Towing fifth wheel with my f250 diesel.

[quick83]

PLEASE do not flame me regarding this post. I know I am towing over my max. I’ve been helped with this before, but I am still concerned about my GAWR and would like to have someone who really knows how to figure out how much I am over my limit give me a hand. Been towing in many arduous situations for 4 years and never had an issue YET. This is long and anyone who is willing to read and evaluate I greatly appreciate. I have f350 springs on my 2008 f250 diesel long bed truck. Has Michelin tires rated at 3145 lbs now. I ordered my truck new and the order package on invoice showed only difference btw 250 and 350 was the 350 badge and springs. The 350 option was 180$ more. The sales man said I would be unhappy with a 350 cause of the ride. Well I ended up later getting a fifth wheel with a 12,847 dry weight. It has 7000 lb axles and tires rated at 3900 lbs at 100 psi. I run them at 85 psi, I have TPM on all tires. I will try to include all placards and info needed. Ie, scale weights etc. one thing I notice is a f350 shows 1200 more lbs more on the GAWR than a f250 with NO diff in the truck EXCEPT the springs and badge. Ie; same frame, rear end, shocks, rims, and brakes. I know for legal purposes I am probably over using the door plaque on my F250. I know there is other factors to consider for safety like stopping and handling, However all I am interested in is please getting someone’s assistance with is the GAWR . technically the GAWR is the same now as a f350. With that said I am NOT using F350 numbers to compute this. Here is my info.
TRUCK GAWR is 6,100lbs
GVWR IS 10,000lbs
Scales: truck axle wt with Rv hitched up is 6,360. Fully loaded with ALL normal cargo and full tank. Truck Bed empty.
See all attached pics for info. If you need something else please ask. Thanks for assisting me. I wish I could get a dually. [emoji849]

[BandJCarm]

Look on door jamb of driver's door for placard showing Cargo Carrying Capacity. List what that is.

[quick83]

Can you see my pictures?

[BandJCarm]

Yes. But if Cargo Carrying Capacity (Payload) is listed, I am missing it. I am old, don't see well, I admit. Is it there?

[doc73]

If I am reading correct, you are at 11,300lbs. This is 1300 lbs over your 10k gvwr... but your rear axle is only slightly over by 260lbs. Is that loaded as you travel? Food,water,people and critters in tow vehicle?

[SlowrideHD]

I used to tow a fifth wheel with my 2002 F250 powerstroke 4X4. As you said, and in my case, the 4X4 F250 powerstroke had the same running gear as a single rear wheel F350, with the exception of one added leaf on the rear springs. To address this issue and to maintain a reasonable empty ride, I added Firestone air bags under the rear with an on-board air compressor that I could adjust on the fly. That way I could level my truck, no matter the load. A state trooper acquaintance told me regarding weight, that they would look at the tire side wall for maximum load capacity at max inflation. If you were good on that point, he was satisfied. I can not speak to any other ruling or law concerning this. Growing up and moving a lot of farm equipment and implements around, I always pulled whatever I felt was capable and safe. This flies in the face of many of the weight police opinions here. I understand they have their opinions and do not question their sincerity.

All that being said, my F350 dually makes a much more capable and safe feeling tow vehicle than the old F250....even if it was (almost) similarly equipped.

[quick83]

Yes fully loaded except for groceries.

[donniedu]

BT,DT. Towed my 13,742GVWR fiver scaled at 13,500 pounds with a 2500 DA Chevy. For three years it was the absolute worst towing experience of my life! Swapped ot for a dually and never looked back. BTW my truck scaled 10,500 loaded ready to go, so Im right there where you are. The old adage, " you cant make a silk purse out of a sows ear" is as true today as it was a hundred years ago. Instead of putting band aids on your truck, do yourself a favor and upgrade to a truck that actually can handle the trailers GVWR.

[quick83]

Bandj , the truck’s CGVW (combined gross vech weight) can be 23,500 lbs. (truck and Rv together fully loaded. ) Is that what u r asking?

[walaby]

You say you are concerned about GAWR, and want to know how much over that you are.


You are 260 lbs over your Rear GAWR in the configuration you weighed it in.



If your looking for some sort of analysis that would give you additional GAWR, that's a different question and will result in wild speculative swings.


OBTW - you are 70 lbs over your tire capacity too.





Mike

[fonzie]

Originally Posted by quick83

Bandj , the truck’s CGVW (combined gross vech weight) can be 23,500 lbs. (truck and Rv together fully loaded. ) Is that what u r asking?

Post the yellow sticker that should be near your door jam....see example below.

[quick83]

I know the numbers are good so what blows my mind is I have to loose 1700 lbs out of Rv. (Not possible) to equal 260 off pin. Which means a 2008 f250 long longbed needs to only tow an rv with a loaded wt of 11,300 And then I’m right at the limit. So Rv wt empty will be like 10,000 lbs.

[BandJCarm]

Originally Posted by quick83

Bandj , the truck’s CGVW (combined gross vech weight) can be 23,500 lbs. (truck and Rv together fully loaded. ) Is that what u r asking?

No. See Fonzie's post. That's what is needed. The other numbers are sort of 2nd to that one. Need to know the CCC.

[quick83]

Ok. I see. Will get it shortly. Thanks to all you for helping. Just want to come with a “I’m —— amount over my axle wt or —- amount over my combined weight or what ever numbers you all can come up with. Thanks again.

[walaby]

Originally Posted by quick83

Ok. I see. Will get it shortly. Thanks to all you for helping. Just want to come with a “I’m —— amount over my axle wt or —- amount over my combined weight or what ever numbers you all can come up with. Thanks again.

.
Im confused. You got your answer right in front of you.

Rear GAWR is 6100 lbs. Technically you can speculate what the capacity you've added by whatever upgrades, but you (or anyone else) is speculating.

When hooked up, your rear axle weight is 6360.

You are 260 lbs over your axle weight, based on the facts presented.


In one sentence, you say you see that a 350 has 1100 lbs more rear axle capacity than the 250, and you say you are the same as a 350 except the badge. Then you say you're not using the 350 capacities, BUT you want someone on the internet to calculate what your GAWR should be? could be? might be?


Your tire capacities total 6290 lbs. You are also 70 lbs over your tire capacity. So, even if you specuiate your GAWR increased by 1000 lbs, your tires didn't increase.

What am I missing here? You can be 10,000 lbs below your GCWR, and you would STILL be exceeding your axle and tire weight ratings, based on facts presented.

Am I missing something???

Mike

[doc73]

Nope. Your not. CCC is not needed, like you said we have what is needed in front of us

[quick83]

Attachment 173000
Here is the info. Did not realize was over on my tires. [emoji849]. I’d be fine if I had no fuel or people or stuff in truck. Still like to know where I would stand with f350 specs on door. The PPT IN ches va is awful. A 55000$ truck is 150$ a month for the tax!! Plus you are SUPPOSE to reg weighted or something like that for a dually. Thanks for all the help. Basically I’m screwed and will be a danger when I toe. [emoji849]. Btw I have timbrins also.

[quick83]

Oh yea. What wonder what weight fifth wheel I can safely haul. 10,000lbs? Pin weight of 1500lbs ? Do they even make one like that. Not very much.

[donniedu]

Timbrens, air bags, different springs, none of those things can or will alter the Factory, DOT mandated sticker on the drivers door post. Overloaded is overloaded. Will your truck instantly blow up? No certainally not. Will you get ticketed? No. Unless you wind up in an accident and someone stops to ask about your weights. Then a sharp lawyer could drag you through the mud for years and wind up taking everything you have. However unlikely this might be, if there are injuries or deaths all bets are off. Are you prepared to take that chance? Get the correct truck or get a smaller load.

[walaby]

Weigh your truck full of fuel, with passengers, without trailer hooked up, but with hitch in bed. Note your rear axle weight.


Subtract rear axle weight from 6100 (Rear GAWR). The remainder is the pin weight you could carry. Many folks (myself included) will use GAWR as the measurement to not exceed rather than the GVWR. BUT, the difference is, most of us who do that, will not try to arbitrarily increase the GAWR because we've added equipment or whatever. So, you could very easily tow a 5er in excess of 10K, exceeding the trucks payload capacity, but still be within the rear GAWR.



In your case though, you've exceeded the GAWR and tire capacity, but you want to rationalize the excess. I (or others) could say you've only exceeded the capacity by like 4% so you'll be fine. But, that's speculation. You can decide what you want to accept.


If you've towed it for four years, why not just keep on keepin on and not worry about what I or anyone else thinks?


Mike