Towing 5th Wheel - Violent Shaking Incident

[Tuckers Truckers]

Newbie here. On our second "shake-down" trip, we encountered a disturbing vibration that had the fifth wheel rolling from side to side at what seem like 10° each way. I was going up a slight incline (WB I-196 in Grand Rapids, MI) and a slight curve to the left with cruise control set on 65 mph. I immediately cut the cruise control (with the cancel button) and let the vehicle slow with no braking. It took about 10-15 seconds for the rolling/shaking to stop. DW was visibly shaken by this incident . . . me too!

I spoke with several fifth wheelers at the RV park and no one had ever encountered this. One of these was a long-haul trucker and he said he never uses cruise control so he can "feel" his rig better.

On the return trip I didn't use the cruise and indeed it was a better towing "feel". Still, near the end of our return, a little side-to-side rolling motion started and by dropping off the accelerator and tapping my brake control lightly a couple of times the rolling subsided. No curve, no cruise, but a slight incline.

We have a Lippert Turning Point pinbox with a Reese 15K Pro Series Hitch.

Has anyone encountered this? What makes it occur and how do I keep it from happening. If I can't solve this, DW (and myself!) won't be continuing.

Thanks!

[Tuckers Truckers]

Sorry, for some reason, my signature did not work.

I have a Ford F250 XLT SuperCab with 6.2L Gas and a 6'-8" bed.

The Fifth Wheel is a Cherokee Arctic Wolf 265DBH8.

[007matman]

Death wobble? How many miles on the truck? Was it the steering wheel that was shaking?

[BooBoo23]

Sounds like you are tail heavy causing sway. Have you ever checked to see how much weight you have on the pin.

[Oakman]

Sounds like something is seriously wrong with your hitch or pin box. Have someone competent inspect both.

[NMWildcat]

So was your fiver actually rolling/rocking side to side, or was the tail swaying while fiver was level?

Can't imagine what would cause rolling. Maybe extremely one sided loading or spring problem. I just don't see hitch/kingpin causing either.

Swaying I could see if you are tail heavy.

Curiouser and curiouser.

[NMWildcat]

Originally Posted by 007matman

Death wobble? How many miles on the truck? Was it the steering wheel that was shaking?

X2. Does sound like the infamous Ford death wobble. And I suppose it could make the trailer sway.

[Tuckers Truckers]

The trailer was rocking side-to-side. I could see the hitch "rolling".

Ford "death wobble"?

I don't believe it was tail heavy, nor side loaded. I try to pay attention to this when loading. We had a laundry basket with clothes on the bed in back. Also several gallons of water in the pantry under the TV; but on the return trip we made certain not to load the back and all the water was used.

Steering wheel was not shaking. The RV movement through the hitch was pulling the truck into the rolling motion (I thought we might roll). Dropping the accelerator and holding the steering straight got us out of this.

1800 miles on the truck. I did not tow until we reach 1000 miles.

Following are my calcs for the truck/hitch weight (in lbs.):

GVWR 10,000
Less Truck Weight 6,027
Remaining for Hitch and Truck Load 3,973

Less Hitch Weight of RV (unloaded) 1,359
Remaining for Truck Load 2,614
less (2) People + Dog 400
Spare Capacity 2,214

The Lippert Turning Point pin box moves the rotate 22" behind the hitch center. The king pin does not rotate in the hitch.

[NMWildcat]

Wow. Never even heard of anything like that. I would take it back to the dealer and have them check all the measurements for hitch install, including center. Also check frame/axle alignment and all wheels/hubs/suspension. Check weights also. And if the dealer won't do it, find an independent who will and have them pre-approve the cost through FR.

It's hard to get fifth wheels to sway, much less rock and roll. There's a joke there somewhere

As far as the hitch, it's Lipperts version of the sidewinder/revolution. Lots of us use the sidewinder with no problems. So it's hard to imagine that is where the problem lies. You could always lock out the kingpin (remove wedge and use lockout bolts) and see if that makes a difference, but I don't see how.

Let us know!

[NMWildcat]

Oh, Google Ford Death Wobble and you will have lots of reading. It's a violent vibration in the front end that can be felt in the steering wheel (actually the whole truck).

My brother has had several trucks that had that even at low miles. Only way he could fix it was replace the whole front end.

[racer4]

It looks like your weights are not actual numbers from weighing on a scale. CAT scales at truck stops can be used to weigh the truck and trailer. Particularly important is the weight the trailer's pin box puts on the hitch. If that is too low, as a percentage of trailer's total weight, it can lead to trailer sway. I know you said "roll", not sway, but it should be checked.


If a trailer is swaying side to side, apply the trailer brakes only using the trailer brake controller. That should pull the trailer back into line behind the truck. This may not apply to your description of rolling, but is good to know.


Did any of the trailer's tanks have water in them? Is anything mounted at the rear of the trailer?


Definitely have the dealer check things over.

[B and B]

Towing level is important. Also sounds like not enough pin weight. You need scaled weights from your setup.

[Villagerjjm]

From what you are describing, it sounds like it is a sympathetic vibration that increases in intensity through time, much like feedback from an amplifier vibrating a guitar string. I would look at the brakes and control mechanism to see if the electronic anti-sway is alternating left / right, or if the brakes in the TT are not evenly engaging. I have anti sway built into my TV, and an installed brake controller for the brakes on the TT which also has anti sway control. I often wonder if the two systems could work against each other. Although I have never encountered the situation that is being described, I have seen videos of similar situations. I check brake function the same way I check tire condition and lug nuts at every stop before pulling back into heavy traffic.

[Crusadernoob]

Never heard of this but I would be checking for spring bolts, spring hangers, broken spring, hitch, pretty much all the suspension and hitch, it's your lucky day, y'all made it home, it's NOT normal, any good truck shop can find the problem.

[donniedu]

Originally Posted by Tuckers Truckers

The trailer was rocking side-to-side. I could see the hitch "rolling".

Ford "death wobble"?

I don't believe it was tail heavy, nor side loaded. I try to pay attention to this when loading. We had a laundry basket with clothes on the bed in back. Also several gallons of water in the pantry under the TV; but on the return trip we made certain not to load the back and all the water was used.

Steering wheel was not shaking. The RV movement through the hitch was pulling the truck into the rolling motion (I thought we might roll). Dropping the accelerator and holding the steering straight got us out of this.

1800 miles on the truck. I did not tow until we reach 1000 miles.

Following are my calcs for the truck/hitch weight (in lbs.):

GVWR 10,000
Less Truck Weight 6,027
Remaining for Hitch and Truck Load 3,973

Less Hitch Weight of RV (unloaded) 1,359
Remaining for Truck Load 2,614
less (2) People + Dog 400
Spare Capacity 2,214

The Lippert Turning Point pin box moves the rotate 22" behind the hitch center. The king pin does not rotate in the hitch.

Im guessing those are brochure numbers and not actual scaled weights?
You really really, I cannot emphasize enough that you really need to get your rig loaded across a set of scales. Get truck, and combo weights and look again. Pay attention to all axle weights.

[5picker]

Originally Posted by Crusadernoob

Never heard of this but I would be checking for spring bolts, spring hangers, broken spring, hitch, pretty much all the suspension and hitch, it's your lucky day, y'all made it home, it's NOT normal, any good truck shop can find the problem.

I agree with this.

If you have traditional spring suspension you may have flipped the center equalizer, lost a spring bolt or even broke a spring ply.

What you have described is very unlike the way a 5th wheel tows, even with the rotating pin box.

To me it sounds like the axles are somehow moving when you load them on a curve or incline. Even with a lost bolt or broken ply, they'll track pretty straight when dragging it in a straight line.

[5er_tom]

My 2012 Ford experienced Death Wobble several times, but never with the fiver attached. The dealer swears (yes, his lips were moving) no death Wobble with the newer units.

[asquared]

A few things to check. Get your hitch installation checked. There have been a few cases of a poor install where the hitch was not properly bolted to the truck frame. This can have disastrous effects. Also check to make sure all bolts/pins etc on your hitch are tight. Next check the pin box on the trailer. Our 5er had a bolt under the nose that was not the proper size strip out causing our pin box to warp where the plate is attached to the trailer. We had to get this part replaced on our trailer. We did not have that roll but if bad enough I could see where it could do that.

Check to make sure your tires are the appropriate pressure and the lug nuts are tight. Did you hit any bad potholes? Does anyone know if a bent axle could cause this?

As others have said, you need to know your true weights at a cat scale but I don't think weight is the cause here. When you weigh, check the truck with the front axle on scale pad one, rear axle on scale pad 2, and trailer axles on scale pad 3. Then get a separate weight with just the truck no trailer. Truck axles on scale pads 1 and 2 as above. You can then use these weights to determine your actual pin weight, available payload, room available on rear axle and actual loaded trailer weight. You want your pin weight 18-23% of loaded trailer weight. Ideal is closer to 20%.

[Tuckers Truckers]

Thanks to all. I really appreciate the commentary.

I don't think it's the Ford Death Wobble. The truck runs incredibly smooth and the shake eminated from the fifth wheel and not the truck front end.

I already spoke to the dealer that sold us the fifth wheel; they also installed the hitch. They seemed clueless. I'll have to continue pushing on this.

It's interesting to note that nobody else has seen this issue.

You guys rock!

[BandJCarm]

Originally Posted by Tuckers Truckers

Thanks to all. I really appreciate the commentary.

I don't think it's the Ford Death Wobble. The truck runs incredibly smooth and the shake eminated from the fifth wheel and not the truck front end.

I already spoke to the dealer that sold us the fifth wheel; they also installed the hitch. They seemed clueless. I'll have to continue pushing on this.

It's interesting to note that nobody else has seen this issue.

You guys rock!

You'll find they almost always do, on about every subject.

Do you have ANY friends that have big rigs, fifth wheels??? If so, and they are experienced, get them to look things over. Something is not installed right, or is not bolted down, etc. I'd never let an RV dealer install my 5th wheel hitch. Mine was done at an experienced truck accessory store. Possibly yours is centered behind the axles, or is loose somewhere. Did I miss what kind of hitch this is?????