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Old 07-22-2019, 01:41 PM   #1
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That's it. I'm done messing about..

I thought I was in a pretty decent place with how my lifted Excursion towed my Rockwood 8329ss. I would get the occasional wobble if a truck passed me in a crosswind situation, but for the most part I was ok with the performance of my Reese Dual Cam WDH (or at least I thought I was. Read on.)

I originally bought the Reese for my Roo, and it was exactly the perfect hitch for that combination. Rock-solid towing. So I thought it was the way to go with the new, much longer/heavier camper. Again, it worked ok-ish, but I never felt 100% relaxed when towing.

Fast forward to this last weekend. I recently had the Excursion's lift dropped (it's getting hard on these old knees to get in and out of it) from 8" to 4", and replaced the tires with 35" Toyo AT2s instead of the old 37" Toyo M/T. This has totally changed how my truck tows my camper and the results are pure evil.

Now, I had an issue with my setup, and I corrected that at a truck stop on the way to the campground. That pretty much solved the sudden lane departures for no particular reason when running down the road all by myself. But wind, passing truck and (God save me...) 'passing trucks in the wind' gave me 3 or 4 real bouts of white knuckles. I never once could relax, to the point that my right hand kept going numb from the grip I had to maintain on the wheel. I felt like I was no longer steering, and merely offering the truck my suggestions on what side of the road I would prefer to wreck on. Ask the people at the "mini-Rally" what condition I was in when I rolled in. My first words were "I need a drink, NOW!"

We camped only 2 hours away, and I told Miss Kelly that there was NO WAY in any 7 hells she cared to name that I was gonna tow that mess to Goshen like that. Further adjustments at the campground made it better. But never, not once, was I ever able to relax. I was a nervous wreck and physically spent by the time we got home.

I think the 8329ss has must too high 'moments of inertia' for the Dual cam to control reliably. Just sitting there in the drive way with it hitched up, I can give the ball a shove sideways with my foot and watch as everything oscillates a few times before it decays to a stop. And that was with the dual-cam still locked up. Add wind or a passing truck and now you have what us engineers call "under-damped positive feedback in a high gain environment" i.e. barely controllable oscillations.

So I am done. I am chucking the Reese in the garbage (craigslist) and I'm gonna get me either a Hensley or Pro-Pride 3P. I'm talking to a member here on his used Hensley, but I think like the pro-pride better. I look back and think if, during one of the severe sway episodes, I was not good enough or lucky enough to catch it, the result would have made the $3K the Pro-pride costs look like pocket change.

Tim
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Old 07-22-2019, 01:49 PM   #2
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Best of luck finding the 'right' towing set-up.
Just goes to show how TV changes really can adversely change the towing experience.

Keep us posted (I know you will) on the progress and the results.
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Old 07-22-2019, 01:49 PM   #3
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Sounds like you need an anti-sway bar more than anything. Never had an issue with wind or or truck with ours. I donít know if it can be added to the Reese.
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Old 07-22-2019, 02:00 PM   #4
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Sounds like you need an anti-sway bar more than anything. Never had an issue with wind or or truck with ours. I donít know if it can be added to the Reese.
The Reese dual cam is anti-sway. Much more so than a friction sway bar. With that said, its not enough for a 35 foot, 10K bumper pull.

Tim
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Old 07-22-2019, 02:00 PM   #5
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Sounds like you need an anti-sway bar more than anything. Never had an issue with wind or or truck with ours. I donít know if it can be added to the Reese.
the reese strait line dual cam has integrated sway...

If you have movement just by pushing with your foot, there is something wrong in your setup, id be looking at the weight rating of the bars (might be too small since you went from the roo to the rockwood) also verifying the cams are sitting properly in the riders. I use my reese on several size trailers up to a 36ft enclosed race trailer and have never seen it do that when set properly.
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Old 07-22-2019, 02:06 PM   #6
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So you've deemed the hitch worthless but have not rolled it over a scale with your new suspension set up on the Excursion?

Before spending $$$ on a new hitch, it would be worth the hour of your time and $10 to start fresh with the existing hitch and weigh it as you set it up.

On other thought is that if you can push it in your driveway and everything oscillates, what's your TV's tire pressure set at and how old are the rear shocks. If things are moving that loosely, it may be time for replacing the shocks to better dampen some of the road conditions.

Overall, it seems like if the set up worked ok with an 8" lift, refreshing the settings of the hitch and verifying the axle weights would help plant the tow vehicle on the road and get some of the white out of your knuckles.
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Old 07-22-2019, 02:11 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Cost4133 View Post
the reese strait line dual cam has integrated sway...

If you have movement just by pushing with your foot, there is something wrong in your setup, id be looking at the weight rating of the bars (might be too small since you went from the roo to the rockwood) also verifying the cams are sitting properly in the riders. I use my reese on several size trailers up to a 36ft enclosed race trailer and have never seen it do that when set properly.
That was the issue I corrected at the truck stop. One cam was not fully seated in the notch. I corrected that, with noticeable improvement., but still not where I want to be.

The movement I saw was not any movement in the hitch itself, but just in the whole truck/trailer combo. There's nothing loose per se...

Tim
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Old 07-22-2019, 02:20 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by clarkbre View Post
So you've deemed the hitch worthless but have not rolled it over a scale with your new suspension set up on the Excursion?

Before spending $$$ on a new hitch, it would be worth the hour of your time and $10 to start fresh with the existing hitch and weigh it as you set it up.

On other thought is that if you can push it in your driveway and everything oscillates, what's your TV's tire pressure set at and how old are the rear shocks. If things are moving that loosely, it may be time for replacing the shocks to better dampen some of the road conditions.

Overall, it seems like if the set up worked ok with an 8" lift, refreshing the settings of the hitch and verifying the axle weights would help plant the tow vehicle on the road and get some of the white out of your knuckles.
Read above. It was never confidence inspiring. At least not like it was on the lighter, shorter Roo. I lived with it because I thought "this is as good as it gets" without throwing cubic dollars at it (I.e a Hensley or ProPride). It was decent (or OK) about 95% of the time, but there were times where it would really give you a hell of a ride.

I'm at the point in my life (financially) that I want that last 5%. The Reese is a hell of a good hitch, and I will make sure it goes to a good home, but like I said before, compared to a 24', 5500# camper and this 35 foot, 10K behemoth I have now is an order of magnitude greater a towing challenge. And I don't think any kind of standard ball WDH sway control is up to the task. I bet I could weld up a solid tube where a friction swaybar goes, and it would still move when I kick the hitch. Too large of forces in play, too small of angles/distances to control them.

Tim

p.s shock are new. Good ones. Fox 2.0's all around. Springs are all 4 new as well. I'm using a BDS lift, and they ain't cheap. My point is I don't skimp on this truck, time I stop skimping on the hitch.
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Old 07-22-2019, 03:43 PM   #9
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.....p.s shock are new. Good ones. Fox 2.0's all around. Springs are all 4 new as well. I'm using a BDS lift, and they ain't cheap. My point is I don't skimp on this truck, time I stop skimping on the hitch.
No offence, but maybe it's just not enough tow vehicle to handle the new, bigger trailer.

Trailer specs:
  • GVWR: 11,082
  • Dry hitch weight: 1,082 (Actual is likely closer to 1300+)
  • Overall length: 34'11"

Ford Excursion -2005:
  • Max tow rating: 11,000 (4x4 equipped with a diesel engine or V10 w/ 4.30)
  • Wheelbase: 137"
  • Payload: Up to 1,950 minus accessories and weight of the lift, wheels/tires

In reality, for safety reasons, most people on this forum wouldn't recommend towing a trailer more than about 30' & 7500 pounds with a 1/2 ton, crewcab/shortbed truck. The modern F150 with a CC and 5.5' bed has a wheelbase of 145".

While your Excursion has a lot of weight, the shorter 137" wheelbase and an added 4" lift, the Excursion may be beyond its limits for your current trailer. Towing a 34'11" trailer that can weigh right up to the tow limits of your vehicle would surely have an affect on the handling of the vehicle and towing characteristics.
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Old 07-22-2019, 03:50 PM   #10
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I wouldn't tow anything with a modified truck. Any lift kit no matter how big or small has to have huge effects on a vehicles abilities. May look cool but doesn't do anything but hurt capabilities in my humble opinion.
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Old 07-22-2019, 03:52 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by clarkbre View Post
No offence, but maybe it's just not enough tow vehicle to handle the new, bigger trailer.

Trailer specs:
  • GVWR: 11,082
  • Dry hitch weight: 1,082 (Actual is likely closer to 1300+)
  • Overall length: 34'11"

Ford Excursion -2005:
  • Max tow rating: 11,000 (4x4 equipped with a diesel engine or V10 w/ 4.30)
  • Wheelbase: 137"
  • Payload: Up to 1,950 minus accessories and weight of the lift, wheels/tires

In reality, for safety reasons, most people on this forum wouldn't recommend towing a trailer more than about 30' & 7500 pounds with a 1/2 ton, crewcab/shortbed truck. The modern F150 with a CC and 5.5' bed has a wheelbase of 145".

While your Excursion has a lot of weight, the shorter 137" wheelbase and an added 4" lift, the Excursion may be beyond its limits for your current trailer. Towing a 34'11" trailer that can weigh right up to the tow limits of your vehicle would surely have an affect on the handling of the vehicle and towing characteristics.

I wish I could see Cowracer's face when he reads this. it will be either or
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Old 07-22-2019, 05:07 PM   #12
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I wish I could see Cowracer's face when he reads this. it will be either or
Everyone is entitled to their opinions. I ain't mad. It's not like I need anyone's permission, ya know...

It's all good stuff to think about.

Tim
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Old 07-22-2019, 06:13 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Cowracer View Post
I thought I was in a pretty decent place with how my lifted Excursion towed my Rockwood 8329ss. I would get the occasional wobble if a truck passed me in a crosswind situation, but for the most part I was ok with the performance of my Reese Dual Cam WDH (or at least I thought I was. Read on.)

I originally bought the Reese for my Roo, and it was exactly the perfect hitch for that combination. Rock-solid towing. So I thought it was the way to go with the new, much longer/heavier camper. Again, it worked ok-ish, but I never felt 100% relaxed when towing.

Fast forward to this last weekend. I recently had the Excursion's lift dropped (it's getting hard on these old knees to get in and out of it) from 8" to 4", and replaced the tires with 35" Toyo AT2s instead of the old 37" Toyo M/T. This has totally changed how my truck tows my camper and the results are pure evil.

Now, I had an issue with my setup, and I corrected that at a truck stop on the way to the campground. That pretty much solved the sudden lane departures for no particular reason when running down the road all by myself. But wind, passing truck and (God save me...) 'passing trucks in the wind' gave me 3 or 4 real bouts of white knuckles. I never once could relax, to the point that my right hand kept going numb from the grip I had to maintain on the wheel. I felt like I was no longer steering, and merely offering the truck my suggestions on what side of the road I would prefer to wreck on. Ask the people at the "mini-Rally" what condition I was in when I rolled in. My first words were "I need a drink, NOW!"

We camped only 2 hours away, and I told Miss Kelly that there was NO WAY in any 7 hells she cared to name that I was gonna tow that mess to Goshen like that. Further adjustments at the campground made it better. But never, not once, was I ever able to relax. I was a nervous wreck and physically spent by the time we got home.

I think the 8329ss has must too high 'moments of inertia' for the Dual cam to control reliably. Just sitting there in the drive way with it hitched up, I can give the ball a shove sideways with my foot and watch as everything oscillates a few times before it decays to a stop. And that was with the dual-cam still locked up. Add wind or a passing truck and now you have what us engineers call "under-damped positive feedback in a high gain environment" i.e. barely controllable oscillations.

So I am done. I am chucking the Reese in the garbage (craigslist) and I'm gonna get me either a Hensley or Pro-Pride 3P. I'm talking to a member here on his used Hensley, but I think like the pro-pride better. I look back and think if, during one of the severe sway episodes, I was not good enough or lucky enough to catch it, the result would have made the $3K the Pro-pride costs look like pocket change.

Tim
I used a Hensley for nearly twenty years, no sway control, just no sway period. When I switched to the cedar creek I needed a fifth wheel hitch so I had the best why not stay with it, I was able to trade in my twenty year old hitch toward the new one and got my money back for what I originally paid for it, I donít know about the propride but Iíd never tow another bumper pull without a Hensley. My last one was a thirty foot surveyor and I towed it with a VW Touareg. Good luck Iíll see you in a couple of weeks.
.
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Old 07-22-2019, 06:59 PM   #14
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I used a Hensley for nearly twenty years, no sway control, just no sway period. When I switched to the cedar creek I needed a fifth wheel hitch so I had the best why not stay with it, I was able to trade in my twenty year old hitch toward the new one and got my money back for what I originally paid for it, I donít know about the propride but Iíd never tow another bumper pull without a Hensley. My last one was a thirty foot surveyor and I towed it with a VW Touareg. Good luck Iíll see you in a couple of weeks.
.
Based on the below video (1:57), I am thoroughly convinced my F250 needs to be traded for a 1995 Dodge Intrepid. Nothing says "tow vehicle" like a front wheel drive unibody sedan tugging a triple axle Airstream. I'll let you know how the engine braking goes....if I make it down the mountain!

Hensley Hitch Video

"Hensley....Built to blow your tranny!"
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Old 07-22-2019, 10:16 PM   #15
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There's absolutely NO truth in this statement. I have a 2014 Salem travel trailer that's 38' long and 11500lbs heavy when loaded. We tow it with a 2014 F250 Superduty Lariat 6.7. We have been using a Reese straight line hitch with dual cam sway control and it's solid in all conditions.. Windy, truck traffic.. Whatever.
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The Reese dual cam is anti-sway. Much more so than a friction sway bar. With that said, its not enough for a 35 foot, 10K bumper pull.

Tim
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Old 07-23-2019, 03:03 AM   #16
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We had a 26 ft Surveyor, pulled it with a 3/4 gas truck, double cab, 8 ft bed. Used a Equalizer 2 hitch. No issues. Went to a Vcross 32 ft. 3 slides dry weight of 9000 pounds used same hitch. Went to Tadpole Rally. 80 miles from home. Got on I-75 and oh my god, we are going to die.
Made it to Rally, took 5 minutes to pry hands off of steering wheel. Called where we bought camper and asked if they we trying to kill us. One way home stopped and traded in our e2 for a Blue Ox. No more issues, once everything was set up. I agree with above. You need a heavy duty hitch.
Sorry for dragging this out.
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Old 07-23-2019, 06:07 AM   #17
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That was the issue I corrected at the truck stop. One cam was not fully seated in the notch. I corrected that, with noticeable improvement., but still not where I want to be.

The movement I saw was not any movement in the hitch itself, but just in the whole truck/trailer combo. There's nothing loose per se...

Tim

If the whole thing is moving like that, you really need to look at the excursion setup. I used to have an 04 that I towed my 36' trailer with and didn't have issue at the end. But excursions are known for weak rear suspension (I ended up with F250 springs) and wheels that are too narrow for tires. In addition to laughable rear sway bar. I know you did lift and tires, but it may not be a good setup for towing.
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Old 07-23-2019, 08:26 AM   #18
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I appreciate the comments guys. I really do. But I am going to try to put this in a way that don't make me come off like a jerk. (I will most likely fail...)

I'm happy everyone has their own favorite hitch setup that works well for them. I understand some people think my lift kit negatively impacts my towing. I have no data to prove you wrong. I always appreciate hearing another point of view, even if I disagree.

But...

I am not asking for advise or critiques of my truck, or the things I have done to it. I am simply telling a story about the final straw that led me to make a decision. I have been thinking about a hensley or ProPride from the first time I pulled this beast with my truck. As I have already said... I never got truly comfortable with this setup. I was hoping the new shorter lift would make things better, to where I didn't need to fork out the cash for one, but it didn't

Yeah. I could do a lot of things that have been suggested. I could put my truck back on stock suspension. I could run different tires. I could buy any number of cheaper hitches, or I could get a new truck, and I might (might!) get to were I am truly comfortable pulling the 8329 without a ProPride. I'm sure there is a formula that would work. I just don't know how much experimentation I'd have to do to find it. Or, I can buy a ProPride, and know that I'm good. And if it does not work as expected, I can send it back and get my $$$ back. I don't get that guarantee with anything else.

Am I using that hitch to mask or correct for other problems? Probably. But if it works, then it works, right? Yeah, its a big chunk of change to shell out, but as I told Mountaindream in a text... Let me wad this whole unit up at highway speeds and then ask me how much I would have paid to prevent it. God help me if I hurt somebody in the process. I don't think I could bear it. It really makes 3 grand look like chicken feed.

Thanks for all the differing viewpoints. None of you are really wrong, but this is the course I have chosen.

Tim
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Old 07-23-2019, 01:56 PM   #19
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Well said CR
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Old 07-23-2019, 02:28 PM   #20
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As a FWIW....


I tow with a Propride. I picked it over the Hensley primarily based on a post on the Airstream forum. Guy there had both. He gave a point by point comparison of the good/bad points on each hitch. My take is that, at least at the time of his comparison, the Propride was built better. Stonger in a couple of important spots, cleaner welds, etc.

Having used it for 2+ years now, I really like the WD jacks that are on the Propride. I have marked the inside post on the jack for the proper pressure for my setup, so it is really easy to raise to the proper spot every time.
One hint. When hooking up, make sure the WD bars are completely loose. That allows the hitch head to conform to the angle on the stinger... If it seizes while hooking - adjust the WD, I find a twist or two and a shove on the hitch often has it finish sliding in.
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