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Old 10-31-2017, 06:55 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by LLMRPh View Post
Does this apply to the EcoBoost in the Escapes also? I have a 2014 Escape Titanium EB .... best car/SUV I've ever owned. 95K miles and runs perfectly with never a single problem. Love the acceleration of the car! Amazing. But I'm scrupulous about oil changes at 5K miles even though it's supposed to be able to go longer.
Having the EB in my Escape is probably why I am a bit disappointed with my F250. Lol! And I did test drive an EB F150 which felt peppy like my SUV. So I'm one of those people hoping Ford comes out with an EB Super Duty soon. LOL.
You are a lucky one with your Escape. My company leases Escapes and Cherokees. Our drivers are dealing with constant recalls (engine fire), breakdowns, engine lights etc on the Escapes. We lease the SE and Titanium with the smaller ecoboost (1.6L). The drivers like them when they are running correctly. I try to steer them to the Cherokee as they've been reliable other than the occasionally quirky shifting 9spd auto.

I don't think we'll ever see a V6 Ecoboost in a Super Duty. 3.5L of engine braking in potentially 20k+ GCWR isn't going to cut it. Maybe with air brakes?

A V8 Ecoboost could work, but as mentioned before it would cut into Diesel sales.
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Old 10-31-2017, 07:46 AM   #42
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Sounds like you've talked yourself out of everything. I just pour diesel and def in mine and enjoy 765 ft lbs of torque. I guess I have to pay for a jug of def every year, but I don't think it's going to break me.
X2. I am on my 2nd Ram 2500 diesel. Still have not figured out what all the extra maintenance cost everyone talks about. I too enjoy the 800 ft lbs of torque. Along with the 11-12 mpg and knowing I can tow about anywhere with it.
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Old 10-31-2017, 08:31 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by Skyliner View Post
Direct injection coupled with 5w30 oil and twin turbos is hard on the oil and viscosity shearing = timing chain stretch. I used nothing but 5w40 in the two F150 ecoboob trucks I owned and was happy with their reliability. Newer F150 eb's now have port fuel injection to reduce intake valve buildup but the turbos still are hard on oil.

I wouldn't have a problem buying an F150 EB if I needed less capability.

My parents have an early 2011 EB with over 140K on it now. Never any mechanical issues. Always had standard dino oil changes at regular intervals. They've pulled everything from farm equipment to loaded gooseneck cattle trailers(HEAVY) to TTs. I had a 2013 EB that I put just over 30K on with no issues- ~20% of that was towing 6500-9500 pound TTs. The 2015 F250 6.7PSD I just traded had just over $3400 in warranty work done on emissions components at ~18K miles. Warranty on emissions components ends at 50K on the 6.7. I'm back to an F150 EB. After the first oil change I go to a high quality full synthetic and change every 5K.
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Old 10-31-2017, 08:37 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by KRSmitty View Post
X2. I am on my 2nd Ram 2500 diesel. Still have not figured out what all the extra maintenance cost everyone talks about. I too enjoy the 800 ft lbs of torque. Along with the 11-12 mpg and knowing I can tow about anywhere with it.
My problem with the current diesels is that I KNOW at some point something will break. It's guaranteed. This goes for any vehicle. Problem is that when it does on these new diesels, you KNOW it will be expensive. At some point you're going to have a fuel pump go out, or a DEF component failure, or a clogged DPF in need of replacement. The idea that at any moment I could have a repair bill that would run several thousand dollars scared me away from owning any new diesel outside of warranty.
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Old 10-31-2017, 09:16 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by LLMRPh View Post
Does this apply to the EcoBoost in the Escapes also?
I followed this from the F150 forums and I know the supplier that supplies the chains to Ford and working on debugging it.
I'm not sure if this affect the other applications of the EB engine since harmonics depends on the rpm's you run, etc.... So even on the first version of the F150 the problem will not show up in every single truck....
After you get used to low rpm torque is difficult to get used to other configurations...

I don't believe that Ford will develop the EB for the HD applications.
The engine is already "stretched" in the F150.....
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Old 10-31-2017, 09:45 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by RACarvalho View Post
I followed this from the F150 forums and I know the supplier that supplies the chains to Ford and working on debugging it.
I'm not sure if this affect the other applications of the EB engine since harmonics depends on the rpm's you run, etc.... So even on the first version of the F150 the problem will not show up in every single truck....
After you get used to low rpm torque is difficult to get used to other configurations...

I don't believe that Ford will develop the EB for the HD applications.
The engine is already "stretched" in the F150.....
My understanding is that they updated the timing chain several years ago and it's no longer an issue. And considering they just bumped the power ratings and the Raptor is now using an even more powerful version of the EB, not to mention the hordes of people using a basic tuner to achieve some really unbelievable power numbers from the EB in otherwise stock form- I'd have to say the engine is far from "stretched". But I've seen no one advocate using the 3.5L EB in an SD. Most seem to looking for a small TT V8. Could you imagine if Ford rolled out a TT 5.0 in a SuperDuty- if they could beat the current 6.2 V8 by only a couple MPG and put down 600+ ft. lbs and 500+ HP, I think it would sell like crazy. You'd possibly have MORE payload than the current 6.2 V8 (substantially more than a diesel), much less complexity than the current diesels, power that would rival the current diesels and less up front cost.
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Old 10-31-2017, 10:15 AM   #47
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My understanding is that they updated the timing chain several years ago and it's no longer an issue. And considering they just bumped the power ratings and the Raptor is now using an even more powerful version of the EB, not to mention the hordes of people using a basic tuner to achieve some really unbelievable power numbers from the EB in otherwise stock form- I'd have to say the engine is far from "stretched". But I've seen no one advocate using the 3.5L EB in an SD. Most seem to looking for a small TT V8. Could you imagine if Ford rolled out a TT 5.0 in a SuperDuty- if they could beat the current 6.2 V8 by only a couple MPG and put down 600+ ft. lbs and 500+ HP, I think it would sell like crazy. You'd possibly have MORE payload than the current 6.2 V8 (substantially more than a diesel), much less complexity than the current diesels, power that would rival the current diesels and less up front cost.
Yes, as I said, I believed the timing chain issues are fixed.
Getting more power from an engine is not the problem, the problem is for how long you will be doing that.
The EB is a departure from the America way of thinking and an adoption of the European thought.
I drove BMWs for the past 9 years and I towed my previous 5400lbs TT with a X5 for 12K miles.
It's just amazing how that little 3L I6 engine, w/o turbos, would not give up even when going up the IKE in Denver or towing under 110F in Nevada.
That being said, it is a "stretched" engine even if I could get a Dinan tune on it and bump the power 80% w/o blowing it.
With stretched I mean the design is not a HD design, it is a car design bumped for an off road kind of application and that lead to a constant maintenance status AFTER twice the warranty period.
Basically all the seals needed to be replaced, most of the sensors, several electric motors that drive pumps, fans, etc.... and the things go on and on.
Don't get me wrong, its a beautiful piece of engineering and can get the job done, as I proved, but it was made to have maintenance on a schedule that Americans in the past would not accept.
How that correlates to the EB?
Just see above the comments of EB owners about using 100% Synthetic oil and changes at 5K miles, etc.....
Many will say " I never had a problem in 100K miles" or " I have 200K miles with no problem", etc but if you tow heavy (like I was doing with the X5), which means HD application, things will show up.
If the EB was not stretched, Ford would already be offering it on the HD trucks.
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Old 10-31-2017, 10:40 AM   #48
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Take Care of It

I can only go by my own experience and to be clear I am not a mechanic. I have had my EB since I bought it new in 2011. The only real upgrade is the catback exhaust to heart throb. It has 171,000 miles on it. I am starting to have some relatively minor issues (O2 sensor, vacuum pump recall, etc) but I stay on top of the oil changes and the plugs and filter.

Now, I have nothing to base this on aside from my own gut but I do personally believe that a tuner on this motor can push it beyond it's design specs and it's just a matter of time before things will go. In my opinion, if you want this motor to last take care of it and keep it stock.

Just my experience.

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Old 10-31-2017, 11:14 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by RACarvalho View Post
Yes, as I said, I believed the timing chain issues are fixed.
Getting more power from an engine is not the problem, the problem is for how long you will be doing that.
The EB is a departure from the America way of thinking and an adoption of the European thought.
I drove BMWs for the past 9 years and I towed my previous 5400lbs TT with a X5 for 12K miles.
It's just amazing how that little 3L I6 engine, w/o turbos, would not give up even when going up the IKE in Denver or towing under 110F in Nevada.
That being said, it is a "stretched" engine even if I could get a Dinan tune on it and bump the power 80% w/o blowing it.
With stretched I mean the design is not a HD design, it is a car design bumped for an off road kind of application and that lead to a constant maintenance status AFTER twice the warranty period.
Basically all the seals needed to be replaced, most of the sensors, several electric motors that drive pumps, fans, etc.... and the things go on and on.
Don't get me wrong, its a beautiful piece of engineering and can get the job done, as I proved, but it was made to have maintenance on a schedule that Americans in the past would not accept.
How that correlates to the EB?
Just see above the comments of EB owners about using 100% Synthetic oil and changes at 5K miles, etc.....
Many will say " I never had a problem in 100K miles" or " I have 200K miles with no problem", etc but if you tow heavy (like I was doing with the X5), which means HD application, things will show up.
If the EB was not stretched, Ford would already be offering it on the HD trucks.
There are many people towing heavy here on the forums with excellent results from the 3.5L EB. Things "show up" on diesels towing heavy every day as well. I don't think you really know why Ford isn't using the 3.5L EB in the SD- so that's just conjecture. With this being said, I do think that Ford would likely make some changes for SD use. Maybe use a CGI block like the 2.7L EB and 6.7PSD. Maybe require a high quality fully synthetic oil at a 5K interval.
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Old 10-31-2017, 11:26 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by Martsing View Post
I can only go by my own experience and to be clear I am not a mechanic. I have had my EB since I bought it new in 2011. The only real upgrade is the catback exhaust to heart throb. It has 171,000 miles on it. I am starting to have some relatively minor issues (O2 sensor, vacuum pump recall, etc) but I stay on top of the oil changes and the plugs and filter.

Now, I have nothing to base this on aside from my own gut but I do personally believe that a tuner on this motor can push it beyond it's design specs and it's just a matter of time before things will go. In my opinion, if you want this motor to last take care of it and keep it stock.

Just my experience.

Marty
I agree for the most part. But I will add that the 3.5 EB seems to be quite "over-built". It seems you can add a good bit of power and still maintain reliability- but obviously it can be pushed into dangerous territory and you'll always be safest staying stock. The thing about forced induction engines is that it's really easy to increase boost and make amazing increases in power. A tune on an EB might yield another 100ft. lbs whereas a NA V8 might gain 20 on a tune, for example. Some of the major tuning companies even offer 6yr/100K engine warranties with their tunes. I don't think they'd be offering that unless they're confident that the EB can take it.
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Old 10-31-2017, 11:28 AM   #51
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