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Old 04-25-2013, 01:23 PM   #71
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I've sent the quesiton to my brother in law, a GM engineer for 22 years to see what he says.

SAE has a tow ratings based on real world testing.

Here GM adjusted the ratings from 2012 to 2013 trucks, some by as little as 200 lbs. That is a small change...one average passenger or perhaps a big dog.
Tow Ratings Adjust for 2013 GM Pickups - PickupTrucks.com News

To quote from the article -
Quote:
"The reduction in trailer weight ratings for 2013 is a result of SAE J2807,” said Dean Perelli, chief engineer for GM trucks. “J2807 applies to all vehicles that are 13,000 pounds GVWR and below, therefore affecting all light-duty and some heavy-duty pickup trucks.”

In the past, each manufacturer set its own criteria for tow ratings. There was no uniform test procedure in the same manner that the Society of Automotive Engineers sets down for promoting engine horsepower numbers or standard procedures the EPA uses to determine estimated fuel economy. Without a common industry standard, it was tricky for truck shoppers to compare tow ratings fairly and accurately against other brands. Inexperienced truck consumers were especially vulnerable because they could be misled into believing the “maximum” tow rating used in advertising applied to every model in a particular truck line.
About the SAE rating system Tow Ratings Finally Pass the Sniff Test - The Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) - Automobile Magazine

So CAN your truck haul more? yes, but it won't pass 'the test'. Is this an issue? Those that design and build the vehicles we drive seem to think so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragin Cajun View Post
This discussion (Forum) really needs a auto engineer who designs these trucks to weigh in on the cold hard facts about all this tow capability stuff!

If your out there, please reply! LOL
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Old 04-25-2013, 01:24 PM   #72
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Maybe we should ask the trucking industry to use 3/4 ton trucks and 80k. Load them till they scrape the ground. If it isn't broke you're go to go!

I would have to say that going on a public forum and telling ANYONE it is ok to go over the ratings of their vehicles is just uncalled for.

That in itself is a dis-service to the members of our forum who are trying to understand and learn how to make a good choice about what they can tow and what they should avoid.

my 2 peanuts.

OT The sun is shining and it is 65 degrees outside and I am ready to go camping!

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Old 04-25-2013, 01:27 PM   #73
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Define 'safe' then.
You did it and never had an accident - it must have been safe then, right?

"safe" usually comes down to stopping distance or accident avoidance, mech failure while driving (hit a pothole and lose a spring, then the load shifts and you have an accident).

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Originally Posted by jtstromsburg View Post
Like i mentioned in a previous post, most construction companies, around here, haul overloaded daily. Once in a while a statie will stop them, but usually they are ticketed for not having a cdl. One small company i used to work for still runs a 97 chevy 3500 drw 454, with a 12' flatbed with boxes, both full of tools, and typically a 40' gooseneck with concrete forms, 700lbs of steel stakes, and two 10K lb skid steers. Runs speed limit, never any major truck service needed. That's how i used to tow. After getting my first tt two years ago, i have learned i was terribly unsafe all those years. Yet, i never had a problem? Does that make what i did right or ok? probably not, but for people who have towed popups or the similar, and read weight ratings, to decide they know more than the guys who pull 90% of the time just doesn't make sense to me.

That is all, but i may post in this thread again.
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Old 04-25-2013, 01:34 PM   #74
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I've been in court as an 'expert witness' on a couple of occassions on motocycle accidents.

"did the modification to the vehicle contribute the accident" was one issue, and the second was "who last worked on it, did they see the deficiency and did the inform the owner of it"

In these cases the prosecution/plaintiff was trying to identify the 'guilty party'- the one responsible for the accident/injury.

Yes, the guy pulled out in front of you and you hit him because 'you couldnt stop in time' - so whos fault, who pays? Him because he pulled out? You because you were 4k over the limit and your brakes just weren't capable of stopping you short of 100 yards?

You can drive like an idiot - or overload like one or fail to maintain your vehicle like one.
Now slide into a school bus and have bald tires on your car. Yes, I think your insurance company will pay but YOU are at fault for driving with bald tires.

You can smoke and consumer suger and not excersize and get sick and your insurance will pay. But wouldnt being healthy be a better, wiser choice?

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Originally Posted by dustman_stx View Post
Since someone brought up the legality of not exceeding the sticker weight- according to statements by LEOs on other forums, there is nothing legally binding about the sticker on the door of your truck. That sticker doesn't even have to be there. Do you fear being sued if you change tire size? What about repainting the truck? Changing axles? Running different tire pressure? These are all things that are posted on the truck but are modified constantly by people. Of all the forums I've been on and seen challenges to produce even one instance of someone being overloaded and being sued I've yet to see one case.
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Old 04-25-2013, 01:37 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lynkage View Post
i would have to say that going on a public forum and telling anyone it is ok to go over the ratings of their vehicles is just uncalled for.

That in itself is a dis-service to the members of our forum who are trying to understand and learn how to make a good choice about what they can tow and what they should avoid.
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Old 04-25-2013, 01:45 PM   #76
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Are you sure the specs are by the lawyers? May be engineers, warranty bean counters, marketing and sales depts.

Hyundai got nailed for drastically inflating its MPG rating on cars - it seems the EPA lets the companies test their own stuff. And rarely checks up on it. It took a class action lawsuit to get things righted.
Quote:
Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) announced the companies had overstated the gas mileage on over a third of their 2011-2013 model-year vehicles, including the Hyundai Elantra, Hyundai Santa Fe and Kia Soul. The EPA forced the companies to lower the vehicles’ MPG ratings on their window stickers by one to six miles per gallon.
Obviously it wasn't the lawyers in charge of what was advertised or put on the window stickers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dustman_stx View Post

Quick question: When manufactures are trying to "sue-proof" themselves with these ratings, do you think they are making assumptions that the load will be evenly distributed, solid, and hauled with an experienced driver??? Based upon my experience of seeing all of the idiotic warning labels on things that aren't needed for anyone with even an iota of intelligence, I tend to lean toward thinking those ratings are EXTREMELY conservative.
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Old 04-25-2013, 01:52 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by f1100turbo View Post
...Just because we tow at or slightly above posted manufactures limits doesn't mean we should persuade someone to do the same because WE do it. Some of you, like me may have 20+ years of towing experience where as brandon327 might not .
So given OUR experience should we tell someone of lesser experience "if that's the case or not" to go ahead with a "highly disputed towing scenario?
Turbs
By the same token, sounding the "Unsafe, you're creating a potential hazard" alarm for being a little over weight is just as disconcerting. Getting down to the 150# over is "Unsafe" level is a little ridiculous. Common sense has to come into play somewhere.
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Old 04-25-2013, 02:02 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by OldCoot View Post
By the same token, sounding the "Unsafe, you're creating a potential hazard" alarm for being a little over weight is just as disconcerting. Getting down to the 150# over is "Unsafe" level is a little ridiculous. Common sense has to come into play somewhere.
Just out of curiosity, how much overloaded is your 1/2 ton OC?
I believe you have air bags, so it probably rides really well, but how much are you over?
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Old 04-25-2013, 02:21 PM   #79
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I am not sure about the US definition but in Canada GVWR is clearly defined as a standard with the requirements to meet the standard available from the regulatory body: "The GVWR is a safety standard used to prevent overloading. Manufacturers set the GVWR based on requirements set by Transport Canada."

I wonder...... if we changed truck to canoe or boat in this discussion would anyone argue that you are safe going over the manufactures weight limits -- as long as the gunwale is above the water we are good to go
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Old 04-25-2013, 02:25 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by bakken View Post
Just out of curiosity, how much overloaded is your 1/2 ton OC?
I believe you have air bags, so it probably rides really well, but how much are you over?
Have no idea, only had it on the state scales in SC one time and bed of truck was loaded with awning pole material, fruit, etc. They weighted the whole rig, not individual axles, I don't remember, but it was considerably over the GCW. I do know that when I drop the 5er on the truck, it drops 1-1/4" in the rear and 1/2" in the front. Air bags bring it back to normal height in the rear and doesn't change the 1/2" drop in the front. We normally tow with nothing in the bed except 10 Lynx blocks and the tonneau cover cutout section.
BTW, it is a 5.3L with a 3.23 rear end and pulls just fine even in the mountains in NC. Don't go up them at 60mph, but neither do the semi's.
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