Tow Ratings

[JohnD10]

Originally Posted by bikendan

So loaded for camping, it'll be more than an extra 400lbs and 75lbs tongue weight.

You need to start thinking of "Loaded" weight numbers, NOT "dry" weight numbers.

And those numbers in reality are pretty conservative.

Most people tend to pack more weight than what they think really they do.

[Oaklevel]

Originally Posted by srea1957

My van is rated for 3,500 pounds towing capacity (I've also installed a transmission fluid cooler). I'm looking at getting a 3,295 pound travel trailer, but people are telling me that that's too much weight to tow with my van (even with a load leveler and anti-sway bars). What's the problem with towing a camper lighter than my tow rating?

If the 3295 lbs is dry weight you are looking more like 4000 to 4,200 lbs or more, loaded for camping.

Good Luck.............

[srea1957]

According to Etrailer.com, using a load leveler (weight distribution) hitch raises the towing capacity from 3,500 pounds to 5,000 pounds, and the maximum tongue weight from 350 pounds to 500 pounds. So it looks like I'm OK using a load leveler (weight distribution) hitch to tow my Flagstaff 25D trailer with my Chevy Venture van. See:
https://www.etrailer.com/hitch-2005_...et_Venture.htm
Any thoughts?

[pgandw]

Originally Posted by srea1957

According to Etrailer.com, using a load leveler (weight distribution) hitch raises the towing capacity from 3,500 pounds to 5,000 pounds, and the maximum tongue weight from 350 pounds to 500 pounds. So it looks like I'm OK using a load leveler (weight distribution) hitch to tow my Flagstaff 25D trailer with my Chevy Venture van. See:
https://www.etrailer.com/hitch-2005_...et_Venture.htm
Any thoughts?

My thought is - and I tow with a 2008 Hyundai (Kia) minivan - is you are NOT going to be a happy camper. I have towed various pop-ups and A-frames with 6 cylinder SUVs and minivans. And I have towed 22ft and 25ft sailboats (6,000) lbs with a full-size Ford station wagon and 2500 Suburban 4WD.

Even if you can handle the weights safely (questionable), the frontal area (74 sq ft) of the 25D is going to destroy your engine and transmission, and significant cross winds are going to be dangerous to handle. Minivans were not built to handle that large a wind sail leveraging the back end. Many mid-size SUVs and minivans have a towing limitation of 40-45 sq ft frontal area. If they don't, they should have.

With my Hyundai (Kia) minivan, I towed a 2800lb A-frame with a folded frontal area of 35 sq ft (using an E2 600/6000 WDH). It was comfortable, and because the transmission gearing was well matched to the engine, I had power enough to go up Colorado mountain grades at highway speeds with a little acceleration to spare. Gas mileage varied from 14 to 21mpg towing, depending on what direction the wind was from.

This year, we went up to a 3150lb (actual wt), high wall A-frame which increased the frontal area to 42 sq ft with the same WDH. The difference in wind resistance (20% more frontal area) is noticeable. I spend more time in lower gears, and listen to the engine winding more. I am considering adding a washer to the WDH to move more weight on the front wheels. I'm at what I consider the max I would consider towing with the minivan.

The Hyundai has a 250HP, 270 ft lbs torque V-6 - among the bigger in its class.

I used to tow an equivalent size pop-up with a 1993 Ford Explorer with no WDH. 175 HP, 225 lbs torque. An absolutely miserable, white knuckle experience. The gears and rear end ratio on the Exploder were not well-suited to towing. We would end up slowing to 45 (and 25 on I-70 going to the Eisenhower Tunnel) due to lack of power to do more. Without a WDH, the rear end sagged badly, and the sway would start at 62 MPH.

My best guess it that your Venture's capabilities are slightly less than the Hyundai's. Please don't try to tow a full size TT with the minivan.

Fred W
2019 Flagstaff T21TBHW A-frame
2008 Hyundai Entourage minivan
camping Colorado and adjacent states one weekend at a time

[kfergiez]

Originally Posted by srea1957

According to Etrailer.com, using a load leveler (weight distribution) hitch raises the towing capacity from 3,500 pounds to 5,000 pounds, and the maximum tongue weight from 350 pounds to 500 pounds. So it looks like I'm OK using a load leveler (weight distribution) hitch to tow my Flagstaff 25D trailer with my Chevy Venture van. See:
https://www.etrailer.com/hitch-2005_...et_Venture.htm
Any thoughts?

Nope nope nope... This is a big misunderstanding people have. You can NEVER increase the weight capacity of a vehicle by simply adding a WDH. The van's capacity is fixed, and cannot be changed by adding a WDH or stronger tow hitch.

YES, it does redistribute weight to eliminate the sag of the rear end, but that's it. The weight is still there, and it's a lot more than what your vehicle can safely tow.

[HangDiver]

Originally Posted by kfergiez

Nope nope nope... This is a big misunderstanding people have. You can NEVER increase the weight capacity of a vehicle by simply adding a WDH. The van's capacity is fixed, and cannot be changed by adding a WDH or stronger tow hitch.

YES, it does redistribute weight to eliminate the sag of the rear end, but that's it. The weight is still there, and it's a lot more than what your vehicle can safely tow.

This^^^^^^^ A weight distributed hitch does not change the payload capacity or towing capacity of your tow vehicle.

[DieselDrax]

Originally Posted by srea1957

According to Etrailer.com, using a load leveler (weight distribution) hitch raises the towing capacity from 3,500 pounds to 5,000 pounds, and the maximum tongue weight from 350 pounds to 500 pounds. So it looks like I'm OK using a load leveler (weight distribution) hitch to tow my Flagstaff 25D trailer with my Chevy Venture van. See:
https://www.etrailer.com/hitch-2005_...et_Venture.htm
Any thoughts?

As mentioned above, WDH does not increase the VEHICLE tow capacity or rating, it simply increases how much that class of HITCH can handle. Two entirely different things. For example, putting a Class IV receiver with a 10,000lb capacity on your van would not give you a 10,000lb tow rating. You are still limited to 3,500LB.

A 2008 Flagstaff 25D has a GVWR of 6,388LB - nearly 2,900 OVER your van's maximum tow rating. If you want to even be in the ballpark of matching a trailer to your tow vehicle you mustn't even consider a trailer that has a GVWR that exceeds your tow rating.

Also, as you add people and gear to the van your tow rating goes down. Let's say you take your 3,500LB tow rating, which is based on 150LB driver and a full tank of gas, and...

You weigh 200LB
Your spouse weighs 150LB
Your dogs weigh 100LB
Your WDH weighs 75LB
You have tools and other misc stuff in your van that weighs a total of 200LB.

That's (200 + 150 + 100 + 75 + 200) - 150 = 575LB increase over what the base tow rating was based on, meaning your max tow rating is no longer 3,500LB but is 3,500 - 575 = 2,925LB.

That doesn't even take into account your payload capacity reduction, but that may be less of a concern than tow rating here. Looks like you may have roughly 1,600LB of payload, now ALL added weight is subtracted from that. 1,600 - 725 = 875LB remaining payload. A 3,500LB trailer with 12% tongue weight would have 420LB on the tongue, so wouldn't exceed your payload capacity.

Sorry if this sounds complicated and confusing, but there are a number of factors you need to consider. "Dry weight" is a fantasy, it's unrealistic. Short of weighing the trailer, go by GVWR vs tow capacity and 15% of GVWR vs remaining payload capacity. That will get you in the ballpark.

But under no circumstances will your van be able to tow a 25D.

Well, it could...but not very far. You'd be way over your max tow/GCWR and you'd be overworking the engine and transmission, likely finding yourself on the side of the road broken down because something overheated/burned up.

[JohnD10]

Originally Posted by srea1957

According to Etrailer.com, using a load leveler (weight distribution) hitch raises the towing capacity from 3,500 pounds to 5,000 pounds, and the maximum tongue weight from 350 pounds to 500 pounds. So it looks like I'm OK using a load leveler (weight distribution) hitch to tow my Flagstaff 25D trailer with my Chevy Venture van. See:
https://www.etrailer.com/hitch-2005_...et_Venture.htm
Any thoughts?

Please don't talk yourself into this van and trailer setup.

It is not safe and you'll be taking not only yours, but your families life in your own hands (not to mention anyone else on the road near you) trying to drag that thing down the road.

[Oaklevel]

Please call e trailer and talk to them they have great customer service reps.......................... What their add says is the 3500 lb hitch capacity is rated at 5000 or 6000 lbs with a weight distribution hitch........... The hitch NOT the vans capacity......... The vans capacity does not change from 3500..........

Just curious where did you come up with the van having a 3500 capacity??

[srea1957]

The 3,500 pound rating is from the owner's manual. Thank all of you for the excellent analyses that you all offered - lots to digest and think about.

[bikendan]

Originally Posted by srea1957

The 3,500 pound rating is from the owner's manual. Thank all of you for the excellent analyses that you all offered - lots to digest and think about.

That 3500lbs number is only if the minivan has the factory tow package.
You would have duplicate it exactly, if yours didn't have it, to get the same towing capacity.

[JohnD10]

Originally Posted by srea1957

The 3,500 pound rating is from the owner's manual. Thank all of you for the excellent analyses that you all offered - lots to digest and think about.

The owners manual does not give you the correct numbers for YOUR vehicle.

Those numbers will be printed on a label inside the door jam of the drivers door for your EXACT vehicle for the accessories that came with your EXACT vehicle from the factory.

Those are the only numbers you can go by...

If you can take a photo of that label we'll be able to get you squared away!

But it sounds like you've already made up your mind and are going to buy that trailer and tow it anyway.

[B and B]

Originally Posted by srea1957

According to Etrailer.com, using a load leveler (weight distribution) hitch raises the towing capacity from 3,500 pounds to 5,000 pounds, and the maximum tongue weight from 350 pounds to 500 pounds. So it looks like I'm OK using a load leveler (weight distribution) hitch to tow my Flagstaff 25D trailer with my Chevy Venture van. See:
https://www.etrailer.com/hitch-2005_...et_Venture.htm
Any thoughts?

NO, you can not make payload with a hitch or add on crap. I owned the Pontiac variant of that van, I would not tow utility trailer with feathers. Barely could carry 5 scouts to camp!

[JohnD10]

Originally Posted by B and B

NO, you can not make payload with a hitch or add on crap. I owned the Pontiac variant of that van, I would not tow utility trailer with feathers. Barely could carry 5 scouts to camp!

Any dealer that would allow that combo off of their lot should be arrested.

And any hitch shop that would put a bigger hitch on that vehicle to handle that TT...same thing!

[srea1957]

I guess the old axiom applies here - try it before you buy it.

[DieselDrax]

Originally Posted by srea1957

I guess the old axiom applies here - try it before you buy it.

No, don’t even try it. Find something within the van’s limits of get a different vehicle to tow with.

[Hersbird]

You don't have to spend a lot to find an adequate tow vehicle for that camper while still maintaining passenger seating. I'd look at 2000-2005 Suburbans or Yukon XL. Even the 1500 versions with the 5.3 V8 should be enough but a 2500 or 3/4 ton with the 6.0 V8 would be gravy. In between a Denali package or Escalade will get the 6.0 motor for more power but without the heavier duty suspension of the 3/4 ton 2500 versions. There are lots from $3000-$5000 around here. There are some minivans I might consider trying that with, but not the Venture. You would spend more for a newer minivan that might be at the ragged edge of towing that, or spend less on a Suburban that will do it with ease.

[srea1957]

I found a 2005 Chevrolet Suburban 1500 LT RWD with 155,000 miles near me for $6,000, factory tow package included. Sounds good?

[ronheater70]

SO my thoughts are these. To comftorably tow its max tow rating, even if you can somehow manage to do it without going over your paylod number, you need oerfect condtions in my opinion.

I know my 2013 f 150 ecoboost I bought new with had a 9500 pound towing capacity.. I towed about 7K with it (probably a little less) and wasnt happy with performance.
My 2016 ram 2500 6.4 4x4 had a 12.5K towing limit, I towed 10K with it and wasnt happy.. Sure on Flat ground, or extremely moderat inclines it was fine, but I found myself staying away from areas I wanted to explore because they were in the mountains.

Im going through this scenario with my son and his grand cherokee now. He has a 5K towing limit, but I have driven it, and im not personally happy with the performance out of the 3.6 v6 unloaded.. I dont think he really needs anything more than a 3K-3250 camper, and even then I imagine it struggling a lot.

[Hersbird]

Originally Posted by srea1957

I found a 2005 Chevrolet Suburban 1500 LT RWD with 155,000 miles near me for $6,000, factory tow package included. Sounds good?

Plug it all into KBB.COM don't pay more than that, try to get it for about $1000 off that if it isn't a perfect cream puff. If it isn't 4wd I'd say they are high priced on that. I don't know where you are, but here in Montana a 13year old 2wd Suburban is worth probably 1/2 what a 4wd would bring.