Sales vs towing knowledge

[jwedell]

Well Said

[KDHfan]

Sometimes you (think) the homework is complete so you can make an informed decision, but you still get burned. Two years ago I was looking to upgrade my TV. We needed to stay with an SUV because I drive the "family vehicle" (I'm a stay-at-home dad)... Researched my tow allowances for the Suburban, Sequoia and Armada. All three would tow any camper i'd want to tow (under 26'), or so I thought. So it came down to price vs needs.
When I found the vehicle I wanted, I looked in the owners manual... Tow capacity stated 9000lbs. That wasn't enough for me. I called Nissan and spoke to someone in the technical dept. I gave them the VIN number and wanted the tow cap. Based off the VIN... Again, 9000lb tow. I made the purchase and started shopping TT's around 6,000lbs. Long story short, I came to the truth that my Armada SV is rated at just 6500lbs. Man did I feel like a fool. I love my new Rockwood 2306... But a little miffed about the process of how I came to own it.

So... How do you know for a certainty what the tow capacity is?

[Herk7769]

Originally Posted by KDHfan

So... How do you know for a certainty what the tow capacity is?

The door pillar has most everything you need these days.

If you plan on a travel trailer (for example), take the payload number off the pillar and subtract the weight of your family, gear and hitch of choice. Divide what is left of the payload by 0.15 for the maximum GVWR of the camper you should target.

If you are looking to buy a tow vehicle for your camper, take the GVWR of the camper and multiply it by 0.15 to find the maximum pin weight. Add your family, gear, and WD hitch weight (about 100 pounds) and shop for a truck with that available total payload.

Also make sure when you add the GVWRs of both vehicles it is less that the maximum combined weight on the pillar.

[Kaadk]

Originally Posted by KDHfan

So... How do you know for a certainty what the tow capacity is?

I don't think anybody can tell you for sure what your tow ratings are. When we first decided to go looking for a trailer, I spent months trying to find out my tow ratings. I got answers ranging anywhere between 5000 and 11000 lbs. I also got a ton of answers like "You shouldn't be trying to even tow a pop-up with a 1/2 ton."

Eventually I was pointed to the ram body builders guide which, as far as I know, is the closest thing to officially published numbers from Ram. Even with those I'm not 100% certain! But I feel confident my particular 1500's configuration means I'm rated for around 8200 lbs.

[jwedell]

I'm sure this will cause a real debate.
The general rule of thumb I use is as follows (only as the initial starting point)

1/2 ton pickup, dry hitch weight will be no more than 1/3 the maximum carrying capacity on the door jam of the vehicle.

3/4 ton pickup, dry hitch weight will be no more than 1/2 the maximum carrying capacity on the door jam of the vehicle.

1 ton, probably can pull any travel trailer

Anything else seek someone who really knows their stuff.

This is just my opinion and I always err on the side of safety. I have a 1/2 ton dodge with a carrying capacity of 1422 lbs. I settled on a surveyor sc 226rbds with a dry hitch weight of 492 lbs and all the numbers worked out fine. A higher hitch weight would put me over something.

[ependydad]

Originally Posted by Herk7769

The door pillar has most everything you need these days.

If you plan on a travel trailer (for example), take the payload number off the pillar and subtract the weight of your family, gear and hitch of choice. Divide what is left of the payload by 0.15 for the maximum GVWR of the camper you should target.

If you are looking to buy a tow vehicle for your camper, take the GVWR of the camper and multiply it by 0.15 to find the maximum pin weight. Add your family, gear, and WD hitch weight (about 100 pounds) and shop for a truck with that available total payload.

Also make sure when you add the GVWRs of both vehicles it is less that the maximum combined weight on the pillar.

My calculators at http://www.towingplanner.com do most of what you suggest above.

[Kaadk]

Originally Posted by ependydad

My calculators at http://www.towingplanner.com do most of what you suggest above.

I originally used the ones from changing gears. But that one didn't have a good explanation of what's what and I found you had to already know something about weights to really leverage it. I could see how it might be daunting to some people new to trailering. I haven't checked your site yet, but what I'd really like to see in a calculator is someone skin the doorjamb sticker and the trailer's yellow sticker so people like my mother can even punch in their numbers without trying to interpret what's what.

Edit: fixed grammar to account for interrupted train of thought, twice.

[jwedell]

Herk7769, your site is excellent. I use my numbers for quick evaluation like at the Boston RV Show to quickly size up trailers of interest. Since I could only carry 1500 lbs I only looked at trailers that weighed around 5000 lbs dry with a pin weigh of 500 lbs. if it was 5000 lbs dry with a pin weight of 900 lbs I would pass it up. After I found one I liked I would use your site to run the rest of the numbers to finish the calculations. If it was safe I would proceed from there.

[Herk7769]

Originally Posted by jwedell

Herk7769, your site is excellent.

You mean Doug's Site (Ependydad).

[jwedell]

Yep my error and apology.

[ependydad]

Originally Posted by Kaadk

I originally used the ones from changing gears. But that one didn't have a good explanation of what's what and I found you had to already know something about weights to really leverage it. I could see how it might be daunting to some people new to trailering. I haven't checked your site yet, but what I'd really like to see in a calculator is someone skin the doorjamb sticker and the trailer's yellow sticker so people like my mother can even punch in their numbers without trying to interpret what's what.

Edit: fixed grammar to account for interrupted train of thought, twice.

I think the only standard sticker is the Tire And Load Capacity. The others that show GAWR, GVWR all seem to be slightly different between brands and years. But, good idea- I'll see what I can do to help with it.

I do agree- most calculators were too intimidating for me. Even now, I have had to question and second guess what some of these are asking.

[ependydad]

Originally Posted by jwedell

Herk7769, your site is excellent. I use my numbers for quick evaluation like at the Boston RV Show to quickly size up trailers of interest. Since I could only carry 1500 lbs I only looked at trailers that weighed around 5000 lbs dry with a pin weigh of 500 lbs. if it was 5000 lbs dry with a pin weight of 900 lbs I would pass it up. After I found one I liked I would use your site to run the rest of the numbers to finish the calculations. If it was safe I would proceed from there.

Thanks for the kind words. I'm all ears for other ideas that you might have.

[jwedell]

You can drive yourself crazy with the numbers. At what point does it become insane. Even in your calculations working backwards using available capacity you need to add back the weight that is transferred to the trailer axles by the DW hitch. You can only figure out so much. Every time you take the rig out something changes. It's better to be slightly under then on the raged edge.

[ependydad]

I agree. I've used weighings to have a good idea of where we're at in general. I know there will be times that we deviate one way or the other.

[jwedell]

I leave the house I'm overweight. I burn 1/2 tank of gas I'm fine. That's not the way I want to travel.

[rockfordroo]

EVERY accident involving towing he had EVER seen was caused by driver error

What do you call pulling a trailer that's too big for your TV? I'd call THAT driver error!

[jevanb]

Originally Posted by jwedell

I leave the house I'm overweight. I burn 1/2 tank of gas I'm fine. That's not the way I want to travel.

buy a TV that can handle the weight... and that problem is fixed... or get a lighter camper and it is also fixed.. either way both will work. or do nothing and deal with it.. being overweight by say 10gals of gas/ or 75 lbs is no big deal IMO

[B and B]

Originally Posted by TeresaInCAL

B & B, how much weight can your truck tow with the King Ranch package?

Teresa, I have tow package and max tow. They quote 11,200 with the crew cab as equipped. I actually tow 9,000 lbs with 1700 pin weight fully loaded. I have according to maximum ratings 2,300 available total weight wise combined TV AND TT. The issue I have an most due is pin weight. I only have 300 lbs left there with a max pin with of 2000.
I just added MichelinLT tires and rid myself of p series stock.

I have lots of engine and drive train to tow up anything I encounter here.

I hope this helps.

I did use multiple trips to the local scale to confirm my weights.

Brian

[OldCoot]

Originally Posted by bikendan

dustman, i also believe in personal responsibility, which has decreased dramatically in the past few decades.
too many people anymore, want to lay the blame on others, rather than see that they are the ones responsible.

but i still feel that the salespeople/dealers also should bear some responsibility. if they inform the customer that what they want is too much for their tow vehicle, then the blame lies solely on the customer.

What about selling A class motor homes to folks that have never driven anything bigger that a car? Ya' can't keep people from buying whatever they think they want.

[rockfordroo]

Ya' can't keep people from buying whatever they think they want.

Or, as they say: You can't fix STUPID!