Towing Calculations......making me insane

[BandJCarm]

Asquared:

Truck is LTZ trim, 3/4 ton, 2500, Diesel Duramax 6.6L four door, 6.5 foot bed.

The GVWR and GCWR is not in the manual, not on the doorjam, not in the glove box, I've torn all of these upside down, that info is not there. I've texted salesman to ask where it is. No answer yet. I do NOT have the info I need, it appears.

I got one of the first 2015's off the line, and maybe that's the issue. I don't know.

And I appreciate ALL the info here, but it's conflicting, and I can't seem to help because I can't find this nonexistent info on MY truck. I COULD go weigh it but......

It seems that the only true way to know whether it can pull X trailer is to already own X trailer and go weigh it as it will be used. Well, that's a Catch 22. I NEED to know what trailer I can buy and not buy.

But any calculation that says I can only pull a 5K or 6K lb trailer is suspect in my mind. I know that truck will pull more than that.

So, I am more confused than when I started.

[asquared]

Ok per the chevy website you should have a 10,000 lb gvwr and a 24,500 lb gcwr.
2015 chevy 2500 hd specs

[MrNiceGuy]

Find your truck under the proper year's guide and I believe you'll find the info you're looking for.
Trailer Towing Guides | Trailer Life Magazine

[spock123]

Originally Posted by CWSWine

This is my take on on running over weight. First the manufacture put limits on the truck to stay out of court but also to keep your family safe. In this case your dry 5er pin weight exceed the payload capacity of the truck so the no way you not over the manufactures maximum weighs. Both of those can be verified by VIN number. Now if you do get accident and smart lawyer figures that out you could be sitting yourself up for big law suit. Insurance will still pay but if you are found negligent for being over weight the insurance company can sue to recoup their cost of the claims they paid.

Let me ask you something how is anyone going to tell how much your camper weighs if your camper is destroyed.


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[fonzie]

There is more than what a truck can tow in trailer weight, it is what the truck payload can carry also, both are important when towing....

https://www.chevrolet.com/content/da...ring-Guide.pdf

[BandJCarm]

Originally Posted by asquared

Ok per the chevy website you should have a 10,000 lb gvwr and a 24,500 lb gcwr.
2015 chevy 2500 hd specs

OK, now what?

Let's say loaded trailer weighs 14,000 and loaded truck weighs 8,000. That's a best guess without weighing.

I'm under 24,500.

Yet I'm hearing here that I can't pull more than about 5,000. My current bumper pull camper weighs about 7,000 lbs loaded, and I pull it like it isn't even back there.

This is sooooooooo confusing.

[BandJCarm]

Here is what those calculations lead me to...............if these are really true, and this truck comes up with about a 6,000 lb max, then every fifth wheel sold in America would have to have a Semi Truck to pull them.

I'm actually not being sarcastic. Isn't that what it would take if these calculations are used?

[uhduh camping]

Your Chevrolet dealer's service dept can help you get the numbers you need. I would not fool around with the salesman. The service dept will be even able to tell you the axle ratios which as a major factor in towing capabilities.

[spock123]

Originally Posted by asquared

Now open your truck manual, pull out your gvwr and gcwr as well as your rear Gawr. Gvwr is gross vehicle weight rating. This means the most your truck can weigh with occupants, pets, cargo, pin weight, fuel, etc. The gcwr is your gross combined vehicle weight rating. The combined weight of your truck and trailer need to be less than that. Rear Gawr is the gross axle weight rating of your rear axle. The weight of your loaded pin weight plus the actual hitch need to be less than that.

Ok so the very best thing to do is to load your truck up with all occupants, pets, cargo and a full tank of fuel and go weigh it at a local truck scale. See cat scales for locations. If none are close to you, You can use a local feed store or dump station scale. At the cat scale, they have 3 scale pads. You will want to put your front axle on scale pad one, rear axle on scale pad two. The printout will give you each axle weight plus a total truck weight.

Take the total scaled truck weight and subtract it from the gcwr to get your adjusted towing capacity. This is the max weight trailer you can tow. Take the total scaled truck weight and subtract it from gcwr to get your available payload. Subtract anothef 150 lbs if you haven't installed a fiver hitch yet. This is the most pin weight you can accommodate. Now take the rear axle scaled weight and subtract it from the truck rear gawr. The loaded pin weight needs to be less than this number.

Ok now let's talk loaded weights. If this is your first trailer, you do don't know how much stuff you will load into a trailer. You can approach this two ways. You could use the trailers gvwr to calculate or you can look at averages. On average people tend to add around 1500 lbs to a trailer. Some more, some less. Your usage will vary this. You could add the 1500 lbs to the dry weight and calculate a pin weight from there. Ideal pin weight is typically 20-25% of loaded weight. To give you an idea, I'm running at 21% pin weight on my sabre rear entertainment fiver.

Let's calculate some numbers on the trailer listed.

TT to-be is Cedar Creek 36CKTS, with these listed specs:
GVCR 16,407
Hitch Weight 2,407
Unloaded Vehicle Weight 12,670
Cargo Capacity 3,678

If using trailer gvwr of 16407 x 20% pin weight you get a pin weight of 3281 lbs.
If using the added weight version then unloaded weight of 12670 + 1500= 14170 lbs loaded weight.
14170 x 20% pin weight is 2834 lbs low end pin weight.
14170 x 25% pin weight is 3542 lbs higher end pin weight.

I would be pushed to capacity with my 3500 SRW chevy duramax and my loading sticker is 4000 lbs (3200 lb payload loaded ready to camp with hitch in). So no your 2500 is not going to be able to handle this trailer.

According to your figures I would not be able to pull my Cedar Creek 32RL with my 3500. I have a 1,000lb more weight in bed of truck. I have pulled camper up big mountains and down mountains, I have never had a problem, I have took camper to Yellowstone and back. If I listened to some people I would be to afraid to leave my driveway.



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[asquared]

Alright so let's look at your given pAyload of 2286. Not sure what you are putting in truck ie dog, weights of passengers so for now I will just subtract 300 lbs for spouse and hitch for payload of 1986. Let's just make it easy at 1900 lbs. Working backwards.... using a 20% pin weight would give you a loaded fiver weight of 9500lbs.

[CWSWine]

Originally Posted by spock123

Let me ask you something how is anyone going to tell how much your camper weighs if your camper is destroyed.


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Really really simple. The advertised dry pin weight of the 5er is 2407.

The Vin number of his truck will product a payload of his 2500HD of 2286.

Just using those number he is already over weight by 121 lbs.

That doesn't include people, hitch, or anything in the 5er.

[Kenny kustom]

Originally Posted by CWSWine

Really really simple. The advertised dry pin weight of the 5er is 2407.

The Vin number of his truck will product a payload of his 2500HD of 2286.

Just using those number he is already over weight by 121 lbs.

That doesn't include people, hitch, or anything in the 5er.

Ditto


2016 Sabre 36QBOK
2015 Ram 3500 CUMMINS

[asquared]

You are able to tow some fivers, just not that one. here is one in your weight category.

[BandJCarm]

An alternate trailer I'm looking at is pin weight of 2,067 lbs.

Does that reduce it enough to make it ok, or not.

And I appreciate all the help. It's just overwhelming right now. And I apparently almost spent $50K for the wrong thing!!

[asquared]

I think the dry pin weight of the second trailer will still put you over weight.

[BandJCarm]

Working backwards, wouldn't it be true that there are VERY few truck short of a full Semi that would be rated to pull the trailer I originally listed???

???

[asquared]

The cedar creek you listed is dually territory.

[CWSWine]

Originally Posted by BandJCarm

Working backwards, wouldn't it be true that there are VERY few truck short of a full Semi that would be rated to pull the trailer I originally listed???

???

Not really. I have single rear wheel 1 ton with payload sticker of 3744 and on the scales I still have over 3200 payload ready to camp. Your first 5er come out to be
14170 x 20% pin weight is 2834 lbs low end pin weight.
14170 x 25% pin weight is 3542 lbs higher end pin weight

That's using 1500 lbs and from past weighing I know I only load around 1200lbs and keep the heavy stuff in the back of 5er I would be really close but under. Putting all your weight in the rear doesn't take off much the pin but doesn't add any either. You can't fix over weight by loading aft of axles.

Some of the 1 ton dully can have payload over 6,000 lbs so that would be an easy load for them.

[BandJCarm]

Where did 14,170 come from?

(feel free to disengage.......I realize I'm driving folks nuts)

Unloaded trailer weight is 12,670 on bigger trailer, and 10,880 on smaller one.

[asquared]

Originally Posted by BandJCarm

Where did 14,170 come from?

(feel free to disengage.......I realize I'm driving folks nuts)

Unloaded trailer weight is 12,670 on bigger trailer, and 10,880 on smaller one.

That was dry weight plus adding in 1500 lbs for average gear/food/clothes etc people put in a trailer since you are not likely to add 3000 lbs to a trailer.