towing ?

[coach1959]

Hello,
I'm looking at buying a 2018 micro light 21FBS trailer. I have a 16 F150 with towing package. My question is I want to carry a ATV in the truck . my payload is 1914lbs and I figure completely loaded I will be at about 1300lbs including ATV, me and about 250lbs of misc. gear but not including tongue weight or dist hitch. The Trailers loaded max is 5800lbs. I'm thinking about adding air bags but not sure if they would be needed any help would be much appreciated.

[HangDiver]

Not positive but I'm pretty sure that you (the driver) and a full tank of gas does not count against payload. Others more knowledgable than I will surely chime in.

[bikendan]

Yes, driver counts toward payload capacity.

Payload sticker states:
"Occupants and cargo should not exceed xxxxlbs)
Driver is considered one of the occupants.

A 150lbs driver and full fuel tank is for TOWING capacity.

With 100lbs for WDH and loaded tongue weight, you'll most certainly be over payload.

Air bags do NOTHING for payload.
All they do is level the vehicle.

[doc73]

Will you be able to even get the atv into the bed, then get the tailgate up? I would think it would be a not so good idea to leave the trailgate down for towing.

I would also think it would be a little much, but get the real numbers and see.

[coach1959]

Thanks guys I do have a razorback rack which has my ATV front tires up at rail height and my tailgate does close plus I can store items under it. I figured that at 1914lbs max payload I would be right at the max payload.

ATV -800lbs
misc. weight -250
me - 250 (ouch)
Dist. hitch - 100lbs
tongue weight - 450lbs
That would put me right at max payload. Just wondering if that's a good idea or not.
Max trailer weight is 5800lbs but being it's just me I think I would be around 5200lbs loaded weight. I do want to feel safe driving it as I live in Denver and most of my camping & riding would be in the Rocky Mountains.
I just can't find a toy hauler that I like.

[doc73]

Originally Posted by coach1959

Thanks guys I do have a razorback rack which has my ATV front tires up at rail height and my tailgate does close plus I can store items under it. I figured that at 1914lbs max payload I would be right at the max payload.

ATV -800lbs
misc. weight -250
me - 250 (ouch)
Dist. hitch - 100lbs
tongue weight - 450lbs
That would put me right at max payload. Just wondering if that's a good idea or not.
Max trailer weight is 5800lbs but being it's just me I think I would be around 5200lbs loaded weight. I do want to feel safe driving it as I live in Denver and most of my camping & riding would be in the Rocky Mountains.
I just can't find a toy hauler that I like.

Do I think you will die because you are at payload.. No.. But I do not know if it might be a bit hard on the truck.

[HangDiver]

Originally Posted by bikendan

Yes, driver counts toward payload capacity. A 150lbs driver and full fuel tank is for TOWING capacity.

Thanks bikendan for correcting that.

Rich J.

[rockfordroo]

Originally Posted by coach1959

Thanks guys I do have a razorback rack which has my ATV front tires up at rail height and my tailgate does close plus I can store items under it. I figured that at 1914lbs max payload I would be right at the max payload.

ATV -800lbs
misc. weight -250
me - 250 (ouch)
Dist. hitch - 100lbs
tongue weight - 450lbs
That would put me right at max payload. Just wondering if that's a good idea or not.
Max trailer weight is 5800lbs but being it's just me I think I would be around 5200lbs loaded weight. I do want to feel safe driving it as I live in Denver and most of my camping & riding would be in the Rocky Mountains.
I just can't find a toy hauler that I like.

Your tongue weight is going to be more than 450 lbs. The FR site lists the tongue weight for the Micro Lite 21FBRS (which is DRY) as 446 lbs, which is 10.5% of the UVW. So when you add LP tanks, battery and STUFF in your trailer, the tongue weight is going to be more than 450 lbs.

It looks like most storage is ahead of the axles, as is the battery and LP tanks, so I'm guessing the tongue weight will end up being more than 10.5% of actual weight.

How much more? You'll never know until you buy it, load it, and weigh it.

So I concur - you WILL be over on payload.

[FrankMor]

Full LP tanks are part of dry weight, the battery is not. This is Federal regulation.

Frank

[clarkbre]

I'd verify that. Maybe empty tanks.

For the OP, before you even buy, put your truck, atv, full tank of gas and you on the scale. Subtract the 2 axle weights from the gvwr that's listed in your door. That will give you the useable payload for your weight distribution hitch and tongue weight.

[coach1959]

Ok thanks everyone for the help.

[bikendan]

Yep coach, you're making a big newbie mistake by using bogus "dry" numbers. None of those numbers are real world numbers.

Once you add batteries, water and cargo to the trailer, you could easily be at or over a 600lbs tongue weight.

12% of your 5200lbs estimate, would be a 624lbs tongue weight.

[Scrapper]

Originally Posted by FrankMor

Full LP tanks are part of dry weight, the battery is not. This is Federal regulation.

Frank

FrankMor, I believe your statement is incorrect. Nowhere is it mandatory to have LP on your trailer. If anything it should be the battery that should be part of the dry weight as every 5er and almost every TT needs the brakes powered by the battery in case of becoming disconnected from the TV.

[FrankMor]

Originally Posted by Scrapper

FrankMor, I believe your statement is incorrect. Nowhere is it mandatory to have LP on your trailer. If anything it should be the battery that should be part of the dry weight as every 5er and almost every TT needs the brakes powered by the battery in case of becoming disconnected from the TV.

If the TT, FW or MH has LP tanks, then when they weigh it for the sticker info, they must add the weight of the LP it holds. The same with MH fuel tanks.

Frank

[bikendan]

I believe there was a change a few years ago, regarding propane tanks.

Previously the factory UVW sticker weight only included the weight of the empty tanks.
Then it changed to include filled tanks. I assume that this changed because the propane weight would be a known standard amount, based on capacity.

[rockfordroo]

From the 2018 Roo/Mini Lite brochure:

UVW (Unloaded Vehicle Weight)* - is the typical weight of the unit as manufactured at the factory. It includes all weight at the unit’s axle(s) and tongue or pin and LP Gas. The UVW does not include cargo, fresh potable water, additional optional equipment or dealer installed accessories.

*Estimated average based on standard build optional equipment.

I understand the battery is a dealer-installed component.

So I was incorrect wrt LP gas in post #8.

[67L48]

Very interesting. I always thought LP and the LP tanks were not included in dry weight. I think that's just over 100 lbs I get back for 2x 30 lb tanks. Nice! I appreciate you guys taking the time to look the stuff up and post the answers. Good stuff.

You don't technically need a full-size battery to operate the safety brakes. There are little batteries that you can get that will fill this need, though I have no experience with them.

But, why are we talking about any of this? I think the OP was probably interested in some variant of this:

[raspivey]

Originally Posted by bikendan

Yep coach, you're making a big newbie mistake by using bogus "dry" numbers. None of those numbers are real world numbers.

Once you add batteries, water and cargo to the trailer, you could easily be at or over a 600lbs tongue weight.

12% of your 5200lbs estimate, would be a 624lbs tongue weight.

I had the Rockwood version of that trailer. I ran about 4700 - 5000 lbs. and about 725 lbs up front (but that was with two batteries).

[thebrakeman]

Don't see 21FBS on forestriver/flagstaff site, but 21FBRS is just under that 5800 lbs GVWR, so I assume that's it.
Keep in mind, this is a moderate sized TT, that does not have a lot of storage capacity. It has 1475 cargo capacity, but you'll never use all of that. For this size trailer, 800 lbs over dry weight is a good estimate for your ACTUAL loaded weight, including factory/dealer options, and your gear (IN the trailer).
4251 (dry) + 800 = 5051 est loaded
5051 * 12% = 606 estimated TW
+ATV -800lbs
+misc. weight -250
+me - 250 (ouch)
+Dist. hitch - 100lbs

= 2006 lbs, about 100 lbs over 1914 payload

Your best bet would be to put as much of that 250 lbs misc gear inside the camper, balanced out. 200 lbs moved from the truck puts you 100 lbs UNDER payload limit. That 200 lbs in the camper only translates to 24 lbs added to TW (12%).