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Old 04-26-2018, 05:26 PM   #1
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Time to update TV what options?

I knew when I bought the trailer I was going to have to update the truck and I finally reached the point I am willing to upgrade.

I am looking at an F250 or F350 in the 15-17 year range. I currently tow a 26rlws bumper pull but will eventually update to a smaller 5er. This is my daily driver and I like bling so I am going to take a bit of a hit no matter what I do. I don't want a DRW mainly because I don't want to park is the south 40 every day.

My questions are what options should I look for?

Higher gcwr package 11400 or 10000? How limiting is 10k with a 5er?
Looking at 6.7L diesel
Gooseneck /5er prep
Do I want heavy duty front suspension? Saw some arguments both ways.
What else is needed when I update to 5er?
Are there specific tire/rim packages?
How much benefit will I get 6.75 bed vs 8? Remember I have to park it as a daily driver.

I am looking to be prepared for the future because a few extra bucks now beats 10k later for another truck upgrade. Tell me what I am missing?
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Old 04-26-2018, 06:13 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by dbledan View Post
I knew when I bought the trailer I was going to have to update the truck and I finally reached the point I am willing to upgrade.

I am looking at an F250 or F350 in the 15-17 year range. I currently tow a 26rlws bumper pull but will eventually update to a smaller 5er. This is my daily driver and I like bling so I am going to take a bit of a hit no matter what I do. I don't want a DRW mainly because I don't want to park is the south 40 every day.

My questions are what options should I look for?

Higher gcwr package 11400 or 10000? How limiting is 10k with a 5er?
--Not too sure on this. It's still a little confusing to me. I have a 29' 5th wheel with a GVWR of 12,000 pounds. I typically pull at 11K or less.

Looking at 6.7L diesel
--Awesome engine. My 2011 has around 76K. So far only a DEF pump replaced. It tows my 5th wheel great. It was a daily driver, but in the last 3 or 4 years it has been relegated to my tow truck and weekend "Gawd I miss driving this thing" vehicle. I now work 36 miles from home, through downtown Houston, and park in a parking garage. A beater car was the way to go.

Gooseneck /5er prep
--Can't speak to this, but it will save you from having it done later.

Do I want heavy duty front suspension? Saw some arguments both ways.
--I don't have the heavy duty on mine. Never been an issue. Seems like it would be a waste unless you snap on a shovel for plowing.

What else is needed when I update to 5er?
--Just be sure all your weights are in check. Don't go overboard on the 5th wheel since it sounds like you are getting the truck before the trailer.

Are there specific tire/rim packages?
--The tires/rims are typically matched with the trim of the truck. Get what you like if you can. Since you're going used, it may not be an option, but get what you can live with.

How much benefit will I get 6.75 bed vs 8? Remember I have to park it as a daily driver.
--I have had both. I started with a short bed, then went long, now back to short. The long bed definitely gives you more room for stuff. But for straight towing, it's not that important. I did just fine with my long bed as a daily driver, and have no issues with the short bed. It does take a little getting used to, but in most circumstances, it's not a big deal.

I am looking to be prepared for the future because a few extra bucks now beats 10k later for another truck upgrade. Tell me what I am missing?
--Hope my answers help you a little anyway. Good luck.
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Old 04-26-2018, 06:35 PM   #3
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What do you mean by eventually moving to a small 5er? Is that a year? 5 years? Also how long do you keep your vehicles? If you are looking 5 years out for a 5er and only keep your trucks for the 3 or 4 years they have a warranty then I'd not get out of hand yet...

I have a 2500 diesel (Chevy, but I am not one of those brand Nazis). IF I did this again (and I will in another 6 or 8 years) I'll do a 3500. It is only $500 more and a much larger truck for payload (what you'll want for the 5er's pin weight). You'll max the payload out way before the vehicle's tow rating.

IF you keep your vehicle for a while and because it is a daily driver I'd lean to the diesel. My truck in gas gets about 14mpg on a good day (drove one for 2 weeks), Diesel.. 18 to 20. I drive 60miles a day round trip to work so the diesel MPG is a benefit. If you drive a mile to work and camp once or twice a year a gas will probably work fine 90% of the time and save the up charge. Now my truck I got for the same cost as the gas truck due to a rebate... So that was a wash for me.

My 2500 is 10k the 3500 would bump me to 11k (maybe 11.5k). Not sure about the "heavy duty front susp". The HD/ Super Duty trucks are pretty beefy.. Not sure what else you'd need. I have no experience with a goose neck / 5er prep. I just installed rails in my bed and was not limited to hitches that could work with the factory 5er preps.

I have the 6.5ft bed and have gotten all over small towns and cities with out issue. I have a slider hitch but even at a full 90 turn I do not even come close to the back of my cab.
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Old 04-26-2018, 06:50 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by EdJunior View Post
--Hope my answers help you a little anyway. Good luck.
Thanks this helps!

I did learn the over buy the trailer lesson the hard way. Next one should be better based on what I learned the hard way I hope. Trying to be a bit more proactive.
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Old 04-26-2018, 06:57 PM   #5
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What do you mean by eventually moving to a small 5er? Is that a year? 5 years? Also how long do you keep your vehicles? If you are looking 5 years out for a 5er and only keep your trucks for the 3 or 4 years they have a warranty then I'd not get out of hand yet...

I have a 2500 diesel (Chevy, but I am not one of those brand Nazis). IF I did this again (and I will in another 6 or 8 years) I'll do a 3500. It is only $500 more and a much larger truck for payload (what you'll want for the 5er's pin weight). You'll max the payload out way before the vehicle's tow rating.

IF you keep your vehicle for a while and because it is a daily driver I'd lean to the diesel. My truck in gas gets about 14mpg on a good day (drove one for 2 weeks), Diesel.. 18 to 20. I drive 60miles a day round trip to work so the diesel MPG is a benefit. If you drive a mile to work and camp once or twice a year a gas will probably work fine 90% of the time and save the up charge. Now my truck I got for the same cost as the gas truck due to a rebate... So that was a wash for me.

My 2500 is 10k the 3500 would bump me to 11k (maybe 11.5k). Not sure about the "heavy duty front susp". The HD/ Super Duty trucks are pretty beefy.. Not sure what else you'd need. I have no experience with a goose neck / 5er prep. I just installed rails in my bed and was not limited to hitches that could work with the factory 5er preps.

I have the 6.5ft bed and have gotten all over small towns and cities with out issue. I have a slider hitch but even at a full 90 turn I do not even come close to the back of my cab.
Sorry doc....5er=5th wheel here too :-). We would likely update the trailer in 2-3 yrs.

I plan on getting the diesel so far. Though I don't drive far to work I still managed to put 20k on my truck this year so weekends seem to make up for the short weekday trips.

I typically keep cars 10-12 years but the forced update is making me upgrade the truck at 2.

I was planning to jump to the 350 but sometimes they are harder to find so it depends on availability and timing.

Thanks for the feedback!
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Old 04-26-2018, 07:00 PM   #6
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Sorry doc....5er=5th wheel here too :-). We would likely update the trailer in 2-3 yrs.

I plan on getting the diesel so far. Though I don't drive far to work I still managed to put 20k on my truck this year so weekends seem to make up for the short weekday trips.

I typically keep cars 10-12 years but the forced update is making me upgrade the truck at 2.

I was planning to jump to the 350 but sometimes they are harder to find so it depends on availability and timing.

Thanks for the feedback!
The 350s are but it may be worth the wait or even the need to order.. I think you'd be better served IF THAT IS DIRECTION YOUR GOING .
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Old 04-26-2018, 07:02 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by dbledan View Post
Sorry doc....5er=5th wheel here too :-). We would likely update the trailer in 2-3 yrs.

I plan on getting the diesel so far. Though I don't drive far to work I still managed to put 20k on my truck this year so weekends seem to make up for the short weekday trips.

I typically keep cars 10-12 years but the forced update is making me upgrade the truck at 2.

I was planning to jump to the 350 but sometimes they are harder to find so it depends on availability and timing.

Thanks for the feedback!
I was scratching my head to why you apologized then I realized read my response... I meant how long was eventually going to actually mean, not what did 5er mean.. Sorry not very clear sometimes.
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Old 04-26-2018, 07:17 PM   #8
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Thanks this helps!

I did learn the over buy the trailer lesson the hard way. Next one should be better based on what I learned the hard way I hope. Trying to be a bit more proactive.
My lesson with moving from a F150 and a 29' trailer to a F250 was not getting a truck with the puck system. Bought a 5er. last July I paid $450 to have the bed rails installed beyond the buying the hitch. If I move to a 5er beyond the half-ton towable range I will go for a bigger truck and will have to leave that money I spent for the install and hitch behind, plus pay close to $1k for my desired hitch.

For now, my regrets, None. Sounds like you have experienced the growing bug. Unless you have a big wallet "this thing of ours", is, what it is. LOL...
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Old 04-26-2018, 07:36 PM   #9
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My lesson with moving from a F150 and a 29' trailer to a F250 was not getting a truck with the puck system. Bought a 5er. last July I paid $450 to have the bed rails installed beyond the buying the hitch. If I move to a 5er beyond the half-ton towable range I will go for a bigger truck and will have to leave that money I spent for the install and hitch behind, plus pay close to $1k for my desired hitch.

For now, my regrets, None. Sounds like you have experienced the growing bug. Unless you have a big wallet "this thing of ours", is, what it is. LOL...
Is that the 5th wheel/gooseneck prep package or the actual gooseneck hitch?
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Old 04-26-2018, 07:59 PM   #10
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Is that the 5th wheel/gooseneck prep package or the actual gooseneck hitch?
You got me there. I was just looking for the 5th wheel setup. The gooseneck package might be part of it (I do not know). That is a path I have not investigated and do not have any knowledge to speak to. Others can go there (speak to it)...

Edit: The 5er hitch I want will be around $1K for a hitch that will use the puck system.
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Old 04-26-2018, 08:41 PM   #11
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I knew when I bought the trailer I was going to have to update the truck and I finally reached the point I am willing to upgrade.

I am looking at an F250 or F350 in the 15-17 year range. I currently tow a 26rlws bumper pull but will eventually update to a smaller 5er. This is my daily driver and I like bling so I am going to take a bit of a hit no matter what I do. I don't want a DRW mainly because I don't want to park is the south 40 every day.

My questions are what options should I look for?

Higher gcwr package 11400 or 10000? How limiting is 10k with a 5er?
Looking at 6.7L diesel
Gooseneck /5er prep
Do I want heavy duty front suspension? Saw some arguments both ways.
What else is needed when I update to 5er?
Are there specific tire/rim packages?
How much benefit will I get 6.75 bed vs 8? Remember I have to park it as a daily driver.

I am looking to be prepared for the future because a few extra bucks now beats 10k later for another truck upgrade. Tell me what I am missing?
I had much the same experience that Wobbles had. I had a 25' TT and pulled it with a max tow F-150. Moved up to a 34' TT, and had problems with the F-150 in the long run, so bought an 2013 F-250 Lariat 6.7. Then upgraded to a 5th wheel with a 15500 gross and an unloaded pin wt of 1906# To handle the load, had to bag the F250 and the unit still wanted to porpoise a lot on the highway with even the smallest bumps in the road, so moved up to a 2016 CCLB DRW F-350, now I am happy.

With all that said, Let me try to help answer some of your questions. F-250 or F-350, if at all possible I would go with the F-350 SRW CCSB with camper package or whatever package you need to get the stabilizer bar on the rear end. If you can't find an F-350, then and F-250 with camper package is a must in order to get the heavier duty springs on the rear and the stabilizer bar.

As far as wheels, I had 20" wheels on my F-250, they did not hamper my ability to tow anything or reduce the load rating of the truck in anyway. I also had 3.55 electric locker on the truck, it worked great and at least thru 2016 is the same rear end in both the F-250 and F-350 SRW trucks, only difference between the two is the heavier springs in the F-350. An F-250 with camper package may have springs close to the F-350 springs. F-250 max gross is 10000, and with a premium package on the truck you are looking at 2100# roughly of load capacity before exceeding the 10000#. Whether you are comfortable towing over weight is your decision, I did it for a couple of years, but decided I just wasn't comfortable with it and upgraded to the F-350. An F-350 SRW is an 11400# gross truck so you are now at 3500 or so pounds of load capacity to play with without going over gross weight rating. F-250 or F-350 is your call and what your comfort level is.

As far as drivability for commuting and general driving, i would rather have driven my F-250 Lariat any day than any other vehicle I have ever owned. I loved it, just wanted more load capacity. Oh, and with Stock Michelin LT tires on the 20' rims and the 3.55 gearing, I got between 15 and 16 mpg running 75 on the highway, slow down to 55 to 60 and got 20 to 21 mpg. The 3.31 gearing might help fuel economy in the long run if you don't plan a lot of long haul towing, but with heavy loads the engine will definitely work harder with the 3.31 gears.

My 2016 F-350 is also a Lariat with the Lariat Ultimate package on it and being a DRW, it is a long bed, where I used to drive my F-250 like an F-150 as far as maneuvering went, with the LB and the difference front axle of the Dually, I now feel like 40 acres is needed to turn the truck around comparatively speaking.

Hope my little diatribe helped a little.

Brent
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Old 04-26-2018, 09:51 PM   #12
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I had much the same experience that Wobbles had. I had a 25' TT and pulled it with a max tow F-150. Moved up to a 34' TT, and had problems with the F-150 in the long run, so bought an 2013 F-250 Lariat 6.7. Then upgraded to a 5th wheel with a 15500 gross and an unloaded pin wt of 1906# To handle the load, had to bag the F250 and the unit still wanted to porpoise a lot on the highway with even the smallest bumps in the road, so moved up to a 2016 CCLB DRW F-350, now I am happy.

With all that said, Let me try to help answer some of your questions. F-250 or F-350, if at all possible I would go with the F-350 SRW CCSB with camper package or whatever package you need to get the stabilizer bar on the rear end. If you can't find an F-350, then and F-250 with camper package is a must in order to get the heavier duty springs on the rear and the stabilizer bar.

As far as wheels, I had 20" wheels on my F-250, they did not hamper my ability to tow anything or reduce the load rating of the truck in anyway. I also had 3.55 electric locker on the truck, it worked great and at least thru 2016 is the same rear end in both the F-250 and F-350 SRW trucks, only difference between the two is the heavier springs in the F-350. An F-250 with camper package may have springs close to the F-350 springs. F-250 max gross is 10000, and with a premium package on the truck you are looking at 2100# roughly of load capacity before exceeding the 10000#. Whether you are comfortable towing over weight is your decision, I did it for a couple of years, but decided I just wasn't comfortable with it and upgraded to the F-350. An F-350 SRW is an 11400# gross truck so you are now at 3500 or so pounds of load capacity to play with without going over gross weight rating. F-250 or F-350 is your call and what your comfort level is.

As far as drivability for commuting and general driving, i would rather have driven my F-250 Lariat any day than any other vehicle I have ever owned. I loved it, just wanted more load capacity. Oh, and with Stock Michelin LT tires on the 20' rims and the 3.55 gearing, I got between 15 and 16 mpg running 75 on the highway, slow down to 55 to 60 and got 20 to 21 mpg. The 3.31 gearing might help fuel economy in the long run if you don't plan a lot of long haul towing, but with heavy loads the engine will definitely work harder with the 3.31 gears.

My 2016 F-350 is also a Lariat with the Lariat Ultimate package on it and being a DRW, it is a long bed, where I used to drive my F-250 like an F-150 as far as maneuvering went, with the LB and the difference front axle of the Dually, I now feel like 40 acres is needed to turn the truck around comparatively speaking.

Hope my little diatribe helped a little.

Brent
I have heard the springs were really the only major difference with the 250 and 350 frame axle and back end. What do you get in the 11500 GVWR package that rates the truck higher between the 350 options?

I am close on weight now and leave stuff at home to make weight. Sometimes I put a big silver sweat suit on the trailer before we go camping to make her sweat it out. Based on the experiences I have had I would not tow over.
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Old 04-26-2018, 10:59 PM   #13
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In the SRW F-350, max GVWR is 11,500 and that is with 17 or 18" rims, 11,400 GVWR is with 20" rims, not sure what causes the 100# difference other than possibly the longer spokes/arms on the 20" rim over those on the 18" rims. The 10,000 and 9900# packages are selected downgrades for the purpose of someone being able to register the vehicle as a lighter class and not have to run commercial tags or weight rated tags in the states that have those. Not sure if Ford actually reduces the trucks spring capability for the lighter GVWR or not but wouldn't surprise me is they did to save a little in manufacturing costs.

Now if you start looking at the later trucks, the rear axle is different between F-250 and F-350, or at least that is what I have heard for 2017 and 2018 model year trucks, but 2016 and earlier the rest axle was the same, I did a part number check on the 2013 model year and the 2016 model year to verify they used the same part number axle shafts and bearings, etc.

So max GVWR in a SRW CCSB would be the F-350 with 18" wheels. The more options or higher priced the package, the less payload you would wind up with. A gas F-350 XL package in 2 wheel drive would have the most payload in the F-350 SRW, where as a Diesel 4x4 platinum package with 20" wheels is going to have the least payload available.
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Old 04-26-2018, 11:15 PM   #14
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Don't forget, long bed has larger fuel tank.
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Old 04-26-2018, 11:20 PM   #15
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Don't forget, long bed has larger fuel tank.
And lower payload!
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Old 04-27-2018, 12:24 AM   #16
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I don't think this has been mentioned yet, but...

The diesel engines are heavy, your payload capacity will drop by around 800-1000lb compared to a gas truck. That being the case, and since you want to upgrade to a 5er at some point, I would make sure you get the highest payload option available. Many diesel F250 trucks don't have much more payload capacity than a high-payload 1/2-ton truck and some have much less.

For example, maximum payload on the lightest F250 diesel (4x2 regular cab) is 3,051lb. Maximum payload on an F250 crew cab 4x4 shortbed is 1,836lb. Long bed is 1,560lb. That's barely more payload than the midsize truck in my sig.

So you definitely want to be looking at the F350 unless you're OK with a 2wd regular cab. For comparison, the highest payload on an SWR F350 is 3,981lb (2wd reg cab) and lowest is around 2,800lb. That is with the standard GVWR of 11400/11500. If you downgrade with the optional 10,000lb GVWR package then you can actually end up worse off than an F250. The F250 has a 10,000lb GVWR standard, an F350 is going to be slightly heavier than an F250 so an F350 with the 10,000lb GVWR will have less payload than an F250. Stick with the higher standard GVWR.

When you're out shopping for a truck, check the yellow sticker on the driver's B-pillar, this will tell you that specific truck's payload capacity as it sits with a tank of fuel and a driver.

I don't know what you consider a "small 5er" but let's say it has a 10,000lb GVWR (I find it best to size the truck and trailer based on the trailer's GVWR and not the fantasy dry weights, it's always best to ensure you have enough truck for the maximum trailer weight). With 20% on the pin that's up to 2,000lb of pin weight. The hitch gear is another 150lb or so. That's potentially 2,150lb on the pin. If your truck has 2,800lb payload capacity on the sticker then 2800-2150 = 650lb left for other passengers and gear in the truck.

Most F250s would be over GVWR before you left the driveway.

But, I don't know what size 5er you're thinking of so this is all just a thought exercise to help you get a better idea of what you should be looking at and how to make sure you match the truck and trailer as best as possible. No such thing as too much truck.

Good luck!
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Old 04-27-2018, 10:55 AM   #17
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I don't think this has been mentioned yet, but...

The diesel engines are heavy, your payload capacity will drop by around 800-1000lb compared to a gas truck. That being the case, and since you want to upgrade to a 5er at some point, I would make sure you get the highest payload option available. Many diesel F250 trucks don't have much more payload capacity than a high-payload 1/2-ton truck and some have much less.

For example, maximum payload on the lightest F250 diesel (4x2 regular cab) is 3,051lb. Maximum payload on an F250 crew cab 4x4 shortbed is 1,836lb. Long bed is 1,560lb. That's barely more payload than the midsize truck in my sig.

So you definitely want to be looking at the F350 unless you're OK with a 2wd regular cab. For comparison, the highest payload on an SWR F350 is 3,981lb (2wd reg cab) and lowest is around 2,800lb. That is with the standard GVWR of 11400/11500. If you downgrade with the optional 10,000lb GVWR package then you can actually end up worse off than an F250. The F250 has a 10,000lb GVWR standard, an F350 is going to be slightly heavier than an F250 so an F350 with the 10,000lb GVWR will have less payload than an F250. Stick with the higher standard GVWR.

When you're out shopping for a truck, check the yellow sticker on the driver's B-pillar, this will tell you that specific truck's payload capacity as it sits with a tank of fuel and a driver.

I don't know what you consider a "small 5er" but let's say it has a 10,000lb GVWR (I find it best to size the truck and trailer based on the trailer's GVWR and not the fantasy dry weights, it's always best to ensure you have enough truck for the maximum trailer weight). With 20% on the pin that's up to 2,000lb of pin weight. The hitch gear is another 150lb or so. That's potentially 2,150lb on the pin. If your truck has 2,800lb payload capacity on the sticker then 2800-2150 = 650lb left for other passengers and gear in the truck.

Most F250s would be over GVWR before you left the driveway.

But, I don't know what size 5er you're thinking of so this is all just a thought exercise to help you get a better idea of what you should be looking at and how to make sure you match the truck and trailer as best as possible. No such thing as too much truck.

Good luck!
Thanks. I use the gross max weight on trailers because I tend to load them up. My current bumper pull has all storage in the front and ended up 16% tongue weight. Because of this I am currently close on payload with the 150 and have to leave stuff behind to not be over. The reason I like the 350 is because of the higher payload when switching to the diesel. The 6.7 I borrowed I liked with and without the trailer plus I have heard they have fewer issues than the smaller engines.

I like understanding the differences so I know if I can upgrade the truck or just wait for the right 350 to come along. I have a buddy that goes to auction weekly willing to look for me so I may just end up waiting based on the feedback I am seeing here.

We looked at 5ers before but I said no because they were too heavy for 1/2 ton I had just bought. She will go back there but with just us it will likely be the 1/2 ton towable version or close to that size. Seems like 250 would not be enough the way I pack.

Thanks for the feedback.
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Old 04-29-2018, 12:04 PM   #18
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Ok,
I did not read all the comments.
I can answer based on I hurt my bought an 2014 f350 for the same reasons.
6.7, 115000gvwr
Crew cab, SRW, long bed.
Lariet model. Sun roof, b&w turn over in the bed along with the factory puck system. Got it all as far as I can tell.
A few things missing not much though.
I spent the last 3 months shopping used 13,14,15's. This one fit my budget best.
You are shopping newer than I did. This will be my retirement truck so I got all I could get with in my budget. Plus i want to keep camping.
So get everything you want.
Long bed is better with a 5th wheel, JMHO.
B&W turnover hitch opens up what you can tow, regular trailer, 5er, gooseneck. The Puck system saves someone cutting into your bed for hitches.
So far after a week of driving it 17.9mpg around town. No towing yet as I get my companion hitch today. Drops into the turn over hitch. So I don't know that. But my 7.3psd got 10.5 mpg towing around 15mpg around town.
If you can afford it get all you want and then some.
Ill answer anything I can.
Thanks
Randy
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Old 04-29-2018, 07:05 PM   #19
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Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Mount Vernon, Ohio
Posts: 179
Just upgraded my 13 f250 6.7, since we got a bigger fifth wheel. It had a payload of 2700. My new 5r had a dry pin weight of 2300. It pulled ok with the 3.73 gears....but squatted some in the rear. I thought about airbags to level out...but that wouldn’t help my payload problem. Traded to a 2016 F350 DRW, 6.7, 4.30 gear. Took my payload up to almost 6000.
That truck will pull anything you hook to it. Mileage not as good as the 250, mostly because of gearing. Around town I get 16. Not pulling on the highway, about 18.5. Hope this helps.
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