Sway Problems with Windjammer 2618

[OldCoot]

Originally Posted by caper

What type tires are on the SUV. You might want to upgrade to LT's if the tires are P. The side walls of the P tires could be causing some of the sway.

From personal experience, the P tires are also definitely contributing to the sway. The sidewalls are too soft for towing anything bigger than a small utility trailer or small pop up. Get 4 LT tires LR D at minimum.

[garbonz]

Another emperical rule of thumb and an overall check on the system is to measure the vehicle rear bumper drop without the WDH bars on and the front bumper raise (both compared to the unloaded height). After the hitch is on and adjusted, then the front bumper should be lower than level and the rear bumper should be higher than when loaded (showing that there is weight being transferred to the front). This should verify that the WDH is doing it's job correctly.

For example:
Rear Bumper

unloaded 22inchs
loaded no WDbars 19inches
WDH Bars on 20inches

Front bumper

unloaded 22inches
loaded no WD bars 23inches
WDH bars on 21inches

Hopefully not to confusing. AND the tire recommendations and tongue weight still are good points. AND good sway control helps, but is not a substitute for proper set up

[garbonz]

Or get a truck and 5er and don't worry about all this. LOL

[Texbahrs]

I have checked online and with local tire dealers and can't find LT tires to fit my 20 inch wheels. I'm not going to change my rims to 16 or 17 inches as that would through off my vehicle's computer not to mention costing about $2,000 for the purchase and installation of four new rims and tires.

[jgroff]

Originally Posted by Texbahrs

I have checked online and with local tire dealers and can't find LT tires to fit my 20 inch wheels. I'm not going to change my rims to 16 or 17 inches as that would through off my vehicle's computer not to mention costing about $2,000 for the purchase and installation of four new rims and tires.

if you are serious about looking for tires

try looking for a nitto terra grappler or anything in this size. michelin and bf Goodrich make tire this size lt285/55/20.

its a little taller and wider but wont mess up your computer

[Old Bones]

Originally Posted by Texbahrs

I have checked online and with local tire dealers and can't find LT tires to fit my 20 inch wheels. I'm not going to change my rims to 16 or 17 inches as that would through off my vehicle's computer not to mention costing about $2,000 for the purchase and installation of four new rims and tires.

I have 20" wheels on our Ram 1500 and will be going with Nitto Dura Grapplers. About the the only 20" tire I can get here with a heavy sidewall.

[HONDAMAN174]

Yes...I see that there are few LT tires for your size. I do see a few some XL (extra load) with 117 rating. That will be the stiffest you can get for you truck and rated at 2568 lbs per tire at max inflate. This is assuming that you have a 1500 subie. All these tires are on tire rack's website. I do think that there are some good choices.

[elind]

Originally Posted by garbonz

Another emperical rule of thumb and an overall check on the system is to measure the vehicle rear bumper drop without the WDH bars on and the front bumper raise (both compared to the unloaded height). After the hitch is on and adjusted, then the front bumper should be lower than level and the rear bumper should be higher than when loaded (showing that there is weight being transferred to the front). This should verify that the WDH is doing it's job correctly.

For example:
Rear Bumper

unloaded 22inchs
loaded no WDbars 19inches
WDH Bars on 20inches

Front bumper

unloaded 22inches
loaded no WD bars 23inches
WDH bars on 21inches

Hopefully not to confusing. AND the tire recommendations and tongue weight still are good points. AND good sway control helps, but is not a substitute for proper set up

x2

[Charles Firth]

Maybe I have missed something here, but a Windjammer in a great TT. It sounds like you purchased it from a dealer and not an individual, not sure if the hitch was dealer installed or not. I would take that sucker back to the dealer and asked him to take a ride and get a "professional Opinion " and hear what they have to say and take your action from there. There is a ton of knowledge and experience on this site all of the responses are probably right on the money. However after a while you have to avoid the mode of " Lets Try This " these modifications are not inexpensive. Maybe it a trailer issue, axles not aligned properly it was built on the fifth Friday of the month or whatever, we all feel your pain. I just purchased a Windjammer back in December and have only towed it to the storage lot. I hope I don't have these troubles. Good luck, get that TT fixed and relax. Chuck in Va

[youroo]

This post is a very good reason why members should supply (ALL Info) up front! This TV was clearly designed NOT to be a TV. The cost to convert these type of vehicles to be (Tow Package) ready is $$$,thus why the Mfg.has (Pages of Options for Towing and Heavy Duty on top of that)! Just like a Filter (Pay now or Pay later)! Youroo!!

[avolnek]

Originally Posted by Texbahrs

I have checked online and with local tire dealers and can't find LT tires to fit my 20 inch wheels. I'm not going to change my rims to 16 or 17 inches as that would through off my vehicle's computer not to mention costing about $2,000 for the purchase and installation of four new rims and tires.

The wheels will not be what throws the speedometer off. The outer diameter of the tire is what will affect the speedo.

There are 10 ply tires that will fit 20" rims as other have mentioned here. The nittos are great tires but will be a little bit wider and taller than your current set. $2,000 for my families safety would be no question in my mind. I understand everyone's financial situation is different but I don't feel that I would be doing my due diligence if I didn't reiterate that you SHOULD be looking at coming up with a way for 10 ply E rated tires on that tow vehicle. You are going to have a fairly heavy camper and obviously plenty of passengers aboard!

Something to look into is trying to trade someone with a similar vehicle to yours with the smaller wheels if you don't want over sized tires. If you are in tight with your dealership I am wiling to bet if you bought tires from them for smaller wheels they would swap a set off of a used one on their lot of if they have one for the 20's you have for nothing!


If you decide to run the P rated tires, PLEASE keep a close eye on them and keep them aired up to their max inflation per the sidewall!


Just my opinions, but safety is always first!

[Texbahrs]

To follow up on this issue I raised a few weeks ago, I am installing LT tires on my TV (2011 Suburban). I am replacing the Bridgestone Duelers P 275/55R/20 with Goodyear Wrangler SR-A LT 265/60R/20. The wranglers are .61 inches greater in diameter than the current tires. I haven't been able to find anyone to reset the speedometer and other computer settings to reflect the different tire sizes. I'm not sure the importance of doing this since the difference is so minimal. For example, 60 mph with the old tires translates to 61.15 mph with the new ones. My big concern is what impact on the tire rims will the increase in psi have (40 psi to 80 psi). Both my Chevy dealer and Goodyear dealer tell me it's not a problem. The Goodyear dealer, however, recommends putting no more than 65 psi in the new tires.

As before, I welcome any and all comments/suggestions.

[avolnek]

I don't feel you should have any issue filling your tires up to 80 psi with the stock rims. I have yet to see anyone run into any trouble with it. You most likely will not need to go to the full 80 psi in the tires anyways.

80 psi on E rated tires is typically the max pressure and is designed to run at that when the max weight it applied to the tire. If you have a 3,000 pound max rating on the tire and are only seeing 1500 pounds on that tire then there is no need to fill to 80 psi in the tire.

I am trying to find a chart to help with this concept, but am unable to find one currently.

If you over inflate a tire the tread will actually balloon out in the center of the tread and wear the center portion out faster than the shoulders. If you under inflate a tire then the shoulders will typically wear faster and develop a cupping patter (heel toe).

[HONDAMAN174]

I have always been a believer of going wider (285) vs going more narrow. But then again- it's your truck and wallet to think about. I did find some Hankook 285/55r20 with an e load rating at discount for 281 each. Granted my heart skipped when I saw the price but these style of tires also don't wear out in 30k miles.

[Great Laker]

I was advised by my GM dealer and tire dealer my 18" factory rims would be fine at higher pressure. I personally would never need to inflate to 80psi. I tow at 60 and has not set my tpms light yet. Not sure if the tire dealer reprogrammed, but i thought it would give me a warning at that psi. I have been as high as 65 lbs with no issue. I set them at 35 lbs for daily driving and they ride better than my P rated Bridgestones. I also experienced the same issues on my return trip from the dealer. I advise you read the directions for adjusting your hitch and do it yourself as mine was improperly set up from the dealer. After adjusting the hitch and tires i was much more comfortable and tows well.

[kandl]

Originally Posted by Texbahrs

As before, I welcome any and all comments/suggestions.

Jack and Laurel,

Hope you didn't just trash a good set of Duelers. I state that because I don't subscribe to the generalized notion that a P-Metric (passenger) rated tire is the significant contributor to TT handling issues. We're tugging a TT that is comparable to yours and have done so with two different P-Metric 20-inch tires and we've not experienced any issues that I would attribute to excessive sidewall flex. A proper tongue weight, TT loading and good sway control are the secret ingredients that will trump the stiffness of the sidewalls on the TV. Nevertheless, hope you get it sorted out to your satisfaction and above all... safe travels.

[Texbahrs]

I decided to be safe rather than sorry. Almost everyone I talked to, on this forum and others, recommended I switch to LT tires to control my sway problems. I did this only after making sure my tongue weight was about 12% of the TT weight and my WDH was adjusted properly. These reduced the sway but didn't eliminate it. I haven't had a chance to take the camper out since installing the new tires but will do so this next weekend.

Now, do you know anyone who wants a nice set of Duelers?

[Big Bad Allis]

Originally Posted by Texbahrs

I decided to be safe rather than sorry. Almost everyone I talked to, on this forum and others, recommended I switch to LT tires to control my sway problems. I did this only after making sure my tongue weight was about 12% of the TT weight and my WDH was adjusted properly. These reduced the sway but didn't eliminate it. I haven't had a chance to take the camper out since installing the new tires but will do so this next weekend.

Now, do you know anyone who wants a nice set of Duelers?

You made a good move for safety. The LT tires will do a better job, offer better safety and piece of mind

[avolnek]

Originally Posted by kandl

Jack and Laurel,

Hope you didn't just trash a good set of Duelers. I state that because I don't subscribe to the generalized notion that a P-Metric (passenger) rated tire is the significant contributor to TT handling issues. We're tugging a TT that is comparable to yours and have done so with two different P-Metric 20-inch tires and we've not experienced any issues that I would attribute to excessive sidewall flex. A proper tongue weight, TT loading and good sway control are the secret ingredients that will trump the stiffness of the sidewalls on the TV. Nevertheless, hope you get it sorted out to your satisfaction and above all... safe travels.

It is a generalized notion that P rated tires are a contributor to sway because it is a fact! The side walls of of P rated tires are not made to withstand the rigors of heavy hauling and towing. Especially when you are talking about low profile tires on 20" rims you will be even more prone to sway caused by the tires itself.

I feel the 2 biggest contributors of sway would be improper loading of the trailer and then tires. Tires being a handful of things really though, whether it is an underrated tire or tires that are over or under pressured or maybe out of balance.

To me a sway control hitch (minus a few the truly prevent sway and ones that actively fight to center the trailer) are a band aid to sway. A properly loaded trailer and properly equipped tow vehicle will handle fine. A sway control hitch will help control it if it sway is ever encountered.

[Great Laker]

Good luck on your trial run with your new tires. I think you will notice an immediate difference. You may need to play around with the tire psi.