Towing 22' BH Grey Wolf Select

[wrangler]

Hi all. Just joined FRF. First all, thanks for the welcome. Just picked up a 2013 Grey Wolf Select 22BH. Might need some number help.

Trailer specs.
GVWR-- 7590 lbs.
Dry weight--- 4300 lbs.
GAWR--- Front-3500lbs.
Rear- 3500 lbs.
Not to exceed cargo- 3252 lbs.

Truck specs.

2009 F150 XLT. 5.4 litre, Tow package, 6 speed auto, tow haul mode, factory brake controller. 275 70/R18 LT tires, tow mirrors, 36 gal. tank. Equilizer hitch with 4 point sway.

Weighed truck with me (150lbs.) half tank of gas. 5974 lbs.
GVWR- 7200 lbs. Door sticker
Cargo- 1324 lbs. Door sticker
GCWR- 15,500 lbs.
Tow capacity- 9700 lbs.

Truck will be carrying around 650 lbs. with 2 people and other stuff including hitch. When I had the hitch set up trailer had two filled 20 lb. propane tanks and two 6 volt batteries. When they lowered the TT on hitch the rear dropped 1/2 inch. before WDH was set up. The TT brochure says the TT has 547 lbs. dry hitch weight. I get all mixed up with the numbers but I want to make sure I can tow safe and is the truck compatible with this trailer. Sorry if I am long winded and thanks for any help.

[kandl]

Wrangler, the numbers look ok but for your own peace of mind, load up the TT as if eastward-ho and go weigh it - don't rely on the spec's provided by FR. To wit: the difference between your TT's dry weight and its GVWR is pretty wild - things do add up but I'd be reluctant to load a ton and a half of RVing essentials into your rig. We've been pulling a much larger TT with a half-ton sheep truck for many miles/kms and have had no issues aside from the hit at the pump - it's a gas thing.

[prof_fate]

Yout TT is lighter than mine but overall numbers are close to what I have.
Figure most of us put 1000lb of stuff in the TT so the 4300 will be closer to 5300. Is there a yellow sticker on the storm door showing the TT weight as it left the factory? Add 1000 to that.
Figure 13% of that as tongue weight on the TV and that is part of your payload capacity - which will be your limiting factor most likely.

7200-(5974+500 (otehr people in truck)) leaves you 726lbs of payload for tongue weight.

Gives you about 5600 lb of trailer capacity to keep tongue weight within specs. I'm in the same position with my silverado - I can put another 1000lbs in the TT but if my kids grow much more I'll be over my GVWR.

[wrangler]

Thanks for the info. The yellow sticker on my storm door says net weight is 4300 lbs. with cargo not to exceed 3252 lbs.

[Dave_Monica]

If there's any gear that could be carried in the camper instead of the truck, it would be to your advantage. As with any truck short of a 1 ton dually, you'll reach payload limit long before the max towing limit.

Dave

[wrangler]

I was adding up cargo in bed of truck including 2 people, hitch, fuel and it came to around 675 lbs. My cargo sticker says not to exceed 1324 lbs. What other numbers do I need to make sure I am not over. Thanks.

[ependydad]

Originally Posted by prof_fate

Yout TT is lighter than mine but overall numbers are close to what I have.
Figure most of us put 1000lb of stuff in the TT so the 4300 will be closer to 5300. Is there a yellow sticker on the storm door showing the TT weight as it left the factory? Add 1000 to that.
Figure 13% of that as tongue weight on the TV and that is part of your payload capacity - which will be your limiting factor most likely.

7200-(5974+500 (otehr people in truck)) leaves you 726lbs of payload for tongue weight.

Gives you about 5600 lb of trailer capacity to keep tongue weight within specs. I'm in the same position with my silverado - I can put another 1000lbs in the TT but if my kids grow much more I'll be over my GVWR.

prof_fate pretty well hit the nail on the head.

You're actual available payload on the truck is going to be:
- The truck's GVWR (7200)
- Minus the weight of the truck (5974)
- Minus all occupants + cargo carried in the truck (500 pounds (adjusted for your weight))

Leaves you with about 726 pounds remaining.

Bear in mind, you said you only had a 1/2 tank of fuel. I think gas weighs 7 or 8 pounds per gallon.


Now, to figure out the tongue weight for your TT. It's going to be approximately 10%-15% of the actual weight of the trailer itself. Given a yellow sticker dry weight of 4,300 pounds and 1,000 pounds of stuff loaded in - you're looking at 5,300 pounds. That means that your tongue weight is going to be in the range of 530-795 pounds. Depending on how much you load into the camper and where the weight is loaded, you're likely going to butt right up against the truck's GVWR if not being over.

That said, I think the real question is - does being over GVWR instantly make you unsafe? There are many folks on the forum that are towing at and over their GVWR. They generally will watch their tire loading and rear axle limits to determine if they're acceptably overweight or not.

Your choice and your call, obviously.

My personal opinion is that I want to stay within all of the published ratings of my truck. Even if other folks consider them "lawyer stickers".

[ependydad]

Originally Posted by wrangler

I was adding up cargo in bed of truck including 2 people, hitch, fuel and it came to around 675 lbs. My cargo sticker says not to exceed 1324 lbs. What other numbers do I need to make sure I am not over. Thanks.

For me and my vehicle, I don't want to exceed any ratings.

However, for those that do decide they'll exceed their truck's GVWR, they choose to limit themselves to the rear axle weight rating and the load capacity on the rear tires.

You'll only be able to get those weights by taking the camper to the truck scales. Might I suggest, if you do - pack everything like you were going camping (all passengers, all gear, etc.).

[prof_fate]

Hard to pin down where the wt max figures come from. Engineers saying this is the most the components can handle, can handle for the warranty period, can handle without some other issue (handling, braking, emergency maneuvers, overheating of eng/trans), for 'maximum' conditions (hills, temps hot or cold, bumps in the road).

Yes, on a 70F day in a flat part of kansas without concern for merging speed any truck can tow/carry a whole lot more than they're rated for - just look at the tundra that pulled the space shuttle. At 2mph. And i'm sure it wasn't braking teh load or had any tongue weight. And it only had to last a mile, if that.

Now say it's 98F and 80% humidity, you want the A/C on, you're on a 7% grade up, or down, and hit a pothole or a 4x4 in the road - or swerve to miss such a thing. Now the load moves more to one rear spring and BANG, something said that's enough for me and you end up splayed across the road like a deer hit by a tractor trailer.

Point is - you don't know. If you stay within the published numbers you should be good - and you have recourse perhaps if things do fail.

I pulled up a wt calc for trailers and it said to maintain a margin - and suggested 20%!

[wrangler]

Thanks for all your info. Where should most of cargo be loaded in TT. Front, middle or back or one side. It seems that all the weight in the unloaded TT is on one side. Hot water tank, kitchen sink, counter with up and down cabinets, microwave, stove, oven, fridge, freezer, pantry, sink, medicine cabinet, tub, shower. The other side is 2 bunks and dinette table. Queen bed in front. How is trailer balanced when most of weight is on one side. Is it better to load everything in TT and have truck empty except me and my wife and fuel or are you better with a 3/4 ton truck. Hope I am not asking to many questions. Next spring we will be travelling to Red Deer Alberta for a trade show and will have product in TT.

[ependydad]

Ideally for side-to-side weight: you want to load it so that you have equal weight distribution on both sides and both axles. But, like you pointed out - you're likely to be heavier on one side due to appliances and trailer design. AND- the few CAT Scales that I've been to wouldn't allow you to weigh individual sides anyway.

For front to back weight, you want to load things so that you have approximately 10%-15% of the loaded trailers weight as tongue weight. That may mean loading things front, middle or rear - it really comes down to your stuff. And, you can only really find that out by going to a scale (CAT Scale or quarry or dump or something like that) and getting weighed. If you're going to go that route, we can provide guidance on what weights to get and how to evaluate those numbers.

Since you're likely at the limits of your trucks rated carrying capacity (GVWR), you *do* want as much stuff in the trailer as possible (assuming you don't exceed *it's* cargo carrying capacity- but at 3,000+ pounds.. you'd have to really try!) and as little stuff in the truck, truck bed and on the truck roof as possible.

The benefit to a 3/4-ton truck or even a properly optioned newer F-150 EcoBoost is that they have higher payload capacities. You said your door sticker on the truck showed a cargo capacity of 1324 lbs. A 3/4-ton (or newer & properly optioned F-150) will have payload capacities at or over 2,000 pounds.

Remember, this truck payload capacity has to handle your weight, wife's weight, hitch, anything you add to the truck (topper, rolltop cover, bed liner, etc.) and anything you carry in or on the truck (bikes, firewood, cooler(s), etc.). 1,300 pounds gets eaten up pretty quick. Myself, my wife, my kids, my truck add-ons, my hitch and all setup weigh close to 1,200 pounds alone. That's before my camper's pin weight gets added.

[wrangler]

Thanks a bunch. What you and other members have said is load everything up and go get weighed. Then we can look at the numbers.

[ependydad]

Originally Posted by wrangler

Thanks a bunch. What you and other members have said is load everything up and go get weighed. Then we can look at the numbers.

Yep. Here are the 3 weightings you need to do.

[wrangler]

Before I load up trailer and weigh it another question. Is it better and all right to load everything in the TT and have the TV empty except for 2 people and a tank of fuel. I don't think I mentioned my trucks axle weights. Front GAWR-- 3750 lbs. Rear--- 4000 lbs. Tire rating is 3640 lbs. per tire. Thanks.