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Old 04-25-2013, 09:19 AM   #51
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Passenger aircraft have similar standards. I wouldn't fly on one if I knew it exceeded the safety criterion established by the FAA... Jus' sayin'
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Old 04-25-2013, 09:25 AM   #52
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Passenger aircraft have similar standards. I wouldn't fly on one if I knew it exceeded the safety criterion established by the FAA... Jus' sayin'
How would you know if it did exceed the limits, demand a wt ticket before boarding?
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Old 04-25-2013, 09:32 AM   #53
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The most important thing that I want to convey is something I said in an earlier post - I don't care if someone else overloads their truck as long as they do it knowingly. Know how to calculate your payload. Know how to determine if you're overloaded or not. If you are going to tow overloaded, do it knowingly and within your own justification. It's just not for me.


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But, riddle me this - where have you found that the manufacturer's publish that these are RECOMMENDATIONS since you're determined that's what they are?
What would you say they are?
I answered this in an earlier post - they are ratings. The owner's manual describes them as such. I'd still like to see your official documentation where they're described as recommendations.


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No. They might not be safe at all with any load. There are worlds of people that shouldn't be driving at all, much less towing. And since there is no way of knowing a person's experience level, type of terrain where they'll be towing, type of load, whether or not pin weight is correct, if load is distributed evenly, or a myriad of other variables, I'm having a hard time understanding how you can be so dogmatic about the published numbers being THE point where you transition from safe to unsafe.
I know you changed your answer slightly, but I'll address part of this here. Given what you said above, you haven't said it nor do I believe you mean it - but it gives the impression that if you haven't towed for a long time, you shouldn't be towing. It gives you the chicken vs. egg scenario - how do you tow without experience? And without experience, you shouldn't tow.

But, to clarify - I have never said (nor event meant to imply) that you are SAFE if you stay within your payload specs. I've tried to say, given the same driver, same truck and different loads - you are safer using equipment according to it's published designed-limits. I've never worked at Chrysler and don't have access to their test results, therefore, I have no idea if my specs are the absolute max, are 1%-100% underrated for the lawyers or other goblins. I don't know and therefore I choose to go by what is published.


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I responded to this earlier and have reconsidered. I suppose you do have a point that, YES, a newbie would be safer with smaller load, but how far do you take that? If they have 2000 pounds of payload would they be safer with that amount than 2500? I'll go along with that. But wouldn't they be safer with 1500? 1000? So why give them the 2000 manufacturer number blindly? Why not reduce that? Is that the magic number? Wouldn't someone with no towing experience be safer driving a Prius to a cabin? I know I'm going to the extreme here, but I'm just trying to say that the number on the sticker is not the be all, end all, of a truck's capacity.
I obviously can't argue that a newbie may be safer not towing at all (I've seen some horrendous drivers in the past living and working in DC; heck- I was 16 once and unintentionally slide my sister's car off the road because I was mad one night). But, I'm not saying the amount of load makes them safer vs. less safe. With my 3,000 pound pop-up, I got sway bad enough on the highway to yank my Durango around yet with the 14,000 pound fifth wheel, I don't recall a scenario where I've felt like I was out of control.

All I'm saying is, given the same driver and same vehicle - yes, you're inherently more safe in a truck that's being operated within it's ratings vs. one outside of those parameters.

I'm a newbie and I'm a computer programmer - I don't know trucks. I can put fuel in it, maybe wrench on a couple of extremely simple modifications (bed cover, tailgate assist, etc.). I can't change oil, brakes and have never changed a tire. I had a learning curve when it came to topping up my tires and understanding the 2 pressure gauges on my air compressor. I'm exactly the guy who you do NOT want to say (in fact, I had people tell me)- "that 14,000 pound fifth wheel... yeah, you'll overload the truck but you're fine." You haven't quantified how much it's OK to overload by (10%, 1,000 pounds over GVWR, 2,000 pounds over GVWR- what's OK? When does it stop being ok?).

Now, being a book-learning computer geek- I'm now going to want you to show me the documentation where it says, "These are the design parameters and it's acceptable to exceed them by X." I don't know you from my uncle (or my wife's uncle in this case - "You don't need a dually. I have one, but you don't need one. They're too hard to drive. You shouldn't get one.") Well, my recent trip to the scales tells me that to stay within my ratings, I needed the dually.

The problem is- this documentation doesn't exist. I have to go by "your instinct and experience". In my world, that's just simply not good enough.


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I'd at least like to hear what advice you'd give to someone in the ag industry that is constantly hauling various types of loads per my hypothetical. Maybe get a Peterbuilt to pull a lowboy just to be sure.
As I said in a previous post and at the top of this one - if you choose to overload your truck, understand that you're doing so and make it an educated decision. If I were in the AG industry, I imagine I'd know a heck of a lot more about trucks than being in the computer industry. If I knew a heck of a lot more about trucks, maybe I could justify overloading. I don't and can't. It's not for me.


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O come on ependydad, at least have a little fun with it.
I truly don't find these "discussions" fun. There's nothing you say that will make me decide I should overload my truck. And there's nothing I say that will make you go, "Hmm, maybe I shouldn't tell everyone they are OK to overload their truck."
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Old 04-25-2013, 09:38 AM   #54
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Well, they sure as heck couldn't be speeding with an overloaded small truck! DUH!
Sure they can:

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Engine & Tranny are capable, unfortunately the truck's weight limitations are not enough for that camper.
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(my edit- extrapolated from Turb's answer)Sounds good, that answers my questions. No problems being over payload capacity, keep length and total weight in check, thanks!
And, the most favorite one of the "weight police":
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Originally Posted by Random_Weight_Police
Sure it can pull it, but can it stop it.
So, duh- people obviously believe it's possible.

Are you telling me that your truck can't get your camper up to 70?
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Old 04-25-2013, 09:41 AM   #55
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Wink

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Old 04-25-2013, 09:46 AM   #56
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Gotta say, it's always entertaining listening to people justify their decisions, right wrong or otherwise.

I'm a new TT owner. My F150 tows my 23SS just fine from a "feel" standpoint. And then I got on the scale and found out my rear axle was 200lbs overloaded. Quite surprising. And with that information comes the power to make a different decision (adjust the load, take less stuff, etc).

Is 200lbs overloaded (+5% over manufacturer spec) something to worry about? Probably not. But at least knowing where I'm at allows me to make an informed decision.

All you guys out there guessing, or throwing caution to the wind knowing full well you are overloaded, I hope you have good karma.
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Old 04-25-2013, 09:53 AM   #57
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...Are you telling me that your truck can't get your camper up to 70?
Sure it can, but it is a very rare occurrence.

My only gripe is all the "Unsafe" declarations made here about weight with no regard to the idiots pulling rvs over 65 mph just because they are pulling with a dually or equivalent and are not overloaded.

You sure don't see underpowered, overloaded trucks pulling rvs 75+ mph is all I'm saying.
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Old 04-25-2013, 09:58 AM   #58
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Sure it can, but it is a very rare occurrence.

My only gripe is all the "Unsafe" declarations made here about weight with no regard to the idiots pulling rvs over 65 mph just because they are pulling with a dually or equivalent and are not overloaded.
I don't disagree- I just don't entirely see how it's pertinent to the discussion of going over or staying within your ratings.
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Old 04-25-2013, 10:00 AM   #59
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How would you know if it did exceed the limits, demand a wt ticket before boarding?
I'm sure you somehow think your point is valid as result of your logic.

As a former military aircraft crew chief, I'd be busted if I knowingly overloaded your plane. In a subsequent court martial I could defend my actions by stating 'my standards make more sense in my opinion'.

And if you were judge, you'd somehow find that logical and humorous...
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Old 04-25-2013, 10:40 AM   #60
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We all be like:



LOL....exactly!
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