Towing over TV payload

[Scratch]

Originally Posted by SteveBingham52

One problem I have run into is finding the actual number for GCWR. I have an F250 super duty diesel (2012) and have gotten different number from two dealers and from where I bought my camper. I have looked online and found a different number there. I just don't know which number to use.

Your GCWR is 23,500 lbs. Your GVWR is 10,100lbs. As previously stated, you can be well under GCWR, but perilously close to, or over, your GAWR specs. Your rear axle GAWR is most-likely 6,100 lbs (F-350 SRW steps up to 7,000). IMO, axles (GAWR) are the critical spec when considering towing capabilities. Rule of thumb is not to exceed 90% GAWR.

[Lynkage]

I just saw one today going down I25. A big Cardinal 38-40', on an F250 either a 2009-or 10.

I could see it from behind as the trailer looked like it was pointing into the ground.

Once I was next to him, I could see that, if it were night time his lights would be pointing at the moon, and the rear was almost on the ground.
Crazy!

[Oaklevel]

I would say alot of RVers are just misinformed........... It is not easy to understand all the GVW, GVWR, GVCR, ABCD, XYZS.... & then they mistakenly rely on their RV & Vehicle dealers ..............

Then the manufacturers make it even harder as they don't support info for older vehicles................. my 05 is one my weight stickers are gone so without assistance from the manuf which its too old I don't know my true weight caps. according to the manuf. I do know about what they should be......................

I have been in the overweight category in then past I never felt unsafe, never felt I could not control what was going on but I did end up with vehicle issues. My TV outweighed the TT by over 2500 lbs but I can tell you I was way over the TVs GVWR.

An easier to understand system would be better..... I would say general law enforcement doesn't know either....... The DOT guys do but they stay busy with the commercial truckers.... Around here its log trucks probably 50% are overweight ( most want to pile on all they can)

[wolfpack21643]

Originally Posted by Oaklevel

I have another question without taking a vehicle to a scale how are you (law enforcement) going to be able to prove that a vehicle is over weight not all law enforcement carries portable scales just because it looks like it is does not make it so....... there no requirement for a RV operator to carry a weight certificate................ My state trooper buddys have been told unless some is way off (speeding / reckless driving etc. ) to leave RVers alone state needs the tourist revenue................

FYI, I nor any of my co-workers including the State Troopers we work with everyday have never been told to leave anyone alone as far as I know of, so that would not depend on that everywhere.

Also it would be easy to get portable scales we have full time DOT that works our area and they carry them.

I'm not trying to stir the pot I'm just stating that you are taking a big risk when you tow over weight. I don't care if you blow your truck apart on the hi-way towing over weight, if I see you I will stop and try to help you as much as I can that's your problem and repair bill not my bill and my job is to help you get out of the roadway and not get hit by passing traffic.

I'm just telling you that there could be both traffic law and civil law suit problems if something goes wrong. All it takes is two crazy kids on the back seat or an all night tow and your attention slips you rear end a car at the local stop light and they are seeing $ signs.

Just my 2 cents.

[WEMig]

Originally Posted by Lynkage

I just saw one today going down I25. A big Cardinal 38-40', on an F250 either a 2009-or 10.

I could see it from behind as the trailer looked like it was pointing into the ground.

Once I was next to him, I could see that, if it were night time his lights would be pointing at the moon, and the rear was almost on the ground.
Crazy!

An F250 4WD will have a soft rear end. I've seen them that are under their GVWR and GAWR and still sag an F250. I'm a little over on my GVWR but well below my GAWR and had to add airbags to keep my lights from pointing high. BTW, I think we've expanded the definition of "weight police" by bringing in the professionals! LOL

[Len & Cheri]

Originally Posted by wolfpack21643

In Maryland we have a statute for "operation of an unsafe vehicle" that is left up to the officers discretion. That would be one way and your county judge would make a judgment at trail time. I can tell you in my county as long as the officer was able to make a decent case based on his observations and math from the sticker on the door jamb the officer would most likely win the case. I cant say that for all judges but each county court is subject to how that judge see's the law.

I do know that I have seen DOT officers at accident scenes use the load numbers off the tires and such to look for an over weight trailer say. Also there is a whole section of the law book that just pertains to towing and such in Maryland. I don't have it with me right now (i'm off today) but I bet given a few mintues on an accident scene and I could come up with it.

I would most likely use the operation of an unsafe vehicle statute if I ever came across an accident where an over weight issue were at hand. Also you could charge with negligent driving which is kind of a catch all that covers "unsafe operation" of vehicles, and by someone driving in what the manufacture assigns as an over weight condition then you would meet that part of the law also.

In summary the "operation of an unsafe vehicle" charge would cover the registered weight of the vehicle part and the negligent charge would cover the part of a driver acutally towing the vehicle in what the sate has deemed unsafe. In Maryland they print your tow weights on your registration card so once you exceed that weight your toast.

You are saying after you scale it you would then cite the person, right? I'm thinking without scales you're just guessing.

[Lynkage]

Originally Posted by WEMig

An F250 4WD will have a soft rear end. I've seen them that are under their GVWR and GAWR and still sag an F250. I'm a little over on my GVWR but well above my GAWR and had to add airbags to keep my lights from pointing high. BTW, I think we've expanded the definition of "weight police" by bringing in the professionals! LOL

True on the 250, but he was WAY overweight because it was one of the BIG Cardinals in the 15K+ range. I was suprised I didn't see sparks on the rear it was so bad.

[wolfpack21643]

Originally Posted by Len & Cheri

You are saying after you scale it you would then cite the person, right? I'm thinking without scales you're just guessing.

I would never cite without putting you on scales first.

And before I called for the scales I would be pretty sure by looking at the listed trailer weight (we do have the internet in our patrol cars so going to the maunf. web site would be easy to get their listed weights) and door jamb numbers from you TV that you are most likely overweight. I am not in the business of wasting your time or mine.

You would have to be visabley grossly over weight for me to pull you for that alone.

[Len & Cheri]

Originally Posted by wolfpack21643

I would never cite without putting you on scales first.

And before I called for the scales I would be pretty sure by looking at the listed trailer weight (we do have the internet in our patrol cars so going to the maunf. web site would be easy to get their listed weights) and door jamb numbers from you TV that you are most likely overweight. I am not in the business of wasting your time or mine.

You would have to be visabley grossly over weight for me to pull you for that alone.

Thanks for clearing that up

[WEMig]

Originally Posted by Lynkage

True on the 250, but he was WAY overweight because it was one of the BIG Cardinals in the 15K+ range. I was suprised I didn't see sparks on the rear it was so bad.

Yea, thats way out of F250 territory. Im maxed out on mine with a 11300lb 5th wheel.

[bakken]

Originally Posted by myredracer

I'm amazed at the towing folks who don't have a clue, could care less and/or don't get it even when told point blank to them. I can understand those who simply didn't know and that's where forums like this really help

The worst are those who claim to be some hotshot engineer or something, brag about towing their 10,000 lb fifth wheel with an old chevy 1/2 ton, then "advise" others that it is perfectly safe.
That is where forums like this don't help.

But, happily, the vast majority of posters have their heads screwed on the right way, and give pretty darn good advice. It is up to the reader if they want to accept that advice or not. If they don't, I just hope I don't have to encounter them on the road!

I think the biggest single factor in these kinds of decisions is that people want more than they can afford. They see these great big awesome campers, fall in love with them, then try to justify cheaping out on a TV because they simply cannot afford the right one, and only because they spent more than they could afford on that monster camper.
People need to step back and use their heads once in a while.

[Oaklevel]

I'm not trying to start any just curious as we all get different info & each state is different.

Getting scales here would take 1 1/2 hours or longer if a DOT officer was not on duty................ none are assigned to my county but are in the district they move around the district for enforcement. We only have a couple state troopers at any one time here.....

Also I know the judges have the final word....... Off subject a little but several years ago a driver struck a child crossing the road ...... The child was getting off a big yellow vehicle with operating red flashing lights...... The case was thrown out because the Commonwealths Attorney could not prove that the big yellow vehicle met the states definition of a school bus....... It looked like they all do...... She had a very good Attorney.............

Just curious because I don 't see how law enforcement can say something is overweight & not be able to prove it with a weight .....I really don't think it would fly here might in Maryland.......

Over weight RVs is becoming a big problem I don't have an easy answer..... I still believe that too many drivers cars & RVs just don't have a clue how dangerous their actions or lack of actions can be...........

[sidney]

Originally Posted by wolfpack21643

I would never cite without putting you on scales first.

And before I called for the scales I would be pretty sure by looking at the listed trailer weight (we do have the internet in our patrol cars so going to the maunf. web site would be easy to get their listed weights) and door jamb numbers from you TV that you are most likely overweight. I am not in the business of wasting your time or mine.

You would have to be visabley grossly over weight for me to pull you for that alone.

Obviously being "grossly" over weight causing unsafe/hazardous conditions could be a violation.

But your previous statement:

"If your stopped by the law and the patrol officer goes past his reason for stop and starts doing the math and comes to the conclusion that you are over weight by a pound he can shut you down and keep you there until a TV with the proper GVW rating is summoned to pull your TT to a safe spot off the roadway"

What statute are you referring to?

Ticketed for being 1 pound over the door sticker GVWR?

I don't think so.

[wolfpack21643]

Originally Posted by sidney

Obviously being "grossly" over weight causing unsafe/hazardous conditions could be a violation.

But your previous statement:

"If your stopped by the law and the patrol officer goes past his reason for stop and starts doing the math and comes to the conclusion that you are over weight by a pound he can shut you down and keep you there until a TV with the proper GVW rating is summoned to pull your TT to a safe spot off the roadway"

What statute are you referring to?

Ticketed for being 1 pound over the door sticker GVWR?

I don't think so.

Section 24 109 b Maryland Motor Vehicle law states
"exceeding permissible veh. overall gross wt." then it directs you to
see section 27 105 which states:

(i) The max reg. wt limit for which the veh. or combination of vehs. is reg under MD veh law or

(ii)any statutory wt limit set forth in md veh law

(iii) the max weight limit imposed by signs placed to regulate wt of veh passing over bridge or culvert.

Section (b) is important and where I made my error with the 1 pound over statement.

(b) permitted tolerance. Except on interstate highways, loading error or tolerance of 1,000 lbs registered, statutory or signage weight limit allowed.

The rest goes on to explain the fines such as $25.00 plus .01 for each pound over 1,000 lbs over the limit ect.

See I had to go drag the law book out on my day off thanks guys

Now I dont know what the interstate highway exclusion means?

But I still maintain that your problems are going to be with the civil side of things if you wreck. I can hear it now:

Ladies and gentlemen of the jury you can see my client was the victim of someone who thought he knew better then the Ford and Forest River companies and towed his one pound over weight rig of death straight into my poor defensless client.

Yeah I have heard that line before in court and the Insurance company usally ends up writing a big fat check

[bakken]

In our area, the highway inspectors have begun to crack down on those who are obviously overloaded. I am glad that I can avoid that issue.
We also have the requirement for a special driver's licence for towing a camper over 10,000 lbs, and they are letting people know that they will also be enforcing that more strictly in the future.
I am not fond of over-bearing "authority", but in the case of safety, I can tolerate it.

[sidney]

Wolfpack, thank you posting the MD DMV law.

However, I would point out there is no mention of the GVWR sticker on the TV.

I have no idea at what weight limit MD law requires vehicle registration to include a GVW. In my state a GVW on the registration only applies to commercial vehicles.

[Oaklevel]

Originally Posted by wolfpack21643

Section 24 109 b Maryland Motor Vehicle law states
"exceeding permissible veh. overall gross wt." then it directs you to
see section 27 105 which states:

(i) The max reg. wt limit for which the veh. or combination of vehs. is reg under MD veh law or

(ii)any statutory wt limit set forth in md veh law

(iii) the max weight limit imposed by signs placed to regulate wt of veh passing over bridge or culvert.

Section (b) is important and where I made my error with the 1 pound over statement.

(b) permitted tolerance. Except on interstate highways, loading error or tolerance of 1,000 lbs registered, statutory or signage weight limit allowed.

The rest goes on to explain the fines such as $25.00 plus .01 for each pound over 1,000 lbs over the limit ect.

See I had to go drag the law book out on my day off thanks guys

Now I dont know what the interstate highway exclusion means?

But I still maintain that your problems are going to be with the civil side of things if you wreck. I can hear it now:

Ladies and gentlemen of the jury you can see my client was the victim of someone who thought he knew better then the Ford and Forest River companies and towed his one pound over weight rig of death straight into my poor defensless client.

Yeah I have heard that line before in court and the Insurance company usally ends up writing a big fat check

Sorry about working on your day off but the word does need to get out Thanks for the info....

You do see some crazy things going down the road....... I agree 100% the civil side can go any direction.......... I doubt I will hear much but the I77 95 car pile up on Fancy Gap mountain not sure how may RVs were involved saw a couple that were behind the wreck (They missed it)....... The attorneys are going to have a field day...................

[wolfpack21643]

Originally Posted by sidney

Wolfpack, thank you posting the MD DMV law.

However, I would point out there is no mention of the GVWR sticker on the TV.

I have no idea at what weight limit MD law requires vehicle registration to include a GVW. In my state a GVW on the registration only applies to commercial vehicles.

In Maryland all vehicles have a gross wt on the registration not just commercial. I have a small 4x8 lawn trailer and the registration card says it's GVW is 1,100 lbs.

Also just for laughs when I was flipping through the law book I found this gem of a law.

22 404.1 (a) (can not have) Unauthorized display of motor veh. club emblem and insignia. $60.00 and no points.

Does that mean if I have a AAA sticker on my back window but don't renew at the end of the year and remove the sticker then I am breaking the law?

Who makes these stupid laws

Mabey I should get a Good Sam Club life membership so I wont have to worry about getting a fine if I miss my dues payment.

[wolfpack21643]

On a side note when I bought my Mini Lite 2306 in Ohio I hauled it home and went to the DMV a few days later. The lady behind the counter asked me what the GVW of the TT was and I told her I wasn't sure to the pound but it should be in all the papers that I had just handed her. She looked than asked again. I said I don't know let me call my wife and have her get the numbers off of the side of the TT. I called and got the numbers and when I told the DMV lady she said "I'm going to add 1,000 lbs just so you don't have to worry about staying legal. She had no idea I was a cop.

I later found out that the registration cost is based on GVW and when she moved me up it cost me an extra $50.00. Go figure, I now most likely own the highest registered gross weight Mini Lite 2306 in the country. What kind of state do I live in, pick your own weight?

[Lynkage]

Originally Posted by wolfpack21643

In Maryland all vehicles have a gross wt on the registration not just commercial. I have a small 4x8 lawn trailer and the registration card says it's GVW is 1,100 lbs.

Also just for laughs when I was flipping through the law book I found this gem of a law.

22 404.1 (a) (can not have) Unauthorized display of motor veh. club emblem and insignia. $60.00 and no points.

Does that mean if I have a AAA sticker on my back window but don't renew at the end of the year and remove the sticker then I am breaking the law?

Who makes these stupid laws

Mabey I should get a Good Sam Club life membership so I wont have to worry about getting a fine if I miss my dues payment.

That's funny!!