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Old 04-24-2013, 11:28 AM   #21
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Here's food for thought. Basic mechanical engineering will state that the weakest link will be the first to fail. Now if you were to tow to the max limits of a tow vehicle and of a trailer, but stay within posted weights, where do you think that weakest link is? Now if given the choice, and you MUST pick one, which would you overload first(by same percentage of gross) and feel more comfortable?
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Old 04-24-2013, 11:59 AM   #22
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The way I have it figured a average 3/4 ton truck only has about 1000 lbs of available payload for pin weight or tongue weight on a trailer. So there fore you would never be able to pull much of anything. Gcwr of a truck is much less than the gawr. Where do they get payload figures from? The way I see it a as a farmer we are always overloaded just with a empty gooseneck trailer.
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Old 04-24-2013, 12:22 PM   #23
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Just came from a 3/4 to a 1 ton dually just prior to picking up our 36qbok. I'm glad I made the move because this thing is HEAVY and LONG. Our initial drive had us in 30-40mph crosswinds and I didn't even grip the steering wheel while cruising @ 65mph. I would go with the larger tow vehicle, for your sake, and the sake of others on the road. While these limit postings on the truck are more to cover the manufacturer it makes more sense to follow them in cases where liability could be claimed if an accident were to occur.

Stay safe and have fun. Life doesn't always have to be about pushing the limits.
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Old 04-24-2013, 01:00 PM   #24
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The way I have it figured a average 3/4 ton truck only has about 1000 lbs of available payload for pin weight or tongue weight on a trailer. So there fore you would never be able to pull much of anything. Gcwr of a truck is much less than the gawr. Where do they get payload figures from? The way I see it a as a farmer we are always overloaded just with a empty gooseneck trailer.
Precisely. And if the farm trucks you know of are like the ones I know of, they have spent a lot of time overloaded and many have lots of miles. The may I am familiar with have never had mechanical failures due to weight, either. Most farmers know how to place a load on a trailer and they know how to adjust their driving according to the load and conditions. That's what adds up to safe towing. Not just staying under what the sticker says.

Just to clarify, I'm not saying you should tow a 15,000 pound camper with a 3000 pound pin weight cross country full timing using a 3/4 ton truck. What I am saying is that in no way, shape, form, or fashion is the payload the maximum amount that a truck can actually carry and be safe. There are just way too many variables to even truly give an accurate number of what a truck can safely haul.
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Old 04-24-2013, 02:02 PM   #25
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Given that same newbie - couldn't we make the same argument that they're safeR staying within spec than sending them out in an overloaded situation?
I responded to this earlier and have reconsidered. I suppose you do have a point that, YES, a newbie would be safer with smaller load, but how far do you take that? If they have 2000 pounds of payload would they be safer with that amount than 2500? I'll go along with that. But wouldn't they be safer with 1500? 1000? So why give them the 2000 manufacturer number blindly? Why not reduce that? Is that the magic number? Wouldn't someone with no towing experience be safer driving a Prius to a cabin? I know I'm going to the extreme here, but I'm just trying to say that the number on the sticker is not the be all, end all, of a truck's capacity.
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Old 04-24-2013, 02:29 PM   #26
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This discussion (Forum) really needs a auto engineer who designs these trucks to weigh in on the cold hard facts about all this tow capability stuff!

If your out there, please reply! LOL



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Old 04-24-2013, 02:49 PM   #27
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This discussion (Forum) really needs a auto engineer who designs these trucks to weigh in on the cold hard facts about all this tow capability stuff!

If your out there, please reply! LOL
I agree!!! I'm very curious to see how they arrive at the numbers they get without knowing anything about the type of terrain, road conditions, driver experience, type of load(2000 pounds of liquid in the bed will be nothing like 2000 pounds of Sakrete), weather conditions, etc. that a person will be hauling in.
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Old 04-24-2013, 03:13 PM   #28
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Just to confuse the matter a bit more, I've heard the only difference between a F250 and F350 SRW is the size of the spring blocks. Same engine, brakes, frame etc. So if I added airbags to my F250, there should be no difference between what I can carry VS an F350.
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Old 04-24-2013, 03:20 PM   #29
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Just to confuse the matter a bit more, I've heard the only difference between a F250 and F350 SRW is the size of the spring blocks. Same engine, brakes, frame etc. So if I added airbags to my F250, there should be no difference between what I can carry VS an F350.
And chew on this concerning payload. The only thing limiting payload would be springs, axles, wheels and tires. Brakes aren't even part of the equation. If you don't think that's true, please explain how the brakes are sufficient to stop a trailer that weighs 4000 pounds with no brakes but somehow can only stop 2000ish (3/4 ton) that is loaded into the truck. Axles are clearly rated high enough to get another 1500 to 2000 pounds of payload on most trucks, as are the tires. Wheels should be able to hold at least as much as tires. The only thing that leaves that would limit most 3/4 ton trucks to a 10K GVWR would be the springs. Overloads or air-bags would solve that. Still wanna know where the GVWR number comes from. I think at least part of it, from research, is to meet registration requirements for certain states.
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Old 04-24-2013, 03:29 PM   #30
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And chew on this concerning payload. The only thing limiting payload would be springs, axles, wheels and tires. Brakes aren't even part of the equation. If you don't think that's true, please explain how the brakes are sufficient to stop a trailer that weighs 4000 pounds with no brakes but somehow can only stop 2000ish (3/4 ton) that is loaded into the truck. Axles are clearly rated high enough to get another 1500 to 2000 pounds of payload on most trucks, as are the tires. Wheels should be able to hold at least as much as tires. The only thing that leaves that would limit most 3/4 ton trucks to a 10K GVWR would be the springs. Overloads or air-bags would solve that. Still wanna know where the GVWR number comes from. I think at least part of it, from research, is to meet registration requirements for certain states.
So since we are talking hypothetical situations, what happens when the authorities determine you were overweight in a injury accident and then the attorneys get a hold of that info?
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Old 04-24-2013, 08:28 PM   #31
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fancy lock thingamajig for the tailgate

that shouldnt be more than a lb or 2 including the key compared to non locking tailgate. that is if we are talking about factory tailgate latch.
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Old 04-24-2013, 09:08 PM   #32
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Better get some more popping.......or whatever your preferred snack of choice is......

So question for everyone. As we make comparisons of ag and farm vehicles hauling hay, grain, implements, etc. and being overweight as compared to hauling a fifth wheel for recreational purposes, is this an apples to apples comparison? Is speed a factor that needs to be taken into consideration in relation to weight, braking, safety to the driver and passengers as well as to everyone else on the road with them? During planting/harvest I dont remember to many of these vehicles passing me at 55 mph or faster fully loaded (and yes i do agree that they haul what we would consider overweight all the time). But the DW does say I have a short term memory
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Old 04-24-2013, 09:13 PM   #33
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Better get some more popping.......or whatever your preferred snack of choice is......

So question for everyone. As we make comparisons of ag and farm vehicles hauling hay, grain, implements, etc. and being overweight as compared to hauling a fifth wheel for recreational purposes, is this an apples to apples comparison? Is speed a factor that needs to be taken into consideration in relation to weight, braking, safety to the driver and passengers as well as to everyone else on the road with them? During planting/harvest I dont remember to many of these vehicles passing me at 55 mph or faster fully loaded (and yes i do agree that they haul what we would consider overweight all the time). But the DW does say I have a short term memory
Or hauling "farm stuff" for thousands of miles!
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Old 04-24-2013, 09:22 PM   #34
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Staying within trucks specs vs. exceeding them - from thread hijack

Ok, I felt that the 36QBOK being pulled by a 3/4 ton vehicle had been hijacked (mostly be myself) to the point that it needs its own thread. Hopefully Brandon327 doesn't mind.

---

And, for the peanut gallery - yes, we know that you want popcorn.
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Old 04-24-2013, 09:47 PM   #35
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Like i mentioned in a previous post, most construction companies, around here, haul overloaded daily. Once in a while a statie will stop them, but usually they are ticketed for not having a cdl. One small company i used to work for still runs a 97 chevy 3500 drw 454, with a 12' flatbed with boxes, both full of tools, and typically a 40' gooseneck with concrete forms, 700lbs of steel stakes, and two 10K lb skid steers. Runs speed limit, never any major truck service needed. That's how i used to tow. After getting my first tt two years ago, i have learned i was terribly unsafe all those years. Yet, i never had a problem? Does that make what i did right or ok? probably not, but for people who have towed popups or the similar, and read weight ratings, to decide they know more than the guys who pull 90% of the time just doesn't make sense to me.

That is all, but i may post in this thread again.
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Old 04-24-2013, 10:05 PM   #36
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Door weights are not put there by Engineers rather by Lawyers!

Lawyers get paid to guarantee the manufacturer that they will not be exposed to the risk of litigation NOT damage!

The numbers on your door are set such that if you overload your truck by an acceptable amount (to be determined by the courts) that the courts would not see the manufacturer as having overstated the safe capabilities of the trucks various parts.

This explains why farmers and 100s if not 1000s of RV'rs have "gotten away" with overloading their trucks.

All things being equal if you do not exceed the door numbers "nothing bad will happen"(safe experienced driver, in a well serviced vehicle, in normal driving conditions)

More popcorn please!
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Old 04-24-2013, 10:30 PM   #37
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And what's funny is those with the big trucks that are not overloaded and are supposedly safe will pull the 5er 75mph-80mph on tires rated for 65mph max. with no towing experience. I'll take an experienced driver overloaded (as determined by the wt police here) over the one I stated above.
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Old 04-24-2013, 11:03 PM   #38
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Around my part of the world, the government says you cannot exceed any one of front GAWR, rear GAWR or GVWR. They also say that the tow vehicle must have 1HP per 150KG (331lbs) of GVW. I haven't seen that before anywhere. Ford also says the same thing in regards to GAWR and GVWR.

Not sure why anyone would think it doesn't matter if you exceed the stated maximums. You might get away with it in the short term, but it's not going to do the TV much good over time by overstressing brakes, chassis, suspension, etc. Heaven forbid, if you ever do cause an accident and you end up in court, if Judge Judy asks you if you are even one pound over the manufacturers stated maximums, you will be liable and have the book thrown at you. Same goes for your insurance company because they will be looking for anything they can pin on you.
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Old 04-24-2013, 11:14 PM   #39
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And what's funny is those with the big trucks that are not overloaded and are supposedly safe will pull the 5er 75mph-80mph on tires rated for 65mph max. with no towing experience. I'll take an experienced driver overloaded (as determined by the wt police here) over the one I stated above.
OldCoot - you know very well that's an unfair generalization. I have a "big truck" and vehemently adhere to 60-65 mph max speed even if the posted speed limit is higher.
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Old 04-24-2013, 11:15 PM   #40
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Around my part of the world, the government says you cannot exceed any one of front GAWR, rear GAWR or GVWR. They also say that the tow vehicle must have 1HP per 150KG (331lbs) of GVW. I haven't seen that before anywhere. Ford also says the same thing in regards to GAWR and GVWR.

Not sure why anyone would think it doesn't matter if you exceed the stated maximums. You might get away with it in the short term, but it's not going to do the TV much good over time by overstressing brakes, chassis, suspension, etc. Heaven forbid, if you ever do cause an accident and you end up in court, if Judge Judy asks you if you are even one pound over the manufacturers stated maximums, you will be liable and have the book thrown at you. Same goes for your insurance company because they will be looking for anything they can pin on you.

And without wt tickets, how are they going to prove you were overloaded or that you caused the accident because of being overloaded? Just asking a question.
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