it even when they are certain it is a total lie.

[sierramister]

Originally Posted by CaptnJohn

I'm betting more than 2100 PW and more than 1100 over max. Not acceptable but truck and camper salespeople tell them all is fine. They believe it even when they are certain it is a total lie.

I've thought about this a bit... I had a RAM dealer and a Forest River dealer both look me square in the eye and promise that the Rebel will be fine towing a 31BHSS. The RAM dealer even said that you can go over payload as long as you're under max towing.

This mistake of honestly consulting "experts" has cost me $6000 or more in terms of buying the proper vehicle. If I only had a signature from either dealer I could hold somebody else liable for fraud. Both dealers committed fraud in my opinion. Either a signature, or I'm going to start recording all of my conversations at the dealerships.

[FrankG]

Originally Posted by emm-dee

So, with 2,100 pounds of pin weight added you're now 1,100 pounds over max weight. Curious why folks seem to think it's just fine to add that much overload to a 2500 but adding 150 pounds overload on a 1500 is unacceptable.

Could you please tell me what component is overloaded, or am I just exceeding some arbitrary number mandated to be attached to every truck with "2500" stuck to the side of it?

Am I exceeding the number on the door pillar, yes. Do I think I am putting anyone in danger, Absolutely not! Every vital component is the same in the Ram 2500 and the 3500 with identical power train components except the coil springs verse the leaf springs in the 3500. This deficiency was negated by the addition of air bags. Does the above hold true for other combinations or manufactures, I don't think so, there are known differences. The structural integrity of the coil spring rear components to handle the 800 ft lb of torque at full GCWR by far exceed its ability to handle additional load.

Vehicle compared, Ram 2500 4x4 Laramie, short bed, CTD with 68RFE

[CaptnJohn]

Originally Posted by sierramister

I've thought about this a bit... I had a RAM dealer and a Forest River dealer both look me square in the eye and promise that the Rebel will be fine towing a 31BHSS. The RAM dealer even said that you can go over payload as long as you're under max towing.

This mistake of honestly consulting "experts" has cost me $6000 or more in terms of buying the proper vehicle. If I only had a signature from either dealer I could hold somebody else liable for fraud. Both dealers committed fraud in my opinion. Either a signature, or I'm going to start recording all of my conversations at the dealerships.

After explaining "payload" to a sales manager at a truck dealership he set up a session with his staff for the same explanation. Salespeople have no clue. Almost zero RV salespeople do either. I watched a customer dress down a CW salesman when told his new Ram was not enough truck for the 5er he wanted. His truck salesman told him the 2500 diesel could tow any 5er made. Funny how many people lack common sense and believe that inaccurate info. The salespeople are not experts. They are not trained. Fraud? No, as it is unintentional. Look at all those that believe being over one or more numbers is fine, almost like a goal. I had a 2016 F250 when I bought the Montana. After a short talk to my lawyer I traded for an F350. States are missing out~ if they would do random payload checks they could make a fortune (and open up some campsites).

[m2kamp]

Originally Posted by sierramister

I think we're still not at the bottom of the this door-sticker-vs-150-pound-plus-fuel discussion.

VIN lookup from RAM (both consumer site and dealer site) say *my specific RAM 2500* has a payload of 2400. Door sticker says 2200.

Same deal on my Rebel... ~950 on the door and ~1100 from VIN lookup.

From the Ram Owners manual (2017):

"Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR)

The GVWR is the total permissible weight of your vehicle
including driver, passengers, vehicle, options and cargo.
The label also specifies maximum capacities of front and
rear axle systems (GAWR). Total load must be limited so
GVWR and front and rear GAWR are not exceeded.

Payload

The payload of a vehicle is defined as the allowable load
weight a truck can carry, including the weight of the driver,
all passengers, options and cargo.

Gross Axle Weight Rating (GAWR)

The GAWR is the maximum permissible load on the front
and rear axles. The load must be distributed in the cargo
area so that the GAWR of each axle is not exceeded.
Each axle GAWR is determined by the components in the
system with the lowest load carrying capacity (axle,
springs, tires or wheels). Heavier axles or suspension
components sometimes specified by purchasers for increased
durability does not necessarily increase the vehicle’s
GVWR."

Regarding Ram Tire Loading, the pressures are spec'd to the GAWRs not GVWR. That explains the 12k+ load carrying on a 10K GVWR 2500.

[goduc]

I bet if you hooked up FrankG's 5th wheel to a 3500 and towed it you wouldn't be able to tell the difference in a blind test.

[Dan50]

Originally Posted by Blackrock

When I bought my 2016 Ram 1500 they had a 1500 eco diesel and a Rebel on the lot and by comparing door stickers I went with a Ram 1500 in the base Express trim package with tow package which gave me a 1760# payload and is working out real well for me towing a superlite 5th wheel. A Ram 3500 diesel 4x4 top line package had a lower payload than the base 1500.

According to the manufacturer your trailer empty weighs 7600 lbs. That gives you a minimum pin weight of at least 1520 lbs(20%) and probably more. So once you put your stuff in the trailer increasing it's weight and add whoever and whatever is in the truck that counts as payload loaded up to camp you are way over your 1760 lbs payload..

[Hersbird]

Instead of buying a serious off road truck like a Rebel, Power Wagon, or Raptor, what most idiots with big diesels do is jack their trucks up with aftermarket suspensions and bugger tires and then figure they are still good to go with 2000+ pounds of payload because the sticker said so. Well that was stock, and the same reason the factory packages lose payload ability with a real off road suspension and tires is because what makes a good rock crawler makes a crappy load hauler.

[drittal]

Originally Posted by sierramister

I think we're still not at the bottom of the this door-sticker-vs-150-pound-plus-fuel discussion.



VIN lookup from RAM (both consumer site and dealer site) say *my specific RAM 2500* has a payload of 2400. Door sticker says 2200.



Same deal on my Rebel... ~950 on the door and ~1100 from VIN lookup.

There is no debate. The door sticker is an approximation. Vin look up, even more so.

True payload is the scale weight of your vehicle subtracted from GVWR. Everything put in or on the truck takes away from available payload.

[cristofer.a]

Guess it's the same story with me. I shopped and decided on the eco diesel was told by the dealer 10,500#''s as well and torque would be great. Well I bought my Salem 28CKDS @ 7600 #''s and sure enough I found out after that my truck is really 7660 towing capacity. Went to RAM to trade in and get a 3500 only to find out my 1 1/2 year old truck lost over 50% due to pending EPA lawsuit against RAM for using same mechanism as VW to falsify is diesel ratings. So now I have to wait to see if RAM will have to buy my fraudulent truck back from me

[TheGerman]

Wait ... the same dealer that lied to your face about the tow rating is telling you the truck is not worth anything because of the EPA conflict ? I wouldn't buy a bread from those guys...

The emissions issue has been resolved at the end of July AFAIK, the local dealer here is selling Ecodiesels again. Already sold trucks will get a software update.

[cristofer.a]

Yeah the software update supposedly drops the 27-28 mpg highway to @ 17-19. Theven mpg''s & towing capabilities is why I bought this truck

[2Bryans]

The software update dropped my mileage from 29 mpg hiway to 28 mpg hiway. Towing mileage dropped from 13-14 mpg to12-13 mpg. I have a 2016 ED Longhorn. TT is a Surveyor 266RLDS. Have towed It all over the Ozarks. I love this truck. Sounds like your dealer is trying to make more money off you.

[CaptnJohn]

Originally Posted by 2Bryans

The software update dropped my mileage from 29 mpg hiway to 28 mpg hiway. Towing mileage dropped from 13-14 mpg to12-13 mpg. I have a 2016 ED Longhorn. TT is a Surveyor 266RLDS. Have towed It all over the Ozarks. I love this truck. Sounds like your dealer is trying to make more money off you.

No wonder it is drooping ~~ "I have a 2016 ED Longhorn" ~~ Your Longhorn with ED lost the Viagra assistance.