Tongue weight reduction.

[Stormrider151]

I have a 2015 Salem 27DBUD. Unfortunately I didn't do all my home work and have come to realize I need to get the tongue weight down some to get under the 15% mark. Right now I'm at 15.6%. My plan is to replace the 30# gas tanks with 20's. And move gear from the front pass through to the rear compartment. I'm having a hard time understanding how some of the trailers that are much larger come in with weights substantially lower than mine. The other possibility is a super expensive lithium battery. I use one on my bike and I'm very impressed with it's performance. My current tongue weight is 1050# and the trailer weighs in at 6760#. We really don't carry that much gear with us when we camp and we rarely go camping more than 3 times a year and never over 50 miles away. The F150 is just maxed out with payload and very close on tongue weight. Any other ideas other than a new truck (out of the question right now) would be much appreciated. The trailer will be up for sale in the spring and we'll probably move to a good used Class C motorhome. Thanks for your help.

[asquared]

Looks like that tt has a dry tongue weight of 12.5% so I can see where it would be easy to get up to a loaded 15% TW. Remember to be careful transferring to much back as it can cause a sway condition. How is your wdh set up? Are you level, front axle weight is close to unloaded weight? What method did you use to determine your tongue weight?

What do you have in your front closets and under the front bed? Remember anything in front of the axles will add to the tongue weight. That tt is set up very similar to my old zinger and we did run a heavy tongue weight. We tried moving some weight to the rear and got sway so had to go back to the heavy tongue weight.

[techntrek]

I have a 26 TBUD and in general these similar models were just designed with a high tongue weight. I've seen identical layouts from other makers that were much lighter.

I think you are ok unless you are over your tongue rating for the F150. It is better to be a little too heavy on the tongue than too light, which as mentioned will induce sway. If you aren't over your tongue weight, leave your tanks and maybe shift a little weight to the rear. Personally I wouldn't worry about it.

[Stormrider151]

The hitch was set up wrong at the dealer. It looked good at PDI but it wasn't sitting level. We used it one time and looking at it on level ground it's a little tongue high. I was using a Husky WHD with two friction sway controls. I haven't set it up yet but I now have a straight line duel cam that I will do myself. We don't load anything in the wardrobe until we get where we are going. We put our clothes and stuff on the dinette which is over the axels. Right now I have the heavy gear in the front pass through (which really isn't heavy at all) and the lighter stuff in the back. At over 15% I can afford (at least I think) to move some stuff to the back. When I towed it the last time I had a real sway problem on the interstate. I'm hoping getting the hitch set up right, the dual cam and reducing the weight at the hitch will fix the sway issue.

[Stormrider151]

Originally Posted by techntrek

I have a 26 TBUD and in general these similar models were just designed with a high tongue weight. I've seen identical layouts from other makers that were much lighter.

I think you are ok unless you are over your tongue rating for the F150. It is better to be a little too heavy on the tongue than too light, which as mentioned will induce sway. If you aren't over your tongue weight, leave your tanks and maybe shift a little weight to the rear. Personally I wouldn't worry about it.

Can I as what you are towing with?

[B and B]

Storm rider do you have LT Tires on the truck? That certainly helps with load capacity and nearly eliminates the rear end squirm in the truck.

Brian

[asquared]

Was it true sweaty or wander? True sway is defined as oscillations increasing in speed and sideways distance. A little side to side wander/ wiggle is normal as is a little bow wave affect from passing semis. Or do you have more of a porpoise motion? If you really do have a sway condition, do not decrease your tongue weight as it will worsen the sway condition. What you need is better wdh set up as you have already guessed by purchasing the reese dual cam. I used the reese dual cam with my old tt, it is a bear to dial in but once correct, it is a great hitch. I found adjusting wdh by weights to be Vetter than measurements. Start out by measurements and then go weigh your rig. If you haven't already, get a truck weight with no tt, a weight with tt and no wdh and then a weight with wdh hooked up. Goal is to get your front axle as close to unloaded weight as possible without going heavier. Remember, a properly set up wdh will distribute the tongue weight over both truck axles and done weight back to the tt as well.

Here is a great write up on how to set up wdh.
And a good one on how wdh works.

I wouldn't change too many things at one time or you won't know what helped vs made worse. Start with the hitch first. Then look to how you are loaded. Also, are you running p tires or LT tires on your f150? LT tires are stiffer and have less wander than p tires. If your rims can handle it, go load range E.

[Stormrider151]

Originally Posted by B and B

Storm rider do you have LT Tires on the truck? That certainly helps with load capacity and nearly eliminates the rear end squirm in the truck.

Brian

No Brian, I still have the P metrics on my truck. I don't drive much. It's a 2012 and has less than 24000 miles on it. That said my tires are in great shape and as bad as I would like to change to LT's I just can't make myself get rid of good tires. But you are absolutely right it would make a huge difference and maybe I should just bite the bullet and go ahead and do it.

[Stormrider151]

Originally Posted by asquared

Was it true sweaty or wander? True sway is defined as oscillations increasing in speed and sideways distance. A little side to side wander/ wiggle is normal as is a little bow wave affect from passing semis. Or do you have more of a porpoise motion? If you really do have a sway condition, do not decrease your tongue weight as it will worsen the sway condition. What you need is better wdh set up as you have already guessed by purchasing the reese dual cam. I used the reese dual cam with my old tt, it is a bear to dial in but once correct, it is a great hitch. I found adjusting wdh by weights to be Vetter than measurements. Start out by measurements and then go weigh your rig. If you haven't already, get a truck weight with no tt, a weight with tt and no wdh and then a weight with wdh hooked up. Goal is to get your front axle as close to unloaded weight as possible without going heavier. Remember, a properly set up wdh will distribute the tongue weight over both truck axles and done weight back to the tt as well.

Here is a great write up on how to set up wdh.
And a good one on how wdh works.

I wouldn't change too many things at one time or you won't know what helped vs made worse. Start with the hitch first. Then look to how you are loaded. Also, are you running p tires or LT tires on your f150? LT tires are stiffer and have less wander than p tires. If your rims can handle it, go load range E.

Good advice and great articles. Why I haven't seen those already I don't know. I thought I had watched every video and read every article on the subject. It was defiantly sway. My dog doesn't wag his tail like that and my brother who was behind me called me on the radio to see if I was alright. It was on the verge of being out of control. I know what you are referring to it feels like the tongue is going around in little circles. My Hybrid did that. After awhile I didn't even notice it. This was completely different. My understanding is tongue weight should be within 10% to 15% of loaded trailer weight. I'm at 15.6%. That doesn't contribute to sway?. I'm 100# under max hitch weight.

[B and B]

I felt the same way with mine, I did run them on the fifth wheel for the first summer. I have the same truck as you have, did tow a 32 FT Rockwood 2703 SS TT close to the same weight, the tongue weight was below 1000 lbs but I made up for that with a 500 lb cap on the truck. I have 8,000 miles on the rig this past summer with LT Tires and not an issue, I do temp checks at rest stops and nothing heats up like the P did. Speaking from my limited experience and two trucks (09 F150 5.4 L and now the Ecoboost) with P tires towing the TT the sway was absolutely awful, the hitch was not the culprit. DW wanted a 5th wheel and we traded so I never was able to close the loop on P and sway but from what other have experienced that is a major component contributing to it. I do know LT with the Fifth Wheel is just sticks to the road no matter what I encounter.

It certainly sounds like you are going to get the hitch fixed, my Reese SC Series Hitch was too light as well, needed 1000 lb bars they put 600 lb bars on mine and they could not handle it.



Sorry for the long post, all the best.

Brian

[OldCoot]

Originally Posted by B and B

...so I never was able to close the loop on P and sway but from what other have experienced that is a major component contributing to it...Brian

I can give you my experience with P tires and a 5er, I did not notice any sway, but the tire wear on the front and rear was atrocious. I put a new set of Goodyear Fortera HL on and @ 25,000 miles, all 4 were down to 4/32" tread left even tho' I rotated them every 5,000 and always ran 44# when towing. Put GY Wrangler LR E on and have over 25,000 on them and they still have 10/32" left of the original12/32" running 60#front/65#rear.

[Stormrider151]

I did a little shopping for LT's (feeling a little violated right now) but Tire rack looks about the best. It'll have to wait until Uncle Sam pony's up (if he does). But I'll be putting LT's on my truck for sure.

[acadianbob]

If you are tongue high, that is definitely a problem. That is sway inducing right there. Tackling that issue is the first thing you need to do. A common culprit there is if the ball on your truck is positioned too high. Get your trailer on the level (not hooked up) and measure the height from the ground to the inside of the coupler. The height of the ball on your truck (unloaded) should be approximately 1" higher that your trailer measurement.

etrailer.com has some excellent information posted on their web site on adjusting hitches.

[Windjammin]

You might try lowering your hitch height to make the trailer level before doing anything else. I towed an 8000 pound trailer almost 17000 miles to Alaska and back this summer using a 1500 Silverado with P rated tires that came on the truck and a 4 point Equalizer hitch. No sway at all even when semis passed me on the interstates. My hitch weight is about 12% of the loaded trailer weight. I think if you are nose high it might have a detrimental effect on your stability.

[Stormrider151]

Originally Posted by acadianbob

If you are tongue high, that is definitely a problem. That is sway inducing right there. Tackling that issue is the first thing you need to do. A common culprit there is if the ball on your truck is positioned too high. Get your trailer on the level (not hooked up) and measure the height from the ground to the inside of the coupler. The height of the ball on your truck (unloaded) should be approximately 1" higher that your trailer measurement.

etrailer.com has some excellent information posted on their web site on adjusting hitches.

I'll bet I've watched their video 15 times and have memorized the instructions that came with the hitch. It is obviously hitch high so I'm going to do it myself and make sure it's right. Dealers don't seem to put a lot of effort into setting hitch's right. Sometimes I think they figure they do it so much they take short cuts they shouldn't. This kid was new to the dealer and "Learning". My luck.

[SKnight]

Let me get this straight. You're looking at spending big dollars to change six tenths of one percent, loaded and ready to go? At 10.5lbs per 1% of tongue weight you're looking at trying to relieve six pounds?

If you're worried about it toss all the clothing into baskets and set them at the rear of the camper when traveling. Canned food too. No way I'd spend money on smaller lp tanks or lithium batteries over six pounds.

Figure out what tools you need to reset the hitch, find a nice flat level parking lot, make it right and tow happy.

[raspivey]

Originally Posted by Stormrider151

My understanding is tongue weight should be within 10% to 15% of loaded trailer weight.

Is "normally" between 10-15%....doesn't "have" to be, although general consensus is that you want at least 10% pushing down on the ball. Some trailers are designed nose heavy. The main thing is to have more weight in front of the trailer axles than behind them and enough weight to keep it from bouncing loose.

[Stormrider151]

Originally Posted by SKnight

Let me get this straight. You're looking at spending big dollars to change six tenths of one percent, loaded and ready to go? At 10.5lbs per 1% of tongue weight you're looking at trying to relieve six pounds?

If you're worried about it toss all the clothing into baskets and set them at the rear of the camper when traveling. Canned food too. No way I'd spend money on smaller lp tanks or lithium batteries over six pounds.

Figure out what tools you need to reset the hitch, find a nice flat level parking lot, make it right and tow happy.

Actually I was hoping to reduce the weight down 2.6%. I really need to reduce the payload on the truck. I'm over by about 150# and thought I had room on the tongue. There's nothing in the truck except a few tools and the two of us. But I have added a bed cover, running boards and a grill guard which takes away from my load capacity. The battery I was just curious about. The rest I already have.

[OldCoot]

Originally Posted by Stormrider151

Actually I was hoping to reduce the weight down 2.6%. I really need to reduce the payload on the truck. I'm over by about 150# and thought I had room on the tongue. There's nothing in the truck except a few tools and the two of us. But I have added a bed cover, running boards and a grill guard which takes away from my load capacity. The battery I was just curious about. The rest I already have.

For 150#, I wouldn't waste the effort. The scales could be off that much. The world won't come to an end and it sure isn't going to cause your truck any problems.

[Taranwanderer]

Originally Posted by Stormrider151

...and maybe I should just bite the bullet and go ahead and do it.

Yes, you should. Keep the P tires for another vehicle if you have one and they fit, or sell them to a local used tire place, but get them off your rig if you're towing something that big. There's no set of tires in the world that's worth risking your safety, plus that of your family, your truck, your camper, and everyone else around you on the road.

I would also not drop the propane tanks to 20 pounders--the weight savings will be negligible and you'll regret not having that extra capacity. Move things around if you must, but I think the prior advice on the WDH set up and hitch height is going to solve half your problem, with the other half being good LT tires...