School me on E85, Flex Fuel

[CedarCreekWoody]

I used to have a Ford Expedition rated for E-85 but i never tried it. The manual said oil life was reduced, requiring more frequent change. I dont recall the reduction in life but I think it was significant.

[oldjim]

I refuse to use E85 period. It's bad for chain saws, lawnmowers, generators, and my Yamaha Road Star. With the EPA trying to shove this crap down our throats and raise the corn level even higher, in my opinion, it's a losing proposition.

[alsdas88]

A couple of years ago when I was stationed in San Diego, reg fuel was around $4 a gallon...E85 was priced just over $6. Felt bad for a co-worker who insisted her car could ONLY run on E85 because there was a pretty E-85 label on the trunk, and actually bought that $6 crap...could not change her mind. I am getting very angry with the 15% that is destroying the fuel system in my classic '69 Chevy truck. The ethanol is actually melting the floats in my fuel tank and destroying the seals and gaskets in the carburetor. Not to mention...the ethanol fuel only lasts a couple of months before it turns to some other chemical junk that ruins the rest of the fuel system.

[markb422]

Originally Posted by alsdas88

A couple of years ago when I was stationed in San Diego, reg fuel was around $4 a gallon...E85 was priced just over $6. Felt bad for a co-worker who insisted her car could ONLY run on E85 because there was a pretty E-85 label on the trunk, and actually bought that $6 crap...could not change her mind. I am getting very angry with the 15% that is destroying the fuel system in my classic '69 Chevy truck. The ethanol is actually melting the floats in my fuel tank and destroying the seals and gaskets in the carburetor. Not to mention...the ethanol fuel only lasts a couple of months before it turns to some other chemical junk that ruins the rest of the fuel system.

ditto that!
E-85 = less mpg because it has less power. Also who wants to spend more time at the gas station.
E free is available in parts of Michigan but is usually called rec fuel. Meant for snowmachines and outboards. Cost sometimes 50 or 60 cents more than regular but it usually 90 or 91 octane. Machines run very good on it and you do not have to worry about leaving it in the tank for more than a month without destroying the carb.

[NJKris]

Felt bad for a co-worker who insisted her car could ONLY run on E85 because there was a pretty E-85 label on the trunk

That's like people who think they are doing a good thing for their engine running 'premium' fuel even if their car doesn't need it. But it's premium! It's the best! lol.

[A32Deuce]

E 85 wouldn't be bad if the engine was built just to run on it. But 15 plus compression ratio doesn't work with gas. It was a compromise feel good fuel because it burns cooler and cleaner then gas even though it takes almost twice as much to go the same distance. If engines were built just for it, economy might be a little better then now. You can make power but it takes more then gas could handle.

[ADVtraveller]

Originally Posted by cmysstailights

Has to be .75 or higher difference to make up cost per gallon. In my area its anywhere from .90 to 1.10 lower

Exactly. Now that's a pretty significant price difference. Save me $30 on a fill up at a dollar a gallon savings. I'll have to look for it locally and see what the local prices are at. Regular is running about $3.80 a gallon here locally. If it's $2.80 a gallon for E85..... hmmm.. that's about 25% savings to buy it. If my mpg drop is less than 25%, it might be worth it.
The issue then, is range.

[ADVtraveller]

Originally Posted by oldjim

I refuse to use E85 period. It's bad for chain saws, lawnmowers, generators, and my Yamaha Road Star. With the EPA trying to shove this crap down our throats and raise the corn level even higher, in my opinion, it's a losing proposition.

That's where I should be. Have motorcycles and have a chainsaw, weed whacker, etc, and ethanol is the devil.
OP here... I was just trying to see what people's experience is with E85 for tow vehicles to possibly save some money.
I think i've got the answer to my question.

[Boomerweps]

Www.fueleconomy.gov
Great report on gasoline and various ethanol mixes.

Bottom line. The poorer gas mileage, averaging 15% poorer, over offsets any monetary savings significantly, at least any prices I have seen. I live in PA but have driven out to UT in the family vehicle twice. The savings per gallon in PA buying E85 is 15-25 cents. I need to see a 47.3 cent difference from regular to break even on the MPG loss. My regular is $3.159 per gallon.

[JohnD10]

Originally Posted by ADVtraveller

Looks like it's more expensive to use, considering price per gal vs mpg.
Power difference is insignificant.
Looks like it's only good for cleaning out the fuel system and it burns cleaner.

At high altitude...power difference is very significant (much less).

And, it is good for the farmers...

[cmysstailights]

Originally Posted by ADVtraveller

Exactly. Now that's a pretty significant price difference. Save me $30 on a fill up at a dollar a gallon savings. I'll have to look for it locally and see what the local prices are at. Regular is running about $3.80 a gallon here locally. If it's $2.80 a gallon for E85..... hmmm.. that's about 25% savings to buy it. If my mpg drop is less than 25%, it might be worth it.
The issue then, is range.

In ny, 87 2.80 2.85. E85 1.89

[ADVtraveller]

Originally Posted by JohnD10

At high altitude...power difference is very significant (much less).

And, it is good for the farmers...

I love helping out the farmers. But something is amiss...

Processing corn into fuel in the Midwest, costs almost as much as buying oil and shipping and refining it from the Mideast?

[NJKris]

It's called feel-good government meddling..er...legislation.

[A32Deuce]

X2!

[decoy562]

I have a 2011 F-150 with the 5.0, and my camper is 6,700 - 7,000 lbs, depending on the amount of food/clothing we bring.

Anyways, I get 8-9 mpg with E85, and maybe 9-10 mpg on non-ethanol fuels. Not a big difference. Tows better with E85. I have a tuner and an Oz tune. In Tennessee for our most recent trip, E85 was a dollar cheaper than running 93 octane.

[NJKris]

decoy, if you are only losing one mile per gallon, and it is a buck cheaper per gallon, AND it tows better, that it is a no-brainer. My new 2015 Ford F150 is flex fuel capable. I am curious what the tuner does and what at Oz tune is. unfamiliar.

[Hersbird]

It does make more power if the motor is built to take advantage of it. In 2011 in the annual Michigan State police vehicle testing, they ran separate tests for E85 where the cars/trucks were designed for it. The fastest and quickest times were with the E85 in the tank, I think overall the 6.0 Chevy Caprice running E85 (that is really just a rebadged Holden Commodore) was the fastest but the E85 only added 1 mph to the tops speed and took a tenth off the 1/4 mile times. That means probably 10 horsepower more with the E85. They don't actually do MPG testing, but the EPA does, and they say a 5.3 Tahoe goes from 17 combined to 13 combined on E85.

But then in 2012 the testing showed the cars showed no improvement (in power) with E85, then in 2013 they stopped testing the difference. The MPG penalty is always there.

Drag racers will build dedicated E85 motors that only run E85 and make quite a bit more power, but they can never run anything but E85 and they have zero interest in MPG.

We don't have E85 here so I can't even try it, I personally wouldn't use it towing across the country as you might find it one place and then not another, and you will be constantly relying on the computer to make rapid changes and also end up with strange mixes of different blends of E85 and regular.

If I was somewhere where the E85 was massively subsidized I might run it full time in my local minivan cruiser that can run it, but that would be more of taking advantage of the subsidy then using it because it's better. I think that was more common to see comparably good deals on the E85 when unleaded was $4 or even $5 per gallon, then suddenly $3/gal subsidised E85 was worth buying.

I fundamentally disagree with any government intervention into the free market, and ethanol is one of the worst examples you can find, but that doesn't mean I won't take every loophole or exploit every subsidy they put out there. I once had a propane conversion on a motorhome and could get really inexpensive power for my old 454 Chevy compared to unleaded. No road taxes and a market glut of propane made even cutting the mpg in 1/2 worth it when the price per gallon went from $3 to $1 per gallon.

[TitanMike]

The Ethanol will allow more spark advance without pre ignition but since you haven't increased the compression ratio you still end up with a loss. ECM will feed more fuel, spark advance will allow for almost the same power (feel) but in the end the only benefit is to the corn farmers and it makes the "flower sniffers" happy.

[chapelt]

I had a truck that used E-85. It's crap. I used it once, and never again.

[oldjim]

I bought a 2018 F250 last June. it's flex fuel capable. However, my instruction manual says use one or the other, don't go back and forth. I'm sticking with 87 octane with 10% ethanol. Obviously I also want to help our farmers. This not the way to do it. The Range Cubes I feed my cows has gone up in price from $1.50 a 50# bag to $9.99 over the last few years. Why? We're turning people and cattle food into lousy gasoline.