Ram trucks

[Philos3]

"I don't think that is fair. The EPA reasonably wants companies to comply with the law and calls them on it when they don't." Unfortunately, as per below, you need to factor in political agendas.

The below per https://pjmedia.com/andrewmccarthy/2...s-war-on-coal/

Judge Preston Bailey has directed the EPA to comply with a straightforward statute that unambiguously requires the agency to evaluate the effects on employment of its plans to enforce the Clean Air Act.

The case arises out of the EPA’s issuance of draconian regulations of air pollutants from coal and oil power plants. The libertarian Cato Institute recounts that the regs “provide far less than a penny in benefits for each of the nearly $10 billion in costs it imposes on the U.S. economy.” The Supreme Court, in Michigan v. EPA (2015), has already slapped the agency down due to the irrationality of this enormous-cost/negligible-benefit formula that is clearly designed to annihilate these industries. But, Cato explains, EPA is doubling down by trying to justify its $10 billion price tag with benefits outside those the statute permits it to count (which it euphemistically calls “co-benefits”).

The West Virginia case, Murray Energy Corporation v. EPA, is a successive instance of the defiant agency’s effort to ram through its regulations heedless of judicial rulings.

(NO, the EPA has not statue law driven in the recent past political environment - expect a lot more EPA regulations to be stopped at the federal court level)

[Tiggerdad]

Originally Posted by Jim34RL

As an example the battery materiel that is mined in China for these batteries is highly pollutant and hazardous to the environment.

You are right about the hazard. It's Lithium and I believe it is Chile instead of China. And/or one or more South American country.

Not trying to pick on you. I had to go back and check my spelling on this post twice. Found 7 spelling errors. I have big, fat fingers and hunt and peck instead of typing.

[SidecarFlip]

Originally Posted by KyDan

The people of China wish they had an EPA.

I don't presume anything I know nothing about. China is a dictatorship so I would surmise that an agency like the EPA would not exist there.

Big article in the local rag this evening about FCA, the EPA and the fine, if levied, could be in the excess of 4 billion.

It also went on to state that it was the small diesel (3.0?) that was the crux of the complaint and Marchoni has denied any wrong doing (sound familiar? Vee-Dub like).... and that Marchoni would take up the complaint with the incoming President but...

Interestingly, FCA has suspended all new builds of the eco-diesel Ram and Jeep until further notice, however, existing inventories on dealer lots are still for sale...

Sounds to me like the price just became very negotiable....

All from the Toledo Blade, evening edition

This has all the earmarks of getting ugly.

[lbrjet]

Originally Posted by spock123

That's not really the problem it's when you develop software that is designed to cheat when you do the emissions test.


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That is not what FCA is accused of and the govt's complaint has nothing to do with an emissions test. They are accused not disclosing certain bits of code in their emissions software that in certain conditions allows NOX levels to exceed standards, but since in most conditions the levels are far below standards overall the levels are below standards so it it is perfectly legal. Basically the EPA is upset because they were not told exactly how it works and is having a hissy fit, not unlike many in Washington right now. This is an attempt to grab headlines and nothing more, not unlike the shaming the CPD yesterday. Sad really.


2010 F250 5.4L 3.73
2011 Flagstaff 831FKBSS
Equal-i-zer 4pt 12K

[spock123]

Originally Posted by lbrjet

That is not what FCA is accused of and the govt's complaint has nothing to do with an emissions test. They are accused not disclosing certain bits of code in their emissions software that in certain conditions allows NOX levels to exceed standards, but since in most conditions the levels are far below standards overall the levels are below standards so it it is perfectly legal. Basically the EPA is upset because they were not told exactly how it works and is having a hissy fit, not unlike many in Washington right now. This is an attempt to grab headlines and nothing more, not unlike the shaming the CPD yesterday. Sad really.


2010 F250 5.4L 3.73
2011 Flagstaff 831FKBSS
Equal-i-zer 4pt 12K

That's not what I see, I looked a little more and it's just not the EPA that's looking at this. Other countries are looking too. One thing it does is lets more emissions out the tailpipe plus it gives better fuel mileage and the engine does not use as much DEF. If it's okay to cheat why not just take the regen off my Silverado, I could sure use better fuel mileage. But it's okay a little more smog is not going to be a problem.


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[Funhaus]

Originally Posted by Oaklevel

....... The EPA reasonably wants .......... Now that's funny............. ever dealt with them ?????? ......

Yes I have, my job requires it.
I don't trust half of what they tell us.
Most of regulations that I have questioned in my field, they say they don't have definitive proof but they can only speculate.
Glad you can pass regulations on speculation.
They haven't even been able to prove Global Warming but spew that crap all the time.
NO...... I don't trust the EPA at all.

[SidecarFlip]

I'm not warm and fuzzy with any alphabet agency.

[Funhaus]

Originally Posted by SidecarFlip

I'm not warm and fuzzy with any alphabet agency.

Amen Brother!!!

[SidecarFlip]

Originally Posted by spock123

That's not what I see, I looked a little more and it's just not the EPA that's looking at this. Other countries are looking too. One thing it does is lets more emissions out the tailpipe plus it gives better fuel mileage and the engine does not use as much DEF. If it's okay to cheat why not just take the regen off my Silverado, I could sure use better fuel mileage. But it's okay a little more smog is not going to be a problem.


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Did that a while ago. Pulled everything off, even the crankcase breather. I have a road draft tube. Mileage jumped right up, just like I knew it would and my bumper now gets a nice black sooty tinge.... Last time I checked, 21 empty and 17 pulling.

Got rid of the funky intake plastic airbox too. Put a tuned runner on with a big K&N.

They run a lot cooler too. Heat is the enemy of any internal combustion engine and the emissions stuff, especially the EGR creates a lot of excess heat the motor has to dissipate.

Don't think I can pass a smog test anymore. Don't care.

[Wileykid]

The other countries are now looking because they have been embarrassed by the EPA/CARB in the VW scandal. Not saying the EPA is great (actually closer to opposite), but what the outcome has been is the public in the other countries have put political pressure on the politicians as to why they have not been enforcing their own laws.

FCA is being hammered for not declaring the software "deviations" they have. If it is valid or not, don't know. That will be hammered out in the future. All companies have this in their software, just apparently FCA may have not declared all of them properly. This is all vastly different from VW who intentionally wrote software to cheat the test, and when discovered, attempted to destroy any evidence (emails and computer files) they could.

Not really an environmentalist here, but for people to disable emission equipment on their vehicle is stupid at best. Selfish at least. When I was flying in the L.A. area in the late 70's, people on board would ask how much longer. I would just point to the big brown area, and say that is L.A.. Can't do that anymore. So something is working.

Mark

[SidecarFlip]

Whether FCA is dirty or not (pun intended), remains to be seen, however, Marchoni has pulled the 3 liter diesel from production, no more being made at this time and existing units can still be sold but no more coming for the immediate future....

To me, that is as close to an admission of guilt as one can have...

'He wants to discuss it with the incoming President' as I read in the paper the other day...

The whole thing kind of smells to me.

I own my last diesel anyway. If I buy another truck it will be a gas motor.

[lbrjet]

It is the EPA blowing this way out of proportion that smells to me.


2010 F250 5.4L 3.73
2011 Flagstaff 831FKBSS
Equal-i-zer 4pt 12K

[SailorSam20500]

Originally Posted by Funhaus

I don't trust half of what they tell us.
Most of regulations that I have questioned in my field, they say they don't have definitive proof but they can only speculate.
Glad you can pass regulations on speculation.
They haven't even been able to prove Global Warming but spew that crap all the time.
NO...... I don't trust the EPA at all.

Hopefully our new Prez will rein in some of the BS.

On the other hand, Global Warming has been proven - it's been getting warmer ever since the last ice age ended.
However, I don't believe mankind is making a significant impact or that anything we do will delay the inevitable much.

[Zak1]

This whole EPA Diesel thing is a joke. I've owned diesel trucks and my last diesel was a 2014 VW Passat. Best car i've ever owned for the money. 50 + mpg no matter how you drive or where you drive it. VW now has vowed it wil never ship another diesel into the US.
SAD

[RangeMaggotBob]

Originally Posted by Oaklevel

....... The EPA reasonably wants .......... Now that's funny............. ever dealt with them ?????? ......

You are so right. Hopefully they're going away...

[SidecarFlip]

Originally Posted by Zak1

This whole EPA Diesel thing is a joke. I've owned diesel trucks and my last diesel was a 2014 VW Passat. Best car i've ever owned for the money. 50 + mpg no matter how you drive or where you drive it. VW now has vowed it wil never ship another diesel into the US.
SAD

Can you blame them?

[Philos3]

"On the other hand, Global Warming has been proven - it's been getting warmer ever since the last ice age ended"

The problem is that the studies tying the warming to human beings are few and weak, so no, the argument isn't over with.

[spock123]

I have no plans to trade my Silverado 3500 diesel but should Trump roll back the fuel standards I will be looking to trade.


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