Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×


Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-06-2016, 11:27 AM   #1
Senior Member
 
BandJCarm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Between Pickles Gap and Toad Suck, AR
Posts: 6,070
Question Towing Calculations......making me insane

I'm in the last stages of trying to figure out which Fifth Wheel to buy. I came to this Forum to help decide how much leeway I have in Towing. It is either so far off, or I am so far off, that I'm about to lose my mind.

I can't find a decent calculation model to use. I can't even find all of the numbers that the listed calculations require!!! What's worse, the calculations ask for ACTUAL trailer specs and weights, and I haven't bought it yet!

Here are the facts that I know. Maybe someone can steer me right.

TV is 2015 Chevy 2500 6.6L Diesel Duramax LTZ, 20" tires.

TT to-be is Cedar Creek 36CKTS, with these listed specs:
GVCR 16,407
Hitch Weight 2,407
Unloaded Vehicle Weight 12,670
Cargo Capacity 3,678
Tires are Westlake G rated 16"

Now.............

My first thought was that with the truck I have, if it won't pull almost any reasonable 5th Wheel sold in America, then how are they selling them at all? Surely it will!

Yet, when I put in the numbers I know from posted Chevy spec websites, including the one in the Sticky at "Changing Gears", it tells me that at that pin weight I can only pull an 8,800 lb trailer! GEEZ LOUISE!!!

We're old and we're about to spend 2/3 of our remaining retirement money on a TT that will have to be the last one ever.........and I do NOT want to make a big mistake. A lot of my questions are from my wife and have to do with layout and construction, but if I can't pull it easily, none of that matters.

I'd really, really appreciate any info and help here.

Thanks.

Bill
BandJCarm is offline  
Old 02-06-2016, 11:36 AM   #2
Senior Member
 
fonzie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Eastern Ontario
Posts: 4,167
It would be good if you post your Chevy door stickers like the one below......it will help members give you better info
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Ford door jam stickers.jpg
Views:	220
Size:	77.9 KB
ID:	99021  
__________________
Fonzie
2011 Rockwood 8319SS with ProPride 3P hitch/GoodYear Marathons/TST TPMS 507
2019 F350 Ruby Red 6.7l diesel 3.31 axle electronic locker
Yamaha 3000iseb generator:Progressive Ind. EMS-HW30C : Eastern Ontario
Nights Camped: 2014 (18) 2015 (18) 2016 (36) 2017 (32) 2018 (42) 2019 (28) 2020 (35)
fonzie is offline  
Old 02-06-2016, 12:10 PM   #3
Senior Member
 
BandJCarm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Between Pickles Gap and Toad Suck, AR
Posts: 6,070
I wish.

The ONLY sticker on my door is that tire and loading sticker. The other one is NOT there. I have looked all over all 4 doors. Not there. Nowhere. Not in owners manual. Not on original window sticker, which I have.

It's one reason I can't figure this out.
BandJCarm is offline  
Old 02-06-2016, 12:42 PM   #4
Senior Member
 
CWSWine's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 1,016
I almost assure you that you are going to exceed payload and I wouldn't be surprise if you don't even exceed you axle weights and tire limits. Here is a link and the author is on the forums. It easy to use and if you have any questions just ask. Look at my signature line and the specs of my Crusader.

Towing Planner - towing capability calculators
__________________
2017 Fleetwood Discovery LXE 40D Diesel Pusher 41 foot. CC 5740
2017 Solitude 310GK-R Pick Up Oct 24th.
2016 GMC Denali 1 ton Cargo Capacity 3722 lbs
Sold 2016 Keystone Montana 3711FL
Sold - 2015 Crusader 315RST 5th Wheel -
2015 Ford F350 SRW Cargo Capacity 3744
CWSWine is offline  
Old 02-06-2016, 12:58 PM   #5
Senior Member
 
CWSWine's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 1,016
The 5er in my tag line below was being towed by 2013 Chevy 2500HD Diesel. After weighting the 5er I was 800 lbs over GVWR and within 150 lbs of my Max Axle Ratings and tire ratings and that was just the stuff I keep in it and all tanks empty. Fully loaded ready to camp I would exceed my axle ratings. The specs on Forest River website were dry pin of 1953 and weight of 9900 lbs. It cost me truck upgraded.

I'm called one of the "Weight Police" but I do believe before I put my love ones in the truck I want to be as safe as possible.
__________________
2017 Fleetwood Discovery LXE 40D Diesel Pusher 41 foot. CC 5740
2017 Solitude 310GK-R Pick Up Oct 24th.
2016 GMC Denali 1 ton Cargo Capacity 3722 lbs
Sold 2016 Keystone Montana 3711FL
Sold - 2015 Crusader 315RST 5th Wheel -
2015 Ford F350 SRW Cargo Capacity 3744
CWSWine is offline  
Old 02-06-2016, 12:59 PM   #6
Senior Member
 
fonzie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Eastern Ontario
Posts: 4,167
sometime sticker is in glove compartment.....what does you yellow sticker says, it will tell you what maximum cargo and people to not exceed in lbs (KG)
__________________
Fonzie
2011 Rockwood 8319SS with ProPride 3P hitch/GoodYear Marathons/TST TPMS 507
2019 F350 Ruby Red 6.7l diesel 3.31 axle electronic locker
Yamaha 3000iseb generator:Progressive Ind. EMS-HW30C : Eastern Ontario
Nights Camped: 2014 (18) 2015 (18) 2016 (36) 2017 (32) 2018 (42) 2019 (28) 2020 (35)
fonzie is offline  
Old 02-06-2016, 01:04 PM   #7
Senior Member
 
BandJCarm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Between Pickles Gap and Toad Suck, AR
Posts: 6,070
The only yellow sticker I have is tire info. Nothing else anywhere, not in glove box, nowhere.
I've texted truck salesman to ask, he's checking.

Regardless, this is ........... I don't know what to do.

I can't trade trucks. This is a 2 year old truck, not paid for.

There are about 50,000 folks with 5th wheels pulled by diesel 2500's on the road. If every one of them are dangerously overweight, and they don't even know it......something is just odd.
BandJCarm is offline  
Old 02-06-2016, 01:16 PM   #8
Senior Member
 
CWSWine's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 1,016
Quote:
Originally Posted by BandJCarm View Post
The only yellow sticker I have is tire info. Nothing else anywhere, not in glove box, nowhere.
I've texted truck salesman to ask, he's checking.

Regardless, this is ........... I don't know what to do.

I can't trade trucks. This is a 2 year old truck, not paid for.

There are about 50,000 folks with 5th wheels pulled by diesel 2500's on the road. If every one of them are dangerously overweight, and they don't even know it......something is just odd.
That sticker is not just the tire loading but the max loading of your truck.

Now you want check that sticker you load up truck as would as if your go camping including passengers bring it to truck stop and 10 bucks you can get the weight of truck on a CAT scales. Take the front and rear axle weight add them together and subtract that from 10,000 and that will give your max payload. There probably be about 2000 lbs left for the pin weight of the 5er. The tag on the door don't include passengers, 200 lbs hitch, and other stuff you have added to your truck.

I though the same thing and that's what the truck salesman told me that I could tow a 15,000 lbs plus 5er but the factory uses pin weights percentage that are impossible to find in the real world and truck with ZERO options installed.

My 2013 2500HD and payload of 2475 but scale weights left me with 1980 in payload for the 5ers pin weight.
__________________
2017 Fleetwood Discovery LXE 40D Diesel Pusher 41 foot. CC 5740
2017 Solitude 310GK-R Pick Up Oct 24th.
2016 GMC Denali 1 ton Cargo Capacity 3722 lbs
Sold 2016 Keystone Montana 3711FL
Sold - 2015 Crusader 315RST 5th Wheel -
2015 Ford F350 SRW Cargo Capacity 3744
CWSWine is offline  
Old 02-06-2016, 01:19 PM   #9
Moderator Emeritus
 
asquared's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 11,069
On your tire sticker it will say "Occupants and cargo should not exceed x lbs" see where I circled below from the above pic.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Ford door jam stickers_kindlephoto-192644983.jpg
Views:	182
Size:	81.1 KB
ID:	99025  
__________________
<a href=https://i62.tinypic.com/28rp645.jpg target=_blank>https://i62.tinypic.com/28rp645.jpg</a>
2014 Crew Cab Chevy Silverado 3500 4wd Duramax/Allison
2014 Sabre 34REQS-6
asquared is offline  
Old 02-06-2016, 01:24 PM   #10
Senior Member
 
BandJCarm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Between Pickles Gap and Toad Suck, AR
Posts: 6,070
I cannot find RGAWR anywhere. The only sticker I have gives ONLY the tire size and tire pressure. Period. There is no tag on the door.

I can go weigh the truck, and if that gives me actual front and rear axle weights.

But I would think that there would be a manufacturer's listing SOMEWHERE giving me SOME idea of the information that would be on that door plate if it DID exist!
BandJCarm is offline  
Old 02-06-2016, 01:26 PM   #11
Senior Member
 
BandJCarm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Between Pickles Gap and Toad Suck, AR
Posts: 6,070
Quote:
Originally Posted by asquared View Post
On your tire sticker it will say "Occupants and cargo should not exceed x lbs" see where I circled below from the above pic.
OK, I have that. (I am beginning to feel senile, or stupid)........

It is Combined Weight of Occupants 2286 lbs.
Now what?
BandJCarm is offline  
Old 02-06-2016, 01:26 PM   #12
Senior Member
 
fonzie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Eastern Ontario
Posts: 4,167
I think until you get actual sticker information for your specified truck from manufacturer, no proper calculation can be made safely.....
__________________
Fonzie
2011 Rockwood 8319SS with ProPride 3P hitch/GoodYear Marathons/TST TPMS 507
2019 F350 Ruby Red 6.7l diesel 3.31 axle electronic locker
Yamaha 3000iseb generator:Progressive Ind. EMS-HW30C : Eastern Ontario
Nights Camped: 2014 (18) 2015 (18) 2016 (36) 2017 (32) 2018 (42) 2019 (28) 2020 (35)
fonzie is offline  
Old 02-06-2016, 01:37 PM   #13
Georgia Rally Coordinator
 
aceinspp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: GA
Posts: 24,355
The info on the 2015 2500 is located just as you open door and look just be low seat lower jam. This what it looks like silver. Click in pic to enlarge Later RJD
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	img_2979.jpg
Views:	248
Size:	290.8 KB
ID:	99026  
__________________
2020 Shasta Phoenix SPF 27RKSS (sold)
2018 Dodge Ram 2500 6.4 3:73 gearing. Traded 2015 Chevy 2500 6.0, 4:10
Traded 2015 30WRLIKS V-Lite
Days camped 2019 62
Days camped 2020 49 days camped 2021-74 2022-40 days 2023 5 days
aceinspp is offline  
Old 02-06-2016, 01:42 PM   #14
Senior Member
 
CWSWine's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 1,016
Quote:
Originally Posted by BandJCarm View Post
OK, I have that. (I am beginning to feel senile, or stupid)........

It is Combined Weight of Occupants 2286 lbs.
Now what?
Using the link I gave you earlier and using the 2286 with hitch and 2 passenger at 150 lbs each here is the numbers.

Camper Weight You're adding approximately 500 lbs. to the truck. You have 1,786 lbs. of payload capacity. Fifth wheels typically have 20% - 25% pin weight which gives you a maximum loaded camper weight of 7,144 - 8,930 lbs.



Towing Calculator based on Truck&#39;s Payload/CCC - Towing Planner

You most likely going to exceed the axle ratings which I believe are about 6200 lbs on Chevy 2500.
__________________
2017 Fleetwood Discovery LXE 40D Diesel Pusher 41 foot. CC 5740
2017 Solitude 310GK-R Pick Up Oct 24th.
2016 GMC Denali 1 ton Cargo Capacity 3722 lbs
Sold 2016 Keystone Montana 3711FL
Sold - 2015 Crusader 315RST 5th Wheel -
2015 Ford F350 SRW Cargo Capacity 3744
CWSWine is offline  
Old 02-06-2016, 01:49 PM   #15
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Warsaw,NC
Posts: 7,184
I have seen a lot of campers being pulled by trucks that were a little small. I have seen F-150 pulling 41ft campers, if it was the last camper that I was going to get and I wanted the 36CKTS which is a very nice camper then I would get it. Later on in a few years then get a 3500. If truck doesn't pull level then put air bags on. I can assure you that you will never be stopped by DOT and checked for weight, now the weight police on here and other sites might want to stop you. Just when you pull your camper just drive safe. By that I mean watch your speed, and you don't have to carry anything in your holding tanks. In America you aren't going to ever be to far from a Walmart, don't haul a lot of food around. I'm sure if you asked a question on Google you would find most people pulling big camper's with 2500 or less truck.


Sent from my iPhone using Forest River Forums
spock123 is offline  
Old 02-06-2016, 01:55 PM   #16
Senior Member
 
BandJCarm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Between Pickles Gap and Toad Suck, AR
Posts: 6,070
Quote:
Originally Posted by aceinspp View Post
The info on the 2015 2500 is located just as you open door and look just be low seat lower jam. This what it looks like silver. Click in pic to enlarge Later RJD
I DO NOT have that sticker. I have torn the truck upside down. I know what they look like, my other truck has it, every truck I have owned has it.

This one does not.
BandJCarm is offline  
Old 02-06-2016, 01:55 PM   #17
Moderator Emeritus
 
asquared's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 11,069
Now open your truck manual, pull out your gvwr and gcwr as well as your rear Gawr. Gvwr is gross vehicle weight rating. This means the most your truck can weigh with occupants, pets, cargo, pin weight, fuel, etc. The gcwr is your gross combined vehicle weight rating. The combined weight of your truck and trailer need to be less than that. Rear Gawr is the gross axle weight rating of your rear axle. The weight of your loaded pin weight plus the actual hitch need to be less than that.

Ok so the very best thing to do is to load your truck up with all occupants, pets, cargo and a full tank of fuel and go weigh it at a local truck scale. See cat scales for locations. If none are close to you, You can use a local feed store or dump station scale. At the cat scale, they have 3 scale pads. You will want to put your front axle on scale pad one, rear axle on scale pad two. The printout will give you each axle weight plus a total truck weight.

Take the total scaled truck weight and subtract it from the gcwr to get your adjusted towing capacity. This is the max weight trailer you can tow. Take the total scaled truck weight and subtract it from gcwr to get your available payload. Subtract anothef 150 lbs if you haven't installed a fiver hitch yet. This is the most pin weight you can accommodate. Now take the rear axle scaled weight and subtract it from the truck rear gawr. The loaded pin weight needs to be less than this number.

Ok now let's talk loaded weights. If this is your first trailer, you do don't know how much stuff you will load into a trailer. You can approach this two ways. You could use the trailers gvwr to calculate or you can look at averages. On average people tend to add around 1500 lbs to a trailer. Some more, some less. Your usage will vary this. You could add the 1500 lbs to the dry weight and calculate a pin weight from there. Ideal pin weight is typically 20-25% of loaded weight. To give you an idea, I'm running at 21% pin weight on my sabre rear entertainment fiver.

Let's calculate some numbers on the trailer listed.

TT to-be is Cedar Creek 36CKTS, with these listed specs:
GVCR 16,407
Hitch Weight 2,407
Unloaded Vehicle Weight 12,670
Cargo Capacity 3,678

If using trailer gvwr of 16407 x 20% pin weight you get a pin weight of 3281 lbs.
If using the added weight version then unloaded weight of 12670 + 1500= 14170 lbs loaded weight.
14170 x 20% pin weight is 2834 lbs low end pin weight.
14170 x 25% pin weight is 3542 lbs higher end pin weight.

I would be pushed to capacity with my 3500 SRW chevy duramax and my loading sticker is 4000 lbs (3200 lb payload loaded ready to camp with hitch in). So no your 2500 is not going to be able to handle this trailer.
__________________
<a href=https://i62.tinypic.com/28rp645.jpg target=_blank>https://i62.tinypic.com/28rp645.jpg</a>
2014 Crew Cab Chevy Silverado 3500 4wd Duramax/Allison
2014 Sabre 34REQS-6
asquared is offline  
Old 02-06-2016, 01:59 PM   #18
Moderator Emeritus
 
asquared's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 11,069
Also tell us about your truck, we may be able to help you find some more info. Tell us crew cab, single cab etc, long bed or short bed, 4x4, you said 2015 silverado duramax but is it hd? What trim package. this all matters.
__________________
<a href=https://i62.tinypic.com/28rp645.jpg target=_blank>https://i62.tinypic.com/28rp645.jpg</a>
2014 Crew Cab Chevy Silverado 3500 4wd Duramax/Allison
2014 Sabre 34REQS-6
asquared is offline  
Old 02-06-2016, 02:00 PM   #19
Senior Member
 
CWSWine's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 1,016
This is my take on on running over weight. First the manufacture put limits on the truck to stay out of court but also to keep your family safe. In this case your dry 5er pin weight exceed the payload capacity of the truck so the no way you not over the manufactures maximum weighs. Both of those can be verified by VIN number. Now if you do get accident and smart lawyer figures that out you could be sitting yourself up for big law suit. Insurance will still pay but if you are found negligent for being over weight the insurance company can sue to recoup their cost of the claims they paid.
__________________
2017 Fleetwood Discovery LXE 40D Diesel Pusher 41 foot. CC 5740
2017 Solitude 310GK-R Pick Up Oct 24th.
2016 GMC Denali 1 ton Cargo Capacity 3722 lbs
Sold 2016 Keystone Montana 3711FL
Sold - 2015 Crusader 315RST 5th Wheel -
2015 Ford F350 SRW Cargo Capacity 3744
CWSWine is offline  
Old 02-06-2016, 02:05 PM   #20
Senior Member
 
CWSWine's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 1,016
Asquared said much better then I can. Excellent post.
__________________
2017 Fleetwood Discovery LXE 40D Diesel Pusher 41 foot. CC 5740
2017 Solitude 310GK-R Pick Up Oct 24th.
2016 GMC Denali 1 ton Cargo Capacity 3722 lbs
Sold 2016 Keystone Montana 3711FL
Sold - 2015 Crusader 315RST 5th Wheel -
2015 Ford F350 SRW Cargo Capacity 3744
CWSWine is offline  
Closed Thread

Tags
towing

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Forest River, Inc. or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:59 PM.