Tow Ratings

[TheWolfPaq82]

Originally Posted by kfergiez

Nope nope nope... This is a big misunderstanding people have. You can NEVER increase the weight capacity of a vehicle by simply adding a WDH. The van's capacity is fixed, and cannot be changed by adding a WDH or stronger tow hitch.

YES, it does redistribute weight to eliminate the sag of the rear end, but that's it. The weight is still there, and it's a lot more than what your vehicle can safely tow.

Funny ? My owners manual on my GMC 2500HD show TWO DIFFERENT towing numbers. One for bumper hitch and one for WDH. Guess what ?? the numbers are higher with the WDH as compared to straight bumper hitch.

[NJKris]

WolfPaq, if you look at towing guide lines, trucks that are built to take advantage of the WDH usually have those 2 different limits you mentioned. There seems to be a cut off though. I noticed most of the mid sized SUV's in the Ford guidelines at least, do NOT have two different figures. They seem to cut off at 5000/500. That is the limit, period, regardless of WDH used or not.

[clarkbre]

Originally Posted by NJKris

WolfPaq, if you look at towing guide lines, trucks that are built to take advantage of the WDH usually have those 2 different limits you mentioned. There seems to be a cut off though. I noticed most of the mid sized SUV's in the Ford guidelines at least, do NOT have two different figures. They seem to cut off at 5000/500. That is the limit, period, regardless of WDH used or not.

Like the 2017 Ford Explorer?

It does have WDH and non-WDH ratings:



And, ours is completely wired with the flat 4 and 7 pin trailer connectors; however, it does not have a brake controller.

[DieselDrax]

Originally Posted by TheWolfPaq82

Funny ? My owners manual on my GMC 2500HD show TWO DIFFERENT towing numbers. One for bumper hitch and one for WDH. Guess what ?? the numbers are higher with the WDH as compared to straight bumper hitch.

Originally Posted by NJKris

WolfPaq, if you look at towing guide lines, trucks that are built to take advantage of the WDH usually have those 2 different limits you mentioned. There seems to be a cut off though. I noticed most of the mid sized SUV's in the Ford guidelines at least, do NOT have two different figures. They seem to cut off at 5000/500. That is the limit, period, regardless of WDH used or not.

Originally Posted by clarkbre

Like the 2017 Ford Explorer?

It does have WDH and non-WDH ratings:

Attachment 190992

And, ours is completely wired with the flat 4 and 7 pin trailer connectors; however, it does not have a brake controller.

You folks are getting off into the weeds and missing the original point.

The OP thought they could install a DIFFERENT hitch that had WDH/non-WDH ratings listed on the HITCH and that would increase the VEHICLE tow capacity.

Meaning they thought their 3,500LB max tow was because of the hitch itself and that replacing the hitch would increase their tow capacity. That's not the case for them.

[JohnD10]

Aren't most of the front wheel drive soccer mom mini vans today built with unibodies without frames?

I don't know...that's why I'm askin'!

[pgandw]

All minivans since the original Chrysler in the late '80s have been unibodies (there may have been a couple of exceptions with early Ford & Chevy minivans). All Hondas including their Ridgeline truck and SUVs are unibody. 75%+ of SUVs today are unibody.

A unibody can actually be stronger than a body on frame. It just depends on the engineering.

Downside of unibody is that once the body isn't uni, it loses a lot of strength and rigidity. My daughter's Toyota Corolla had to be totaled because a truck backed into the drivers door hard, bending and warping the body behind the door. By the time new body pieces were properly spliced in, the cost to repair went over the significant value of the car.

Today's SUVs and minivans are designed with a particular tow rating in mind. For minivans, the standard is 3,500lbs. The mid-size SUVs have crept up to higher ratings - some are now at 5,000lbs (my wife's 2018 Kia Sorento).

And payloads of minivans have always been in the 1200lb range - they are typically supposed to carry 6 adults plus 1-2 kids.

The big problem (more than towing weight) with minivans and mid-size SUVs that is seldom discussed is frontal area. A typical 3.5L 250HP V-6 just doesn't have the guts to tow a 70-80 sq ft (normal frontal area of TT) barn door at 65MPH without winding it to very high RPMs. The typical V-6 does pretty well with the 30-40 sq ft frontal area of a pop-up or A-frame - assuming decent gearing and low end torque.

just my experiences
Fred W
2019 Flagstaff T21TBHW A-frame
2008 Hyundai Entourage minivan
camping Colorado and adjacent states one weekend at a time

[JohnD10]

What I'm wondering is how a WDH hitch setup can push the weight through a uni-body to the front axle?

[clarkbre]

Originally Posted by JohnD10

What I'm wondering is how a WDH hitch setup can push the weight through a uni-body to the front axle?

Because whether a unibody or body on frame, the rear axle still acts as a fulcrum point when tongue weight is applied.

[pgandw]

Originally Posted by JohnD10

What I'm wondering is how a WDH hitch setup can push the weight through a uni-body to the front axle?

Think of a unibody as a single giant box frame instead of a small frame onto which a body is bolted. Unibody vehicles have subframes and beams added to strengthen the body in key stress areas.

A 4 point mount receiver is needed for WDH regardless of unibody or body-on-frame. The 4 mount points allow the WDH receiver to apply a torque to the vehicle, pivoting the vehicle around the rear axle. This torque increases the weight on the steer wheels, and removes some from the rear wheels. On a minivan, the receiver bolts onto pre-drilled holes in the rear subframe.

Where the receiver mounts are located in relationship to the rear axle affects the amount of torque applied due to the length of the lever arm from the receiver mounts to the rear axle. Equalizer WDHs need fewer washers (less angling of the hitch head) when the lever arm is long (rear wheels are further forward). Minivans fall into this category, as the body extends well past the rear wheels.

None of this really affects the OP's attempt to pull a full height TT with a minivan - as all have told him, it's not really a good idea. But I hope it helps your understanding.

Fred W
2019 Flagstaff T21TBHW A-frame
2008 Hyundai Entourage (minivan)
camping Colorado and adjacent states one weekend at a time

[Boomerweps]

Me thinks the confusion exists for some that a WDH raises a tow vehicle's tow capacity.
Of course it does not.
What a WDH does is allow use of the vehicle's maximum tow capacity. NOT using a WDH limits the vehicle by how much can be carried with all the weight on the the hitch and the small frame section it is attached to.

[Hersbird]

There is a FWD unibody van with a V6 rated at 4680 pounds of payload and 6800 pounds towing. You just have to know how to shop.

[bikendan]

Originally Posted by Hersbird

There is a FWD unibody van with a V6 rated at 4680 pounds of payload and 6800 pounds towing. You just have to know how to shop.

Please post what van this is.
I'm guessing a Sprinter or Ford commercial van.

[DieselDrax]

Originally Posted by Hersbird

There is a FWD unibody van with a V6 rated at 4680 pounds of payload and 6800 pounds towing. You just have to know how to shop.

The only FWD van I know of in the US that comes close to that is the Ram ProMaster which has a max payload of 4,440LB and max tow of 5,100LB.

If you're referring to the Ford Transit they are only selling RWD models in the US and those list nearly the same numbers as you're quoting so I would assume that's what you were talking about. FWD models are Europe-only.

[DieselDrax]

Originally Posted by bikendan

Please post what van this is.
I'm guessing a Sprinter or Ford commercial van.

See my post above. Both the Sprinter and Ford Transit are RWD-based in the US.

[Hersbird]

I don't see it on the Ram web page yet, but a few other places have said the 2019 Promaster has a 30% increase in towing capacity with a new trailer tow package putting it at 6800 pounds and it's actually 4680 pounds of payload now with the right 3500.
https://www.torquenews.com/3768/ram-...-promaster-van

[Hersbird]

now if they would just make the front end look like this...

[DieselDrax]

Originally Posted by Hersbird

I don't see it on the Ram web page yet, but a few other places have said the 2019 Promaster has a 30% increase in towing capacity with a new trailer tow package putting it at 6800 pounds and it's actually 4680 pounds of payload now with the right 3500.
https://www.torquenews.com/3768/ram-...-promaster-van

I see the 4,680LB payload but it still shows max tow as 5,100LB for 2019.

https://www.ramtrucks.com/2019/ram-p...apability.html

[JohnD10]

Originally Posted by Hersbird

now if they would just make the front end look like this...

I personally think those are ugly...actually hideous looking!

They look like something out of the newish anamae (I know, not spelled right) cartoons!

Wish they would go back to the standard Dodge Ram van look of 15-20 years ago...

Now those were good lookin'!

[rockfordroo]

Originally Posted by kfergiez

Nope nope nope... This is a big misunderstanding people have. You can NEVER increase the weight capacity of a vehicle by simply adding a WDH. The van's capacity is fixed, and cannot be changed by adding a WDH or stronger tow hitch.

YES, it does redistribute weight to eliminate the sag of the rear end, but that's it. The weight is still there, and it's a lot more than what your vehicle can safely tow.

Originally Posted by TheWolfPaq82

Funny ? My owners manual on my GMC 2500HD show TWO DIFFERENT towing numbers. One for bumper hitch and one for WDH. Guess what ?? the numbers are higher with the WDH as compared to straight bumper hitch.

Look again, Wolf. Your manual is talking about TONGUE WEIGHT not "towing capacity." The towing capacity is a single number for any particular version of the truck; it's found in the table starting on page 333 (of my Silverado manual). In addition, starting on page 274 (of my manual), they discuss payload, and again, it's only one number (the one on the sticker on your drivers door frame). My 2009 Silverado 1500 manual is similar.

SO: Yes, you can improve your tongue weight with a WDH, but you can't change payload or towing capacity; at least for the Chevy Silverado/GMC Sierra.

[JohnD10]

Your manual is talking about TONGUE WEIGHT not "towing capacity." The towing capacity is a single number for any particular version of the truck; it's found in the table starting on page 333 (of my Silverado manual). In addition, starting on page 274 (of my manual), they discuss payload, and again, it's only one number (the one on the sticker on your drivers door frame). My 2009 Silverado 1500 manual is similar.

SO: Yes, you can improve your tongue weight with a WDH, but you can't change payload or towing capacity; at least for the Chevy Silverado/GMC Sierra.

I wonder, too, if sometimes people get confused when they see different two ratings on the same truck...one for TT's and the other for 5'vers?

Obviously not for the minivan in question, however...