Silverado 3500 And GM

[510Rick]

Originally Posted by 325BH

I think Tommy Boy summed-up "guarantees" best. [emoji846]

you got that right HAHAHAHAHA

[Lins]

Originally Posted by 510Rick

ok your def right maybe not a glow plug issue since they did away with them a while back . BUT that dodge body will rot off the frame before that bad ass Cummins goes belly up . Like I said they all have issues . I REALLY want a new Dodge CTD so dont take me as a Dodge hater I just cant justify the cost at this time of my life . I work for a government agency that takes care of all types of the big 3 over 20k vehicles so I got an idea of what fails on what . I will tell you this I WILL NEVER OWN A FORD diesel . Go to a ford dealer and you will see a line of trucks with the cabs off having all types of major components replaced .

I agree and I was just having fun. I've owned all of the big three, wife has a VW and I've had a few toys. Anything mechanical will need work at some point. Take care of it such as replacing the glow plugs when neededand keep using it. If you want a reason for a new vehicle then sure blame the glow plugs.

[510Rick]

Originally Posted by Lins

I agree and I was just having fun. I've owned all of the big three, wife has a VW and I've had a few toys. Anything mechanical will need work at some point. Take care of it such as replacing the glow plugs when neededand keep using it. If you want a reason for a new vehicle then sure blame the glow plugs.

Gotta love them Dang Toyotas though ..My 85 4X4 is unstoppable. Even Towed my Malibu Skier around with it back when I first bought my house . lol

[Jim34RL]

Originally Posted by tkmi

Just getting my 2017 3500 dually. 6.7 HD with 385 HP

And 900 lb. ft. Pulls 31000 lb.

My 2008 Ram /Cummings has that much HP/ Torque already.

[spock123]

Well the dealer found two glow plugs that was bad. I would have gladly paid him out of pocket to change the other one, that makes six bad glow plugs. I used my code reader to clear the code but check engine light came back on. The service supervisor where I bought the truck from told me it was a waste of money to charge all the glow plugs. My Silverado has been in the shop for right many things. Two nox sensors, the def sensor quit in the def tank, all but this last problem covered under warranty. The only thing I can do is change the oil. I want to buy me a dually, crew cab.

[spock123]

I'm on a long trip to Alaska and I have been running a little fast, I need to slow truck down. Only getting 10.4 miles to the gallon.

[dustman_stx]

Originally Posted by 325BH

Hypothetical-

If you pay $9000 premium for the diesel, and gas and diesel are $2.50 per gallon, the gasser guy will be able to buy 3,600 gallons of gas with the $9,000 he didn't spend.

If the diesel gets 12 mpg and the gasser gets 7 mpg (while towing), the gasser will have purchased 3,571 more gallons of fuel at the 60,000 miles mark.

So... it only takes $60,000 miles for the $9,000 to be moot. (I suspect the "non towing " scenario-- or an equal mixture-- would net similar numbers.)

Now it is down to actual maintenance costs.

The above is only discussing the raw $$. Towing experience is a big factor, as is $$ for major repairs (if any).

Not coming to any conclusions here, just adding a little math to the discussion.

Your numbers only work if you are towing 100% of the time and there is NO price difference in diesel and gasoline. While not always, diesel is very often 20-40 cents per gallon higher than gasoline. Basically what you've given is absolute best case scenario for the diesel and worst case for a gas. Another funny thing about your numbers is that the 60K mark is where the powertrain warranty typically runs out and then it's up to the owner to foot the high dollar diesel repair bills. This is coming from the owner of a 2015 F250 6.7PSD, btw. I've already had ~$3600 worth of emissions junk replaced on mine under warranty, so I'm not under any illusions that the newer diesels can be justified with monetary arguments.

[325BH]

Originally Posted by dustman_stx

Your numbers only work if you are towing 100% of the time and there is NO price difference in diesel and gasoline. While not always, diesel is very often 20-40 cents per gallon higher than gasoline. Basically what you've given is absolute best case scenario for the diesel and worst case for a gas. Another funny thing about your numbers is that the 60K mark is where the powertrain warranty typically runs out and then it's up to the owner to foot the high dollar diesel repair bills. This is coming from the owner of a 2015 F250 6.7PSD, btw. I've already had ~$3600 worth of emissions junk replaced on mine under warranty, so I'm not under any illusions that the newer diesels can be justified with monetary arguments.

The numbers work in non-towing too because both engines get better mileage without a heavy load. My hypothetical isn't exact of course. Just tried to apply some numbers to the general statement.

The price of fuel is a factor and I agree with what you are saying.

Good point about the warranty.

Completely agree with the "monetary argument " statement. Although I was trying to apply some math to the "payback " comments in prior postings, I agree with everyone that says it is about the experience and not any kind of money savings.

[dustman_stx]

Originally Posted by 325BH

The numbers work in non-towing too because both engines get better mileage without a heavy load. My hypothetical isn't exact of course. Just tried to apply some numbers to the general statement.

The price of fuel is a factor and I agree with what you are saying.

Good point about the warranty.

Completely agree with the "monetary argument " statement. Although I was trying to apply some math to the "payback " comments in prior postings, I agree with everyone that says it is about the experience and not any kind of money savings.

Not so much in non towing. My 15 6.7PSD gets ~19 hwy unloaded whereas typical gas versions will get 15. That's a 21% loss of mileage going with a gas. Your towing numbers represent a 42% loss. The more short trips you take in a diesel where you aren't at full operating temp will be even closer in efficiency to a gas engine.

[325BH]

Originally Posted by dustman_stx

Not so much in non towing. My 15 6.7PSD gets ~19 hwy unloaded whereas typical gas versions will get 15. That's a 21% loss of mileage going with a gas. Your towing numbers represent a 42% loss. The more short trips you take in a diesel where you aren't at full operating temp will be even closer in efficiency to a gas engine.

I have the 6.2 gasser and have never seen above 13... and that was taking it easy on the highway.

I suspect the diesel is more forgiving to varying driving habits. In my gasser, 11 is the norm (non-towing) around town.

[dustman_stx]

Originally Posted by 325BH

I have the 6.2 gasser and have never seen above 13... and that was taking it easy on the highway.

I suspect the diesel is more forgiving to varying driving habits. In my gasser, 11 is the norm (non-towing) around town.

Driving habits have a lot to do with real world mileage like you state. For the 30K miles I had my 13 F150 Ecoboost, I had within 1 mpg the exact same overall mileage as I've got with my 15 6.7 PSD in just under 25K. This is with ~20% towing mileage and a significant amount of short trips. I was actually thinking of the 6.4 Hemi mileage reports when I posted that 15 number- many reports of it getting that cruising the highway. If the 6.2 is only capable of 13 hwy, it seems that Ford may need to rethink something there- I am waiting for an updated power plant there and have my fingers crossed for a small twin turbo V8. The 6.0 Chevy is notorious for averaging ~11-12 highway/city unloaded as well. With all of this being said, my 6.7PSD will only average around 14-15 combined for me much of the time because of the short trips I do. The highway mileage I reported was on a 1K mile road trip where the vast majority of the time I had the cruise set and was rolling along at full operating temp. I still contend that a 42% loss of efficiency is definitely on the high side and wouldn't pan out in most users real world use of a gas versus diesel. You are absolutely correct about the variables- makes it hard to say for sure what any one person might experience.

[325BH]

Originally Posted by dustman_stx

Driving habits have a lot to do with real world mileage like you state. For the 30K miles I had my 13 F150 Ecoboost, I had within 1 mpg the exact same overall mileage as I've got with my 15 6.7 PSD in just under 25K. This is with ~20% towing mileage and a significant amount of short trips. I was actually thinking of the 6.4 Hemi mileage reports when I posted that 15 number- many reports of it getting that cruising the highway. If the 6.2 is only capable of 13 hwy, it seems that Ford may need to rethink something there- I am waiting for an updated power plant there and have my fingers crossed for a small twin turbo V8. The 6.0 Chevy is notorious for averaging ~11-12 highway/city unloaded as well. With all of this being said, my 6.7PSD will only average around 14-15 combined for me much of the time because of the short trips I do. The highway mileage I reported was on a 1K mile road trip where the vast majority of the time I had the cruise set and was rolling along at full operating temp. I still contend that a 42% loss of efficiency is definitely on the high side and wouldn't pan out in most users real world use of a gas versus diesel. You are absolutely correct about the variables- makes it hard to say for sure what any one person might experience.

I would have loved a diesel but just couldn't justify it with my use.

I always wondered what I would have done if the Super Duty trucks had a V8 Ecoboost offering... but in the end I'm glad they didn't. It made the decision easier.

I'm sure Ford toys with the idea of a bigger Ecoboost for the Super Dutys, however I wonder if it would make sense. Surely the mileage would be worse than the 6.2... and would cost more. If the Ecoboost would cost 1/2 as much as a diesel, would anyone buy them? Lots to ponder.

My truck is a 2016, so I have a few years left on her! I'm sure my next one will be a diesel. I have always loved Ford trucks, but my next purchase will probably include a complete review of all offerings by the big three... and try to decide without bias.

[ronheater70]

Originally Posted by dustman_stx

Driving habits have a lot to do with real world mileage like you state. For the 30K miles I had my 13 F150 Ecoboost, I had within 1 mpg the exact same overall mileage as I've got with my 15 6.7 PSD in just under 25K. This is with ~20% towing mileage and a significant amount of short trips. I was actually thinking of the 6.4 Hemi mileage reports when I posted that 15 number- many reports of it getting that cruising the highway. If the 6.2 is only capable of 13 hwy, it seems that Ford may need to rethink something there- I am waiting for an updated power plant there and have my fingers crossed for a small twin turbo V8. The 6.0 Chevy is notorious for averaging ~11-12 highway/city unloaded as well. With all of this being said, my 6.7PSD will only average around 14-15 combined for me much of the time because of the short trips I do. The highway mileage I reported was on a 1K mile road trip where the vast majority of the time I had the cruise set and was rolling along at full operating temp. I still contend that a 42% loss of efficiency is definitely on the high side and wouldn't pan out in most users real world use of a gas versus diesel. You are absolutely correct about the variables- makes it hard to say for sure what any one person might experience.

Wife took girls trip this past weekend, took truck, had herself, 3 daughters and mother in law with her, plus all the gear which 5 chicks would take (need a bigger truck!) and Beach gear.. Running AC, she hit 19.1 MPG in places, settled a little shy of 18 after hitting slow traffic and going through town into the hills.
6.4 CC 4x4 LB

There is definite benefits to having a diesel, If you NEED a diesel..However we do a lot of short 10 minute trips into town etc, and tow less than 8K pounds.
My son just spent over 2K on his Super Duty to do a full delete after having so many emissions issues..

[325BH]

Originally Posted by ronheater70

Wife took girls trip this past weekend, took truck, had herself, 3 daughters and mother in law with her, plus all the gear which 5 chicks would take (need a bigger truck!) and Beach gear.. Running AC, she hit 19.1 MPG in places, settled a little shy of 18 after hitting slow traffic and going through town into the hills.
6.4 CC 4x4 LB

There is definite benefits to having a diesel, If you NEED a diesel..However we do a lot of short 10 minute trips into town etc, and tow less than 8K pounds.
My son just spent over 2K on his Super Duty to do a full delete after having so many emissions issues..

I always wondered how accurate the mileage meters are in these trucks. I have a hard time believing a 3/4 ton tuck with a V8 gasser is getting 19 MPG. If you are that is awesome, but something doesn't sound right. I will admit I know nothing about the Dodge 6.4, other than my friend has one in his 2015 2500. He always acts like his mileage is inline with mine.

[ronheater70]

Originally Posted by 325BH

I always wondered how accurate the mileage meters are in these trucks. I have a hard time believing a 3/4 ton tuck with a V8 gasser is getting 19 MPG. If you are that is awesome, but something doesn't sound right. I will admit I know nothing about the Dodge 6.4, other than my friend has one in his 2015 2500. He always acts like his mileage is inline with mine.

Yup, its the factory EVIC display..which according to the ram forum I am on, can be on average 1 mpg optimistic or nearly spot on.. I don't put a ton of faith in it. Long thread over there though of others getting over 18 with it.. Lots getting 10-12 as well. I think it just the right combination of roads, speeds, etc.
First couple of tanks from new, it was averaging 10-11 of town driving and a little back roads, now at 2500 miles its averaging 13-13.5 in the same scenarios..BUT I think anything in the 17 MPG range in a truck this large is exceptional..

[dustman_stx]

Originally Posted by 325BH

I would have loved a diesel but just couldn't justify it with my use.

I always wondered what I would have done if the Super Duty trucks had a V8 Ecoboost offering... but in the end I'm glad they didn't. It made the decision easier.

I'm sure Ford toys with the idea of a bigger Ecoboost for the Super Dutys, however I wonder if it would make sense. Surely the mileage would be worse than the 6.2... and would cost more. If the Ecoboost would cost 1/2 as much as a diesel, would anyone buy them? Lots to ponder.

My truck is a 2016, so I have a few years left on her! I'm sure my next one will be a diesel. I have always loved Ford trucks, but my next purchase will probably include a complete review of all offerings by the big three... and try to decide without bias.

If I could get a 500HP/600TQ twin turbo V8 that would get 14 combined unloaded (real world) for a $3K or less premium over the base 6.2 V8 I'd ditch the diesel in a heartbeat. I don't see why they couldn't easily achieve this with some basic tuning??? Have an economy mode that cuts boost and ramps the boost less slowly for everyday driving and you can maximize economy. Have a tow haul mode that ramps boost quickly and increases torque output. Maybe a sport mode that drivers could select if they want to keep the power output elevated but have a different shift pattern than the tow/haul mode would have??? This would be a great truck for people that need the payload capacity of an HD truck, but don't need the ability to haul every day like someone that actually needs a diesel. They could still offer the base 6.2 V8 for commercial users that want the cheapest and simplest setup.

[325BH]

Originally Posted by dustman_stx

If I could get a 500HP/600TQ twin turbo V8 that would get 14 combined unloaded (real world) for a $3K or less premium over the base 6.2 V8 I'd ditch the diesel in a heartbeat. I don't see why they couldn't easily achieve this with some basic tuning??? Have an economy mode that cuts boost and ramps the boost less slowly for everyday driving and you can maximize economy. Have a tow haul mode that ramps boost quickly and increases torque output. Maybe a sport mode that drivers could select if they want to keep the power output elevated but have a different shift pattern than the tow/haul mode would have??? This would be a great truck for people that need the payload capacity of an HD truck, but don't need the ability to haul every day like someone that actually needs a diesel. They could still offer the base 6.2 V8 for commercial users that want the cheapest and simplest setup.

I think the problem is the mileage. I don't see how a twin turbo of that capacity would get better mileage than the 6.2.

[dustman_stx]

Originally Posted by 325BH

I think the problem is the mileage. I don't see how a twin turbo of that capacity would get better mileage than the 6.2.

All evidence indicates that the 6.4 Hemi gets several MPG better, which is counter-intuitive as well. Once again, I think the key would be in the tuning of an economy mode. With variable valve timing and variable vane technology allowing you to modify how much boost and how quickly the boost comes on, I think it's doable. But then again, I'm pretty ignorant about all of this new engine tech, and many things we're ignorant of seem like they'd be easy!

[rockfordroo]

Originally Posted by dustman_stx

All evidence indicates that the 6.4 Hemi gets several MPG better, which is counter-intuitive as well. Once again, I think the key would be in the tuning of an economy mode. With variable valve timing and variable vane technology allowing you to modify how much boost and how quickly the boost comes on, I think it's doable. But then again, I'm pretty ignorant about all of this new engine tech, and many things we're ignorant of seem like they'd be easy!

The devil's in the details!

[m35a2]

My diesel ram gets 23 on the highway at 75mph and 19 on the 40 mile backroad/ 20 mile city round trip commute to and from work.

My wife's 1500 Hemi would probably get around that if she would keep her foot out of the pedal. She likes the sound of that hemi too much though.