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Old 04-25-2013, 04:38 PM   #101
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Put this on pause for a minute. I need to get some more Pizza.
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Old 04-25-2013, 04:38 PM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djkarau View Post
Door weights are not put there by Engineers rather by Lawyers!

Lawyers get paid to guarantee the manufacturer that they will not be exposed to the risk of litigation NOT damage!

The numbers on your door are set such that if you overload your truck by an acceptable amount (to be determined by the courts) that the courts would not see the manufacturer as having overstated the safe capabilities of the trucks various parts.

This explains why farmers and 100s if not 1000s of RV'rs have "gotten away" with overloading their trucks.

All things being equal if you do not exceed the door numbers "nothing bad will happen"(safe experienced driver, in a well serviced vehicle, in normal driving conditions)

More popcorn please!
I totally believe that. Read here.

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/200...ng-conspiracy/

My vehicle, for example, has a 5000lb tow rating in North America, where as Europe and Australia, has a 7400ish lb tow rating.
Also, my vehicle has the same front GAWR as the gasser. Apparently they never changed the specs on the door because I am over with just passengers and no cargo.
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Old 04-25-2013, 06:55 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by dustman_stx View Post
No one here is advocating exceeding axle weight ratings. You are coming to the discussion a little late and apparently aren't reading everything that's been stated.
Read every post. Never saw ANYONE talk about axle ratings. Tow ratings, truck ratings, tire ratings, legal limits....but not axle ratings.

As to ag hauling - I live in a ag area, pa. Maybe it's different out west - maybe it's flat there too (i hear kansas is, I know indiana and western ohio are). Pa is NOT flat - maybe around erie or philly, but not anyplace else. And i've never seen a hay trailer on a hiway. Cattle and pigs, chickens, yes. Horses of course, they're everywhere around here.

Triple bottoms are not legal in PA - hills and curves being the issue. In ohio? Sure. A lot depends on YOUR local conditions.

Limits are limits - for whatever reason and by whomever makes them up. Exceeding them is exceeding them. Can it be done without incident? Yes - that was my point about the speed limit.
To run 75 loaded will of course increase your wear and tear and drop your MPG. But if everyone is running 75 and you're doing 55 you are, IMO, in about as bad a situation as if you were running 'too fast' with everyone else.

I do have some good news for you - I'll post that separately.
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Old 04-25-2013, 07:04 PM   #104
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An engineer responds - my brother in law had 22 years as an engineer with Chevy, a degree in engineering, an MBA and is now an engineer with the navy.
Quote:
The direct answer is: LAWYERS.

None of the companies want to take liability for a mishap. There is a lot of engineering that goes into the frame, the powertrain, and the brakes. However, once that is done, legal normally puts a 'fudge factor' in so that if a mishap should occur, it is less likely that the company will be held liable. Just like the anecdotes on the internet, if sued, the company will be able to find LOADS of data to indicate that the product did not cause the problem and that it must have been something else.

Manufacturers and insurance companies generally know what their limits are. Down here in Florida where there are no hills and very few sharp turns, you could probably get away with hauling MUCH more than the manufacturers recommendation. However, should something happen, not only will the manufacturer deny liability, but your insurance company may not have to honor a claim if they can prove that you overloaded the vehicle whether purposely or through negligence of not researching the limits of the vehicle.

Work trucks and farm trucks regularly get abused. People get into situations where they just don't want to make two trips and the like. I'm sure you can find plenty of stories. In your case, you should have all of the data for what you are going to haul and I would make sure it stays within the limits. Especially in your area with twists and turns and hills. Also, take into account that on a road trip with a trailer, you will probably have the family along. A mishap that is not even your fault (cut off by a motorcycle or something) could turn into a financial nightmare if lawyers and insurance companies that weren't even there determine that an overloaded vehicle could have contributed to the accident.

Back to your original statement, these ratings are recommendations and the manufacturers stand behind those ratings in just about any on-road conditions you may find in the US. The actual performance of the vehicle could be dramatically different in different areas, but you should be able to perform to the ratings in the worst case scenarios - again, on the roads in the US.

I know it's as clear as mud, but I hope this helps. Actually, any debate is really pointless unless you are willing to take somebody's advice knowing that you may be responsible for what happens next.
I bolded what I think is the pertinent point - Dustman may be right with his terminology of 'recommendations'
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Old 04-25-2013, 07:06 PM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prof_fate View Post
.

Limits are limits - for whatever reason and by whomever makes them up. Exceeding them is exceeding them. Can it be done without incident? Yes - that was my point about the speed limit.
To run 75 loaded will of course increase your wear and tear and drop your MPG. But if everyone is running 75 and you're doing 55 you are, IMO, in about as bad a situation as if you were running 'too fast' with everyone else.

I do have some good news for you - I'll post that separately.
And, ratings are ratings. Ratings are not limits.

I sit in a chair that is rated at 225lbs. I weigh 300 plus. I exceeded what the manufacturer guarantees the chair will hold.
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Old 04-25-2013, 08:39 PM   #106
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prof_fate - thanks for asking him. It was a learning experience for me.
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Old 04-25-2013, 08:41 PM   #107
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As much as I like to stir the pot sometimes, perhaps it is time to put a close to this thread.

We have heard from many people here ranging from those that are new to towing, to those that have been towing for long periods of time, to those that have been involved in the engineering of tow vehicles. While not easy to put a summary on this entire thread, I will give it a shot.

Each owner of a tow vehicle and trailer is ultimately responsibile for the decision of how large and heavy of a trailer they can tow with how large or small of a vehicle. There are many things that one must take into consideration to help make their decision, and those that are looking to make it should read through this thread and can and should come up with their own list based on their own requirements.

Opinions are also of plenty here, and everywhere on the Internet, as to what this answer might be. These opinions can and should be used to help one make a decision. The real answer to the question of can my truck haul this will need to be based on ones own personal, values, beliefs, experience, and abilities. Some may put safety and risk as their main priority and elect to stay within the weighted values for both the truck and trailer (therefor choosing a larger truck or a smaller trailer), while others are comfortable gauging this answer based on their own beliefs and through years of experience or even current financial situation.

Eventually it will all come down to you, the poster and reader of this thread, to answer this question for yourself. All that I can say is drive safely, think about yourself, your family, and others on the roads that you will travel. Only you will know your abilities and how those abilities can be utilized in your tow vehicle while hauling your trailer.

Make the decision that is right for you and once the drive is over and you have setup shop at the campground, most of all have fun! Life is too short to waste!

-------(probably) my last post to this thread----------

Oh, and if you want to talk about how much weight can a kayak carry, talk to ependydad! LOL....sorry, had to add some humor to this.
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Old 04-25-2013, 08:45 PM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChooChooMan74 View Post
And, ratings are ratings. Ratings are not limits.

I sit in a chair that is rated at 225lbs. I weigh 300 plus. I exceeded what the manufacturer guarantees the chair will hold.
Excellent example.

If you sit in the chair and it fails, breaking your back; try and file a product liability law suit. No lawyer will take this on contingency; you are going to pay up front. Why? Because you will lose.

Did you buy the chair new? yes

When you opened the packaging did you notice the warning about the 225 maximum weight boldly printed on the cover, printed on the tag affixed to the chair, and on the documentation inside the packaging? yes

Were you aware of your weight when you sat in the chair that you owned?
yes

So, you accept full responsibility for any damage or injury caused by your actions? Case dismissed and, oh yea, you will be paying court costs and the chair manufacturer's lawyers.
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Old 04-25-2013, 09:07 PM   #109
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Originally Posted by ependydad View Post
prof_fate - thanks for asking him. It was a learning experience for me.

After all that came this: "Actually, any debate is really pointless unless you are willing to take somebody's advice knowing that you may be responsible for what happens next."

Ain't it the truth...
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Old 04-25-2013, 09:18 PM   #110
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What a journey this thread has been. Both sides have made excellent points, and as I mentioned before- I've personally learned a lot. Things I was certain about have been given a different perspective and new questions have been opened in my mind. I think that's the general idea behind these kinds of debates and discussions.

I want to thank all of you for your participation- we managed to remain civil to each other and stayed pretty focused on the discussion. Each of you brought your own background and point of view. I also want to say that QCCowboy has done an impressive job of summarizing the post in a way that really reflects the differences of opinions.
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