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06-05-2013, 11:10 AM
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#101
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Junior Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 14
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Everyone catch that integrity lesson??? Let's hope religion or politics isn't the next soap box. Great discussion!! We should keep it on the topic and not get personal or preachy.
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06-05-2013, 11:28 AM
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#102
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Rio Grande Valley Texas
Posts: 362
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Well the problem is when you put others in danger. A trailer that's too heavy in a lighter duty truck is a disaster waiting to happen.
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__________________________________
Ruben Zamora
2007 Silverado 2500HD 4x4 Dmax/Allison, 4" Exhaust-no cat-no muffler
2012 Palomino Puma 23FB
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06-05-2013, 11:35 AM
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#103
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 324
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This has been, by far, the most civil 1/2 ton + fiver discussion I have ever seen on either forum.
Good job guys!
Bill
__________________
2009 Flagstaff 8528 RKSS
2019 GMC 2500 HD Diesel
Pullrite Superglide 14K
"I've got a mind like a steele.. a......a steele......um.....uh...... what's that thing called again?
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06-05-2013, 11:43 AM
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#104
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Phat Phrog Stunt Team
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Iowa
Posts: 34,507
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fivecodys
This has been, by far, the most civil 1/2 ton + fiver discussion I have ever seen on either forum.
Good job guys!
Bill
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X2
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06-05-2013, 11:43 AM
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#105
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Mod free 5er
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Concord, NC
Posts: 24,702
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RubenZ
Well the problem is when you put others in danger. A trailer that's too heavy in a lighter duty truck is a disaster waiting to happen.
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So you need to set the parameters as to what is dangerous. 5# over the lawyer's sticker, 10#, 100#, 200? Where is the danger, truck frame breaking? Let's establish what the danger is to others by disregarding a lawyer sticker.
Everyone, including owners of the big trucks, needs to be cognizant that when pulling any rv or driving an rv that they cannot stop like a regular vehicle and should drive accordingly trying to anticipate any situation that would require stopping. In my opinion those pulling or driving an rv 75+ are the ones putting others in danger more than someone 300# over a lawyer sticker. JMO.
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06-05-2013, 11:57 AM
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#106
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Senior Moment
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Weatherford, TX
Posts: 178
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OldCoot
So you need to set the parameters as to what is dangerous. 5# over the lawyer's sticker, 10#, 100#, 200? Where is the danger, truck frame breaking? Let's establish what the danger is to others by disregarding a lawyer sticker.
Everyone, including owners of the big trucks, needs to be cognizant that when pulling any rv or driving an rv that they cannot stop like a regular vehicle and should drive accordingly trying to anticipate any situation that would require stopping. In my opinion those pulling or driving an rv 75+ are the ones putting others in danger more than someone 300# over a lawyer sticker. JMO.
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Agreed..
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06-05-2013, 12:01 PM
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#107
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Resident Masshole
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Southeastern MA
Posts: 433
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OldCoot
So you need to set the parameters as to what is dangerous. 5# over the lawyer's sticker, 10#, 100#, 200? Where is the danger, truck frame breaking? Let's establish what the danger is to others by disregarding a lawyer sticker.
Everyone, including owners of the big trucks, needs to be cognizant that when pulling any rv or driving an rv that they cannot stop like a regular vehicle and should drive accordingly trying to anticipate any situation that would require stopping. In my opinion those pulling or driving an rv 75+ are the ones putting others in danger more than someone 300# over a lawyer sticker. JMO.
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x3
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06-05-2013, 12:10 PM
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#108
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 684
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Well put OldCoot. It just plain amazes me how many posts I read that say "It hauled fine at 75 etc". Dangerous, plain dangerous. Especially those running with tires not rated at that speed. A blowout at that speed will be a bloody disaster.
I also agree the discussion has definitely went well thus far, we just need more rv.net overlords here...
__________________
2015 F-350 SRW 6.7 PSD
2014 Crusader 295RST
1 Fantastic DW
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1 Beagle that will be missed (RIP Zeus)
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06-05-2013, 12:32 PM
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#109
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 3,249
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Quote:
Originally Posted by herk7769
Personally, I don't want to be the "Poster Child;" be my guest.
Our local police set up a weight check station on a local road and was pulling over every truck and trailer that went by. I did see two lawn service trailers in the lot, but no travel trailers.
Integrity means coming to a full stop at a stop sign even when no one is looking and there is no traffic; JUST BECAUSE IT IS RIGHT.
NOT because you will be caught.
Integrity can not be taught; you either have it or you don't.
It was a lesson the military had to learn the hard way.
The TQM initiative failed because of it.
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Herk,
I always appreciate your insight, but I have to ask for clarification here. Surely you aren't meaning to equate legality with integrity. If that is the case we could discuss Nazi Germany or Communist China. I'd also like to point out that, to my knowledge, there is no federal law requiring motorists to abide by a light truck's published ratings. In some areas this may be the case, but one might be legal in one state or city and illegal in the next. I happen to think it is "unfair", for lack of a better word, to judge one's integrity by whether or not one is able to follow 100% to a tee the convoluted web of laws one might encounter when traveling. This speaks not only to weight but also length, speed, and....etc. I do agree that a person with integrity will attempt to obey laws as long as there is no objection of conscience. But I find it a stretch to apply that same litmus test to a sticker on the door of a truck that assumes a host of unknown values to be able to arrive at it's published rating in the first place.
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06-05-2013, 12:35 PM
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#110
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 3,249
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OldCoot
So you need to set the parameters as to what is dangerous. 5# over the lawyer's sticker, 10#, 100#, 200? Where is the danger, truck frame breaking? Let's establish what the danger is to others by disregarding a lawyer sticker.
Everyone, including owners of the big trucks, needs to be cognizant that when pulling any rv or driving an rv that they cannot stop like a regular vehicle and should drive accordingly trying to anticipate any situation that would require stopping. In my opinion those pulling or driving an rv 75+ are the ones putting others in danger more than someone 300# over a lawyer sticker. JMO.
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I agree. I'd much rather be on the road with someone dragging their RV with a 500# overloaded truck at 60 as opposed to one running 500# under at 70.
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06-05-2013, 01:05 PM
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#111
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 409
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dustman_stx
I agree. I'd much rather be on the road with someone dragging their RV with a 500# overloaded truck at 60 as opposed to one running 500# under at 70.
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What about someone that is over and running 75? I just wanted to post something because some said earlier that we should have our trucks in our siggy and yes I've been known to run 75 when the time called for it to be safer than running 65. He!! I've been over 85 loaded.
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2005 Ram 5.9 AT SB QC (Retired)
2010 Ram 6.7 G56 QC CC Aluminum flat/Leveled (Sold)
2008 Nitro Z9 towed by a 2015 Sanibel 3601 towed by a 2013 Ram 3500 SRW CCSB Cummins
2006 EZ GO 6" lift
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06-05-2013, 01:07 PM
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#112
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Mod free 5er
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Concord, NC
Posts: 24,702
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Quote:
Originally Posted by herk7769
...Integrity can not be taught; you either have it or you don't...
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Have to disagree with this Lou, I believe integrity is taught by your parents and their setting the example and the individual then makes the decision to either be a person of integrity or something else.
Otherwise, I agree with everything you stated. As for the TQM, we saw it fail a lot when dealing with some suppliers to Lockheed Martin. That was one of my tasks to visit and audit suppliers QA systems giving them only a weeks notice. Not enough time to "fix the records". They soon found out what a major hit in the purse it was when they lost their integrity and were left with 1/2-1 million in product not suitable for shipping due to 'doctored records'.
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06-05-2013, 01:12 PM
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#113
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Mod free 5er
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Concord, NC
Posts: 24,702
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Quote:
Originally Posted by transamz9
What about someone that is over and running 75? I just wanted to post something because some said earlier that we should have our trucks in our siggy and yes I've been known to run 75 when the time called for it to be safer than running 65. He!! I've been over 85 loaded.
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Don't know of anytime towing/driving an rv when it is safer at 75 or over 85 than it is at 60-65. Over 70 is questionable, over 85 is insanity.
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06-05-2013, 01:18 PM
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#114
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Rio Grande Valley Texas
Posts: 362
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OldCoot
So you need to set the parameters as to what is dangerous. 5# over the lawyer's sticker, 10#, 100#, 200? Where is the danger, truck frame breaking? Let's establish what the danger is to others by disregarding a lawyer sticker.
Everyone, including owners of the big trucks, needs to be cognizant that when pulling any rv or driving an rv that they cannot stop like a regular vehicle and should drive accordingly trying to anticipate any situation that would require stopping. In my opinion those pulling or driving an rv 75+ are the ones putting others in danger more than someone 300# over a lawyer sticker. JMO.
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Well for one Breaking ability. 3/4ton and 1 ton trucks have bigger disc breaks. This is fact despite what Toyota says.
Frame Strength. 3/4 - 1 ton frames are stronger.
Bolts alone in suspension parts are also bigger.
Front Suspension is also of beefier quality and stiffer which helps for swerving out of dangers.
All of the above will come into play when you have to break a quicker stop, swerve out of the way of oncoming dangers, the ability to keep a larger heavier trailer going straight.
Not to mention 3/4-1 ton trucks have full floating axles which will keep your tires on if your rear axle breaks.
And just because one may drive safe with their overloaded truck/trailer combo doesn't mean the unexpected can't happen.
__________________
__________________________________
Ruben Zamora
2007 Silverado 2500HD 4x4 Dmax/Allison, 4" Exhaust-no cat-no muffler
2012 Palomino Puma 23FB
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06-05-2013, 01:29 PM
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#115
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Mod free 5er
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Concord, NC
Posts: 24,702
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RubenZ
...And just because one may drive safe with their overloaded truck/trailer combo doesn't mean the unexpected can't happen.
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As the unexpected can also happen to 3/4T trucks up to and including Macks, Peterbilts, Freightliners, trains & planes. Life itself is a gamble. So we just have to each go our separate ways and suffer the consequences of our decisions. Bottom line, enjoy your rig and camping. Life is too short anyway.
__________________
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06-05-2013, 01:32 PM
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#116
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Lexington, NC
Posts: 2,621
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dustman_stx
Herk,
I always appreciate your insight, but I have to ask for clarification here. Surely you aren't meaning to equate legality with integrity. If that is the case we could discuss Nazi Germany or Communist China. I'd also like to point out that, to my knowledge, there is no federal law requiring motorists to abide by a light truck's published ratings. In some areas this may be the case, but one might be legal in one state or city and illegal in the next. I happen to think it is "unfair", for lack of a better word, to judge one's integrity by whether or not one is able to follow 100% to a tee the convoluted web of laws one might encounter when traveling. This speaks not only to weight but also length, speed, and....etc. I do agree that a person with integrity will attempt to obey laws as long as there is no objection of conscience. But I find it a stretch to apply that same litmus test to a sticker on the door of a truck that assumes a host of unknown values to be able to arrive at it's published rating in the first place.
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Well said, Dustman.
__________________
2018 Coachmen Apex 249 RBS
2010 Silverado LT 5.3 V8
The world is a great book, of which those who never stir from home
read only a page. - St. Augustine
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06-05-2013, 01:34 PM
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#117
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Metro St. Louis Area
Posts: 1,248
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CZNEDY
WOW, you guys are brutal!
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Sorry about that- If it works for you and you feel safe doing so then go for it. Its really about a matter of personal choice. I am pretty conservative when it comes to safety issues especially with my family. I agree with others here...and have made a few comments about some of the excessive speeds I have seen fellow RV'ers travel at. It really really bothers me when I see these things with kids bikes hanging off the back. Towing overloaded and being cautious I would assume is much safer than being in specs with a 35' TT at 75MPH behind a Tahoe.
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06-05-2013, 01:54 PM
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#118
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Site Team - Lou
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: South Eastern PA
Posts: 23,268
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dustman_stx
Surely you aren't meaning to equate legality with integrity. ... I do agree that a person with integrity will attempt to obey laws as long as there is no objection of conscience.
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Integrity is doing what is right when no one is looking. A person who obeys the law and follows the rules (I agree - provided it is not a matter of conscience - I am a signature member of Oath Keepers) has integrity.
integrity - synonyms or related words for integrity | American English | Macmillan Dictionary and Thesaurus
__________________
Lou & Freya the wonder dog
2008 GMC Sierra 3000HD Allison Duramax
2019 Flagstaff 8529FL
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06-05-2013, 02:07 PM
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#119
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Lexington, NC
Posts: 2,621
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ryand
Sorry about that- If it works for you and you feel safe doing so then go for it. Its really about a matter of personal choice. I am pretty conservative when it comes to safety issues especially with my family. I agree with others here...and have made a few comments about some of the excessive speeds I have seen fellow RV'ers travel at. It really really bothers me when I see these things with kids bikes hanging off the back. Towing overloaded and being cautious I would assume is much safer than being in specs with a 35' TT at 75MPH behind a Tahoe.
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Yes. Excessive speed with a big load is the height of irresponsibility and a danger to everyone.
__________________
2018 Coachmen Apex 249 RBS
2010 Silverado LT 5.3 V8
The world is a great book, of which those who never stir from home
read only a page. - St. Augustine
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06-05-2013, 02:13 PM
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#120
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Up and down the east coast
Posts: 2,351
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The only time I have a "Big Load On" is about 2 hours after I finish setting up and there are 15 Bud Light Cans in the Barrel. It's tough talking to the 1/2 Ton Fun Visitors then.
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2020 S.O.B.
2016 Jeep Wrangler 75th and a
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Days Camped, Not Enough
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