Silverado 1500 towing - Page 2

fajitas21 · 09-21-2011, 06:41 PM

Here's a few observation based on months of research before both my vehicle purchase and my travel trailer purchase.

Rig:
2011 Chevy Silverado + Salem 22RB-XL

1. People say 3.42 gears are garbage for towing. There are so many other components to it than just gear ratio. The 6 speed transmission is a completely different animal than the old 4's as well, so those who say the 5.3L w/ 4L80 sucks might have a different experience than the 6L80E with the 5.3L

2. Ford vs Chevy vs Dodge = People who are brand loyal are always going to detract from the benefits of the others, and talk up the points of theirs. We spend $30 - $60k on these trucks, we are going to be biased to the decision we made. Hell, we HOPE we made the right choice...

3. EcoBoost = Brilliant marketing move on Ford. Tow with it, there's nothing "eco" about it. That's the "boost" part you're enjoying, gas mileage will be the same as with a V8, but the turbos will provide additional torque @ lower RPMs. Guess what, Diesels have been doing this since the 70's...bout time us gas people get it!

4. The 6 speed transmissions typically run about 1600 - 1800 RPM in 6th, but you normally tow in 4th or 5th, which can be as good as ~ 2000 RPM @ 65MPH (my max towing speed). Look at torque curves and you'll see most are putting out around 300 - 400 ft lbs of torque at that RPM (I know my 5.3L is putting right around 300, the EcoBoost around 370 at that RPM). Does the Ford then pull better than the Chevy for this particular lineup? Yep.

But I don't care, my MPG is about the same, and coming from the Tacoma I had before, this 5.3L is a beast. The Ecoboost, Ford 5.0L, Tundra 5.7L, Dodge 5.7L will all beat out my truck, but then again I'm really getting 21 - 22 unloaded on the highway @ 68 - 72MPH. I'm not really sure if the other trucks are getting that, but then again, it really doesn't matter, this is the one I have so I am glad it's getting it.

This post isn't meant to be incendiary, or really show brand loyalty. I REALLY like the EcoBoosts, and if my friend didn't sell Chevy's, and my dad didn't manage that dealership, I might be driving one now.

However, Ford makes a great product, but I managed to score my Silverado (similarly equipped) for a LARGE discount due to GM $4505 + my friend owns the place).

It is what it is, but I'm pleased with my purchase, and I just wanted to clarify the people who trash the 3.42 6 Speed, comparing it to the 3.42 4 Speed.

Same with all the other big trucks, the 6 speed transmissions are a more significant upgrade than a larger engine at this point. All of these engines crank out plenty of power, but if that power is not utilized properly, it can't perform the duties I require.

EinDog · 09-24-2011, 09:49 AM

I traded my 2007 for a 2011 Silverado. As the previous poster said, the towing performance is very different. The transmission seems like it has two gears beneath what the 4 spd had.

transamz9 · 09-25-2011, 09:43 PM

I know you guys don't want to here this but you should really look into the pre-egr diesels. I have an 05 and with all the toys hooked up I gross around 24,000# and get 10-11 MPG average. I get 16-18 with just the 4000# boat and 19/23 empty. You can buy them with good miles for around $25,000 and get 300'000+ miles out of them. You talk about pulling 8,000# up 7% grades and holding speed? I pulled my old TT (32'6" Jay Flight) for 3 years without the first WD or sway control and was getting 14 MPG. The greatest thing I liked was there was no downshifting. It makes for a way more pleasureable right and I was not nere as on edge as I was towing with my Chevy 6.0 4:10 that could never deside what gear it wanted. All I can say is find one and try it.

fajitas21 · 09-26-2011, 10:49 AM

I don't think anyone is going to argue the awesomeness of diesels here.

I think the trade off comes when you want a newer truck (post EGR), lots of tech, it's my daily driver and diesels are more expensive to buy, maintain, and currently, fuel.

I love diesels and would love to be driving around in a 2500HD right now, as I'm sure the MPG would be very close even after EGR regs to my 5.3L gas.

But considering I paid $30k for a brand new, leather, loaded tech, 100,000 mile warranty, daily driver - and lets not forget, the experience of being the first owner...which is what we pay a steep premium for many times, but everyone loves that feeling...

I'm just saying I can buy alot of Diesel for the $30 to $50k difference, and I'm just not wanting a used truck right now. For those reasons, I pay a premium for the gas @ $30k, but then again, it's just $30K.

I don't have much trouble in 5th on my 6 speed 5.3L pulling my TT, but it's light. I 100% agree Diesels are a superior torque generator, I just don't need it but maybe 5% of the time, and the other 95% is my on the highway doing 70MPH with nothing but people cargo.

PatrickCrotty · 09-29-2011, 05:26 PM

I'm pulling a 8285WS with a 2011 Silverado, 5.3, 3.42, 6 speed, fully equipped for towing. My Gross Weight is 13,800lbs and I am at my max Vehicle Gross Weight of 6800 for the truck. For the Silverado, GVW for the two together is 15000lbs. I have added air bags and Bilstien HD shocks.

Given a gas motor has its best pulling power at 3000rpm or so, it shifts a lot in the tow haul mode, that is how it was designed to work. I just returned from a trip from Alabama to Maine and back to Alabama the long way which was a 5000 mile trip. I had no problems. And, I pulled many grades that where 8% or better with no problem. More importantly, I went down the other side with no problem also. If you can accept the fact that a gas motor and transmission will shift more that the diesel, your fine. I run 65mph normally and many times easily crept up to 70 until the Silverado governor, you know the one that sits in the passenger seat, said she didn't like 70mph. She tells me that in the car. I generally hang with the trucks.

You do have to pay attention to the way you load your 5th wheel. In my case I'm carefull about my pin weight since I am close to my truck GVW.

Look closely at the trailer/5th wheel size and ensure you don't go above the GVW of the two together and the GVW of your truck.

The Silverado, 5.3, with the 6 speed has come a long way for towing ability. If you got the money to spend on a diesel, by all means do so. I didn't and I'm glad for it.

MacDaddy · 09-30-2011, 08:36 AM

Patrick,
Are you monitoring the Transmission temp? If not, I would suggest you do!! I was suprised when I put a Scan Gauge on my '03, 1500, 5.3, 3:73, gears, 5 speed, pulling a 27RBEC. Monitoring the transmission I discovered that the transmission was running hotter than I liked. Allowing the transmission to shift alot in the D postition with the tow haul mode on I noticed the transmission temp went up to 200 or so. If I controlled it manually (tow haul mode on) the transmission did not heat up as much. The shifting back and forth causes more heat. Having switched to the 2500HD with the 6.0 gasser, 3:73 gears and 6 speed is a world of difference.

FYI

prof_fate · 09-30-2011, 08:57 AM

Everything I've read or heard (and most of what I've seen first hand) leans toward ford - cheaper to own/use and I'm sure reliability is in there somewhere.

My wife made me, so to speak, get an SUV. I've towed a lot of class 1 stuff in the past usually with lighter vehicles (small pickups, jeep wranglers, motorcycles towing small trailers, minivans, etc) and this is my first experience at pulling something big - 30' long, ~6300 lbs loaded, reese dual cam for sway/wd.

I live in western pa and we have hills- lots of them. My first trip was on the turnpike, holiday weekend, friday night, rain and construction...and with a truck I'd not pulled anything with I got used with 235,000 miles on it.

Piece of cake. No, really. No sway at all - be that from passing trucks or uneven pavement in construction zones. None at all. I got to 75 on one down hill stretch, passed slower vehicles even up hill on the turnpike (running 65-70mph). I was never short on power. And I"m sure with 235k on the motor it's got to be down on power from new. Mileage was around 9.5-10.

Are there better TVs out there? I"m sure there are. More wb, lower gearing, more power would all be beneficial for sure, but I dont' feel underpowered or overloaded (brake wise) at all. No shaking going on (in the rig or my nerves).

As for chevy vs ford...I know a number of chevy owners and they seem to have more powertrain issues than ford owners and get better gas mileage. I don't know many that tow a lot so don't have a lot to offer in comparison. My neighbor pulls a 28' TT with an early-mid 90s F350 diesel 'king' cab 4x4 without issues and he said a WD hitch made his rig squirrely (no clue on what or how he set it up) and another friend has a heavily modified dodge dually that he'll pull 20k with ...but that's abnormal and he admits it.

Snowman53 · 09-30-2011, 11:38 AM

Thanks to all for your insights. Just picked up a new Surveyor SP240 (4k lbs. empty) yesterday with a Reese Dual Cam. Towing with an '01 Suburban 1500 5.3 with Power Flow muffler dual exhaust, K&N Cold Kit, and Jet Chip. Truck has a few miles at 170k but all it is sharp, tight, and solid. My first 25 miles of towing revealed a very easy pull with the trailer empty. Winds gusting over 40 mph. Big trip to IL, PA, OH coming up this fall. It will be a good test. Might want to upgrade to a 2500 with a 6.0 at some point. Or not, as mileage solo is good at 15 - 18, and get a couple more years out of the old gal. Thanks again.

prof_fate · 09-30-2011, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snowman53

Truck has a few miles at 170k but all it is sharp, tight, and solid. My first 25 miles of towing revealed a very easy pull with the trailer empty. Winds gusting over 40 mph. Big trip to IL, PA, OH coming up this fall. It will be a good test. Might want to upgrade to a 2500 with a 6.0 at some point. Or not, as mileage solo is good at 15 - 18, and get a couple more years out of the old gal. Thanks again.

See, typical of mileage on a chevy...similar vehicle to mine, 5.3 vs 5.4..I get 12 to 13 solo and might get 16 on a trip...no clue why fords are less efficient, fuel wise.

MacDaddy · 09-30-2011, 12:12 PM

When I had my '03 1500 5.3 with 3:73 gears I got around 14 to 15 around town. Pulling my 27RBEC I got 11 to 13, depending on the wind.

Purchased the same truck except 2500HD '09, 6.0, 3:73 gears, 6 speed pulling the same trailer I get 7 to 9 MPG.

However, the 2500 is much nicer to pull with because of the heavier suspension and 6 speed. My transmission temps are lower and the truck doesn't struggle near as hard. Actually it doesn't struggle at all. After pulling the trailer for 8 hours with the 2500 I'm not near as tired. Wish I could get better mpg out of it though. That is my biggest complaint.

fajitas21 · 09-30-2011, 01:30 PM

Quote:

As for chevy vs ford...I know a number of chevy owners and they seem to have more powertrain issues than ford owners and get better gas mileage.

Honestly I would be more worried about drivetrain issues with the Ford. However, at the same time, that's what warranty is for, so don't sweat it.

Had a friend complain that @ 35,000 miles his F150 tranny blew up, he didn't even have a hitch on it, never once towed, barely hauled. He said he would never buy a Ford again, but I told him that was not really fair to Ford. Vehicles have problems, even gently used ones, so buy the warranty and don't sweat it.

I know of several issues Chevy's have but bought one anyways (electrical problems come to mind). Then again, the people who experience the problems will tell everyone about them, but are likely a minority. The people who never have problems only say they never do when directly asked.

Would the well known tranmission problems of Ford keep me from buying one in the future? Not really, it's always a gamble with a new truck, and it's always a tradeoff of some sorts.

Also, I do get really solid MPGs with my Silverado (mostly 20.5MPG on trips longer than 30 minute hwy, 15 - 17 city), but I drove my Father-in-laws 2006 F150 3.73 w/ 5.4L engine CC LB to Dallas a few months ago (5+ hours). He said he loved his truck but never got better than 17 on the highway. I got 18.9 on my trip with his truck.

Most people complain about MPG, but most trucks are capable of within a few MPGs the same, the only difference is driving habits.

prof_fate · 09-30-2011, 01:49 PM

Every brand has it's issues now and again. With the fords it may depend on what trannie - there is the 4R70 and a 4R100 - the 100 is the one you want for towing and it depends on what year F150 you have what came in it and then it may depends on options or a mix of other variables.

I've had transmissions last a long time and some that didn't...some that failed and left me walking and others that gave plenty of warning, stick and auto...can't say I can pinpoint any one brand or variable as to being at fault.

and ford's not perfect either - the list of 'common' issues with my expy/F150 is a long one and the previous owner experience most all of them. My experience with GM isn't much better nor with Chrysler. I worked at several foreign brand dealerships, indie repair shops and trust me, each brand has it's issues. You just have to figure out which issues you can live with and which you can't.

My issues are hassle - I don't want 10 little problems that keep me going back for repairs over and over again. A warranty may make the repairs free but my time has value too. My wife wants reliability - things can be broken or fall off the car, just don't leave her stranded on the side of the road -ever.

fajitas21 · 09-30-2011, 02:46 PM

Well said. It is always a compromise. If there was a perfect truck out there there wouldn't be such discussions as these.

PatrickCrotty · 09-30-2011, 04:47 PM

MacDaddy,

Sorry, could not get back to you. Was driving from Cave City, Ky to Montgomery, Alabama. Yes I do monitor the transmission temp and the temp has never gone over 196 degrees. And, that was on flat ground in city traffic. Pulling grades I have not seen over 185 degrees and that was in 95 degree weather. The new Silverados are a whole new animal. I might add the transmission cooler that is on my truck does have a fan. I installed it when I first bought it. I saw so much about transmission temps that I figured it couldn't hurt. You may also note that I said my 2011 Silverado is fulling equipped for towing. If it is not fulling equipped for towing it is not capable of towing the load I am pulling.

Like I said, make sure you are within the vehicle GVW's and you will be fine. One other thing I should have said for those who don't do the the research, make sure you do not go beyond the axel weight limits. The best thing to do is put your stuff on the scale!!!

As for the Ford vs Chev thing, I think both are great. I have friends who have Fords and they are happy with them. I bought a Chev because the price was right. Don't know what to say more about that.

fajitas21 · 09-30-2011, 04:55 PM

Also, to add with my 2011 Silverado w/ HD Tow (Factory, haven't added any fans).

Trans temps 165 - 175 towing 4000# TT. Hills, not mountains. Holds 5th @ 2000 RPMs @ 65MPH, downshifts on hills, temps never above 175F. Very impressed, but even 200F wouldn't bother me a bit.

popik · 09-30-2011, 06:50 PM

200F is about the perfect temp for a working trans. There is no cause for worry unitll your pushing over 220F. Im sure there was a sticky somewhere on this forum that referenced this

bill and theresa · 10-02-2011, 11:57 AM

Well I finally had to let the silverado go. It had 233000. miles and had been a good one. I traded for a 2007 GMC sierra with 14000. miles and a 5.3 with a 3.73. 4 X 4 and loaded. will tow more than the 2 wheel drive chev. Love this truck. can't wait to hook up and head out.

fajitas21 · 10-02-2011, 03:07 PM

Here goes a long post with a lot of math, but this is what I'd figured out regarding my truck and what it's capable of. I hope this helps the OP or other people towing with a truck like mine to figure out what's safe and legal.

Truck Details:
Chevy Silverado 1500 5.3L w/ 3.42 6 speed + Z85 + HD Trailer Package - Crew Cab

Curb Weight: 5100
GVWR: 6800
GCWR: 15000
Max Trailer: 9600
Max Tongue: 1100 (WD Hitch - 750 without)
RGAWR: 3950
RGAW: 2500

-----

Trailer Details:

Trailer Dry: 3600#

Trailer Wet: 4100#

Trailer GVWR: 5400#

Additional Weight that could be added = 5400# - 4100# = 1300#
Excess not used: 1300# (from above line)

-----

Tongue Details:

Hitch Weight Dry: 310

Propane Tanks: 40
Deep cycle battery: 20
Tongue Jack: 10

Actual Tongue Wet: 310 + 40 + 20 + 10 = 380#

Weight of WD Hitch: 60#

Dry Weight of WD Hitch + Wet Tongue = 440#

** Now Add 10% of weight added to TT will add to the tongue too**

Loaded weight of the TT Normally = 4100#

3600 dry - 4100 Wet = 500# additional @ 10% = 50# more to tongue

Total Loaded tongue weight: 490#

Max Possible using 5400# weight of Trailer: 1300# additional weigth @ 10% = 130# + 490# = 620#

-----

Truck payload information:

Adjusted Payload (per door sticker): 1400#

Me: 200
Wife: 120
Dog: 15
Loaded Tongue: 490
Box Cargo: 200
Full Tank of gas: 162# @ 26 gallons (Will divide in half since payloads generally assume 1/2 tank of gas) = 80#

Total Payload: 200 + 150 + 15 + 490 + 200 + 80 = 1135#

Margin: 1365# - 1135# = 230# (This would allow for additional people in truck, and possible moving some cargo from bed to the trailer)

<<---- Cheat Sheet ---->>

Normal Operating Weights:

Payload Margin: 230#
Tongue: 490#
Trailer Loaded: 4100#

Max Operating for a heavier Trailer assuming I remove the 200# of additional payload:
Tongue: 920# with WD hitch
Trailer: 7333# loaded

In this scenario this trailer, with a Wet Weight of 4100# actually comes close to maxing the payload on my truck long before it maxes the trailer towing capabilities. Also, a trailer which weighs in at HALF of what I am capable of towing with the truck just about maxes it out. However, since this is all well within my safety margins and I'm using a dual cam WD Hitch, I can say that this Silverado tows the holy mess out of othis trailer and doesn't even break a sweat.

My max trailer, which would really involve some sacrifices in payload, would be 920# Tongue w/ WD hitch and 7333# loaded.

Anything bigger, or even towing that much constantly, would require a larger truck.

The real kicker is the payload.

prof_fate · 10-02-2011, 03:30 PM

I'm always amazed at how these big towing numbers vanish into thin air when you figure in all the other real world numbers such as payload, tounge weight, etc.

My 'small suv towable' trailer maxes out my full size SUV and I"m nowhere near "full" in what could fit in the trailer or truck.

Makes you wonder how many are out on the roads well over their rated loads...either from believing what they read or were told by the salesman (truck or tt).

fajitas21 · 10-02-2011, 04:18 PM

Yep I agree, I posted this hoping that someone who's trying to figure out what's safe for their family will at least understand there's more factors than the "Max Trailer towing" capability.

My father-in-law's TT is on the upper end of this spectrum and he's towing with an F150. It tows well but I bet he's over his payload. It's just crazy to me that I upgraded from a Tacoma to a Silverado and if I chose to go much bigger, I'll need a 2500 HD to do it.

However, I really don't plan on going much larger, and if I need more sleeping space, I'm going to go for a 24' - 25' expandable (or hybrid) TT with pop outs.

I just wanted to share these numbers since it really in informative to see how quickly they all dwindle down your safe loads.

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