Specifics on payload shortage........

[Crusadernoob]

[QUOTE=lesptr;1564187]I would never knowingly fly an airplane that is over weight. I treat towing numbers the same way. I don't understand how anyone can be over weight in any area and think it's ok. How bout we load up my airplane 500 pounds above MTOW and head for Hawaii. Who wants to go. Anyone?

Only if we fly over the Rockies first!

[goduc]

As long as you own a Ram CTD then towing overweight shouldn't be a problem

[doc73]

Originally Posted by goduc

As long as you own a Ram CTD then towing overweight shouldn't be a problem

Yep.. Deploy those moose antlers and go baby go! LOL

[DreiHunde]

Originally Posted by doc73

Yep.. Deploy those moose antlers and go baby go! LOL

PER-FECT.

[Oakman]

I don’t get involved with these discussions too often but I’m going to on this one. Why do you want to come across to another RVer as a know-it-all? If someone says “so what” then it’s time to change the conversation or walk away. If you continue to force the weight police conversation on someone then you are simply going to be seen as an “ass.”

[CaptnJohn]

Originally Posted by doc73

Yep.. Deploy those moose antlers and go baby go! LOL

Right! 🐭 Or is it mouse antlers?

[lesptr]

[QUOTE=Crusadernoob;1564607]

Originally Posted by lesptr

I would never knowingly fly an airplane that is over weight. I treat towing numbers the same way. I don't understand how anyone can be over weight in any area and think it's ok. How bout we load up my airplane 500 pounds above MTOW and head for Hawaii. Who wants to go. Anyone?



Only if we fly over the Rockies first!

4 pm departure from Aspen?

[spock123]

Originally Posted by great white

To play devils advocate here, I have. British Columbia, Canada enforces overweight RV's. At least they did for a friend of mine.

I've had to drive off the island with my 3/4 ton to retrieve his trailer.

The RCMP had pulled him over in Hope and escorted him to the commercial weigh scale. He was over his truck's rated limits (1500 GMC) and they weren't going to let him proceed until he was under his limits or got a bigger truck. With no way to offload weight, he had to give me a call.

In all fairness, my bud was overweight (and not by a small amount) as I knew he ran heavily over his truck's limits on a regular basis. I had mentioned it to him before, but he dismissed it so I didn't pursue the conversation. Not my place....

When I got to Hope, the RCMP casually looked at my 3/4 ton and let me hook up with no questions. Probably because my truck was a 3/4 ton diesel (98 gmc) and it was the "heavy" model at 8600 GVWR (8 lug, 14 bolt rear, 4L80E, etc). Had he looked closer, he would have known the weight I was going to pull was probably close to even my limit. But I had E tires on the truck, air bags and a WD hitch that made everything look " right" once the trailer was on the back. Didn't even ask me to scale it.

We had a little conversation and the Officer told me they had pulled my friend over because the truck and trailer "looked" overweight. He related to me they have "clues" that they use to decide if they want to check out a truck or not. The size of the trailer and being a 1500 was one, the rear tires on the truck were "bulged" was another, that truck had a fair bit of "squat" and the trailer was in a somewhat nose down attitude was the nail in the coffin.

The fine would have been stiff, but not ridiculously steep. Would have sucked all the same. The officer let my bud go with a warning, I think mostly because he knew he was going to be paying me a fair bit of compensation. He paid my fuel, my food, the ferry charges and of course lets not forget.......

Of course, a few weeks later my bud was off on another trip, same setup except he had thrown a set of bags on the back......

Although I've never run across one, I've been told BC RCMP does "weight traps" from time to time in the mountainous areas for RV's.

So, weight laws may not be enforced everywhere, but they are in c=some places by some officers.

Will you ever get stopped?

Probably not.

But if you do, man...it's going to suck.

I just came back from a trip to Alaska and I went through BC and never saw any RCMP stopping any campers checking weight, I don't even think I saw but one police officer the whole time I was in Canada and that was at the border. As far as DOT stopping campers to weigh them, that's a laugh. If DOT was to start stopping campers at weigh stations there would be no place for the commercial trucks to stop at, weigh stations would be full of campers. Weight police on these sites can scream all they want but I guarantee that DOT will not start weighing campers.

[doc73]

Originally Posted by spock123

I just came back from a trip to Alaska and I went through BC and never saw any RCMP stopping any campers checking weight, I don't even think I saw but one police officer the whole time I was in Canada and that was at the border. As far as DOT stopping campers to weigh them, that's a laugh. If DOT was to start stopping campers at weigh stations there would be no place for the commercial trucks to stop at, weigh stations would be full of campers. Weight police on these sites can scream all they want but I guarantee that DOT will not start weighing campers.

It's not just the dot that do weights just so you are aware.. Around here dot is rare and run by our state police. Local police do most enforcement and that is commercial and passenger.. But in full disclosure never stopped and rv for weight but have weighted numerous passenger noncommercial vehicle.

[DreiHunde]

Originally Posted by doc73

It's not just the dot that do weights just so you are aware.. Around here dot is rare and run by our state police. Local police do most enforcement and that is commercial and passenger.. But in full disclosure never stopped and rv for weight but have weighted numerous passenger noncommercial vehicle.

Yep, I see NCHP Troopers weighing non commercial vehicles quite often...usually the guy with the 20 year old F150 dragging a trailer loaded down with a enough lumber to build a house on it. "Its all good officer, I'm only going a couple of miles"....You know...its just a Redneck thing

[BandJCarm]

Originally Posted by Oakman

I don’t get involved with these discussions too often but I’m going to on this one. Why do you want to come across to another RVer as a know-it-all? If someone says “so what” then it’s time to change the conversation or walk away. If you continue to force the weight police conversation on someone then you are simply going to be seen as an “ass.”

Understand your point.

IF it is someone on here........a "remote friend" as I call them....then that makes sense.

But if it is a personal friend, that you have conversations with face to face, and they don't mind having discussions that don't involve 100% agreement, then maybe so.

Sidebar: I've noticed that there are about 2 kinds of folks in the world (at a minimum). One kind hates Confrontations. Period. They don't like them, even if they are right. If you have a conversation with these folks, and you disagree, you simply can't say so. You have to just shut up. They see disagreement as confrontation, and the avoid it. Even if they are right, they will remember you as confrontational.

Not much gets accomplished with that kind of folk.

The other kind doesn't mind 'confrontations' because they know that knowledge comes from new ideas, not the ones you already hold. You either know everything there is to know already, or you have to disagree with someone on occasion.

Back to the discussion.

Maybe I learned a big reason why this guy (he's just one of many) feels the way he does. His wife will "NOT HAVE" a dually! LOL

So yeah........discussions are meaningless with him! He'll pull his 5th wheel with a Yugo before he'll have a Dually.

ME? If I thought a SRW would pull it fine, I'd LOVE to have one instead of the Dually!!! But I have NEVER been driving down the road and thought "Wow, I've got TOO much truck behind me, I need to downsize". I HAVE thought on many occasions "WOW, I wish I had a Freightliner!"

[great white]

Originally Posted by spock123

I just came back from a trip to Alaska and I went through BC and never saw any RCMP stopping any campers checking weight, I don't even think I saw but one police officer the whole time I was in Canada and that was at the border. As far as DOT stopping campers to weigh them, that's a laugh. If DOT was to start stopping campers at weigh stations there would be no place for the commercial trucks to stop at, weigh stations would be full of campers. Weight police on these sites can scream all they want but I guarantee that DOT will not start weighing campers.

Just because you didn't see it or few RCMP doesn't mean they aren't out there and aren't doing it. That's like saying Saturn doesn't exist because you've never seen it.



Canada is a big place and so are it's provinces. Add to that we're sparsely populated by land size and you can go for days without seeing an RCMP car. You're not going to see a lot of police presence in northern BC. Sparse population means sparse enforcement. The meat of the manpower is going to be focused around the delta area, tourism areas and the lower Island. There will also be more presence in the mountain passes since there's lots of traffic and lots of changing weather conditions. At least that was my experience when I lived there.

What they will often do though, is pick a stretch of road and set up on it. They do it with lots of things, like speed traps. One day there's noting on a stretch of highway, the next day they have 5 or so cars there: one with the gun, one or two with the gun to chase down what they think they can catch, several down the road to intercept after the call comes in to stop such-and-such a vehicle. The idea is you never know where the enforcement is going to be, so you should be abiding by the laws all the time (although we all know it doesn't quite work that way in the real world). The RCMP are relatively small for the area they have to cover, but they do what they can, and when you're caught, you're caught.

While this is not the statute, if is put out by the BC gov about the statute:

https://www.th.gov.bc.ca/cvse/vehicl...PDF/MV3230.pdf

First thing on the sheet right after the title:

Check your owner’s manual to find your vehicle’s towing capability. If you tow a load that is too heavy for your vehicle, you create a potential safety risk for yourself and others on the road. Motor Vehicle Act Regulations in British Columbia prohibit the operation of vehicles that are unsafe or improperly loaded and exceed either the Gross Axle Rating (GAWR) or the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR). The Province is focusing on vehicles that are obviously overweight and pose a risk to the safety of other motorists. These regulations apply to vehicles manufactured after January 1, 2001 that have a GVWR of 5500 kg or less.

The "obviously over weight" thing is what the RCMP were telling me about bulging tires, vehicle attitudes, fifth wheels on half tons, triple axle toy haulers, toy hauler on a half ton, etc. And yup, they do open the door and check your GVWR sticker when they scale you....it's how my bud got hard burned to where they wouldn't even let him move out of the weight scale parking area.

"DOT" is a USA thing, we have a federal over sight known as "transportation and safety" but each province administers it's own territory. You have to be careful trying to apply USA knowledge to Canada. Many things are similar, but not the same. It can get you burned if you happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

BC is under all ICBC if I remember. Commercial and Personal. RCMP have authority under the provincial traffic laws to pull over any RV they feel is overweight and if they take you to a commercial scale, the operator is going to weigh you on their say so. RCMP generally don't bother with commercial traffic unless there's something obvious, there's a separate provincial agency to enforce rules on commercial traffic. Commercial scales are not backed up in Canada, for many reasons. One is they have "weigh on the go" which uses telemetry from the truck and traffic is general just isn't as heavy as you would see in the states. They also have portable scales and will use them. Again, Canada is similar to the USA, but not the same.

BC has all kinds of weird and wonderful rules for RV's in general. Like if your trailer is over 4600 kg (as it sits, not on a sticker or OEM info) you have to go up a class in your license. Just a class 4, 5 or 7 won't do if you get pulled over. You need a class 1,2,or 3 (CDL), heavy trailer endorsement or code house trailer endorsement (all of which include written, driving and medical testing):

https://www.icbc.com/driver-licensin...creational.pdf

FYI, they consider all toy haulers to be over the 4600 KG limit.

BC is the strictest of all Canadian Provinces when it comes to vehicle laws and RV's in particular.

Now, whether they enforce these laws at the time you run across them (or if you run across them at all) is a different story.

Most of the RCMP I knew out there didn't bother out of country plates much unless something looked unsafe or wrong. Inter provincial plates are a different story. The general assumption (as it was related to me by a couple differnt officers) is you are Canadian; you should know better. They often stop you to make sure you are within weights and that you are at least aware of the fact that BC is just a little bit "different" than other provinces when it comes to RV's.

There was usually a big push on weights every year at the general beginning of the RV season. Both on the mainland and on the Island. That's was as much about educating people as it is was about writing tickets and pulling overweight rigs off the road. The other big push when I was out there was hunting season. They'd set up the portable scales on side roads and be looking for truck slide in campers as they can very easily push you over GVWR and GAWR.

Thing is; actual "weight police" is a fact in BC. Take exception with that if you want, it won't change the reality that it happens one bit.

Whether or not you get caught is a different story....

[spock123]

Well we saw right many toy haulers, right many with three axles and we never saw any weight police with a camper pulled over, looks like we would have seen at least one. Campgrounds filled up every night, oh well maybe next year. There sure is right many beautiful places to visit in Canada.

[spock123]

Originally Posted by BandJCarm

Understand your point.



IF it is someone on here........a "remote friend" as I call them....then that makes sense.



But if it is a personal friend, that you have conversations with face to face, and they don't mind having discussions that don't involve 100% agreement, then maybe so.



Sidebar: I've noticed that there are about 2 kinds of folks in the world (at a minimum). One kind hates Confrontations. Period. They don't like them, even if they are right. If you have a conversation with these folks, and you disagree, you simply can't say so. You have to just shut up. They see disagreement as confrontation, and the avoid it. Even if they are right, they will remember you as confrontational.



Not much gets accomplished with that kind of folk.



The other kind doesn't mind 'confrontations' because they know that knowledge comes from new ideas, not the ones you already hold. You either know everything there is to know already, or you have to disagree with someone on occasion.



Back to the discussion.



Maybe I learned a big reason why this guy (he's just one of many) feels the way he does. His wife will "NOT HAVE" a dually! LOL



So yeah........discussions are meaningless with him! He'll pull his 5th wheel with a Yugo before he'll have a Dually.



ME? If I thought a SRW would pull it fine, I'd LOVE to have one instead of the Dually!!! But I have NEVER been driving down the road and thought "Wow, I've got TOO much truck behind me, I need to downsize". I HAVE thought on many occasions "WOW, I wish I had a Freightliner!"

I bet my Silverado 3500 SRW would pull a Cedar Creek 36CKTS just fine, of course a Freightliner could pull the camper too but where on earth would you park it at and going out to eat you would have to call a cab. People will pull what they want to pull there camper with. I'm not going to end a friendship over what someone pulls there camper with. Just my two cents

[great white]

Originally Posted by spock123

Well we saw right many toy haulers, right many with three axles and we never saw any weight police with a camper pulled over, looks like we would have seen at least one. Campgrounds filled up every night, oh well maybe next year. There sure is right many beautiful places to visit in Canada.

[spock123]

Originally Posted by great white

I didn't get that one, oh well

[emm-dee]

Originally Posted by BandJCarm

I need facts, more than "it's against the law". I need (or want, actually) to know what physical and technical problems being overloaded causes.

Not getting real answers. Hmmmmmm. I know that I don't know!!! I have no clue what damage it might cause. But I need damage expectations, towing anomalies, not just law. Meaning, I won't win any discussions with nothing but "law" on my side.

I don't think you will ever get the facts. The manufacturers are not going to release that information, or even if they know the real facts. It's possible that during testing they reached a point where they say "that's good enough" and then put out a max weight number that is a lot less than "that's good enough".

It's well known that many 2500/250 series trucks are produced showing a maximum vehicle weight of 10,000 pounds. That number probably has little to do with what the truck can actually can be operated at. It's a number that complies with taxing laws. I claim no knowledge of other states but, until recently, in Georgia the annual license cost for a 10,000 pound max vehicle weight was $20. If the weight was 10,001 or more that number went up to $200-$300 or more. I say "until recently" because the law was changed and now the $20 figure is applicable for trucks up to 14,000 pounds. Hmmmm, funny how all the big-3 manufacturers publish a max truck weight (dually) at or just under that number. I'm sure a lot of other states use those same numbers.

Since we all know that knowing the actual (mechanical) weight limits for out vehicles is an impossible task, consider the following.

Assume you are a passenger in an airliner flying along at cruising altitude. Well, we already know you're having a bad day because you're stuck in the back of a metal tube with a whole bunch of other folks who also don't want to be there. So, as you ride along one of the rivets pops out of the right wing. No big deal you say...there are a few thousand more out there. Then, a second rivet pops out. Then, the third (and fourth, fifth, 101st, etc etc etc). Tell me...how many rivets have to pop out before the wing breaks and you crash and burn. The manufacturer doesn't even know because during testing where the wing is flexed and loaded to the point it breaks a lot of rivets fail prior to the break. But, that number changes every time the test is done. Now, we know that the rivets really don't have anything to do with whether or not the wing breaks, but the number that leave is a good indication of something else failing that will really cause the failure.

So, for those of y'all that just load and go, tell me how many rivets you can load (after reaching max weight) before something breaks on either the truck or trailer.

[spock123]

I think it's a little bit different to go from pulling a camper to flying a plane, you want to compare apples to apples not apples to oranges. If something should happen to my truck I have only got to fall a foot or two, I don't have wings so I don't care much about flying. I have never seen a truck fall apart riding on the road. I use to be a part time beekeeper and I moved the hives quite a bit and the truck I used was a S-10 chevy and I always loaded to many hives on truck. Truck would sit down on the back really bad because it was overloaded so bad. I was stopped a few times for a license check by the North Carolina Highway Patrol and do you think any of the police would ever ask for my license. They knew looking at the truck that I was overloaded but I had at least 10,000 bees around the truck. They would just get out of the way and tell me to drive on, didn't even ask about the seatbelt I wasn't wearing. The point is I don't think most people even care about what they weigh, I know I don't. Well the weight police do but hardly anyone else.

[Hoyt]

In another thread a fellow is swapping out his RV because his 2001 F350 DRW 7.3l turbo is too light by ~2000#. 20000# max for truck and trailer. Yet a 2010 F350 DRW 6.4l turbo is rated for 26000#. Thats something like 24%. I ask myself what the difference is...all i come up with is suspension (obvious because the payload is up) but what else? The things I can think of are brakes, bigger discs more pistons in the callipers, better friction material (ceramic in some cases, better materials used for rotor, better brake fluids (less susceptible to brake fade). Other things might be tougher transmissions and improved fluids, stronger axles and gear sets. Tires, which have been mentioned in other posts. Cooling of all these things mentioned and the engine and power steering. What am I missing? Can these things add up to a 24% increase in the vehicles GCWR? Anyway, just food for thought.
I am interested only because I pull my 2604WS with a 300K kms 1998 suburban. I suspect I am over when I get everything loaded and full of water.

As another member said on this other thread I spoke of, Wouldn't the results be interesting if we got an true result poll of everyones weight vs tow vehicle rating. I have a guess about what it might reveal.

[TKPINSC]

A point missed by many is the DOT and the various state acronyms jurisdiction is commercial drivers driving commercial vehicles. When a commercial truck is passing a scale it is just as likely to be time logs, license or medical card issues as weight issues. They also randomly pull trucks at scales and on the highway for vehicle inspections. Overweight tickets result in fines and increased DOT safety scores for the companies, usually not driver points. Some operators in some industries like logging and container cartage treat overweight fines as a cost of business. It only takes a handful of overweight loads to make back the fines when they are caught.

The various agencies charged with enforcement of commercial vehicle laws are not usually interested in boats, campers etc unless being pulled by a for hire vehicle.

I don't know anyone who has been ticketed for an overweight camper, however I'm sure an ambitious and bored officer has written a few up somewhere. I do know folks who have been ticketed and had to drop overweight trailers loaded with firewood and gravel. In these instances the vehicles were clearly unsafe due to weight. No scale involved. Unsafe driving/careless and negligent type tickets.

If you are driving a combo that is clearly sagging, has bulging tires, weather cracked tires, missing lights or otherwise appears to be unsafe or unable to pass an inspection expect to be stopped. If your combination appears safe and gas any required plates and inspection stickers up to date the officer will probably assume it is legal.

The exception is states where private vehicles register by weight a local officer my see some easy revenue if he suspects you are over your registered weight. I doubt he will care about manufacturer ratings unless that is how you are taxed.

These are my observations as a commercial driver and frequent TT traveler.

My gut reaction is a grossly overloaded combo in an accident would work against you but if this is your concern a lawyer not an internet forum is the place to ask.