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Old 04-03-2013, 04:15 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by SteveBingham52 View Post
One problem I have run into is finding the actual number for GCWR. I have an F250 super duty diesel (2012) and have gotten different number from two dealers and from where I bought my camper. I have looked online and found a different number there. I just don't know which number to use.
I imagine Ford has something similar, but given a VIN- I contacted Chrysler about a used Ram. They were able to tell me the full builds sheet with gearing details. Using that, I was able to go to the Ram Body Builder guide and get the exact GCWR rating.

That said- you usually can't hit GCWR without exceeding GVWR. The GVWR is on a sticker on the doorjamb for 5 years or so now.
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Old 04-03-2013, 04:16 PM   #32
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I agree... many folks are exceeding the GVWR of their TV... and I have a theory why.

It's not a big deal.

Don't get me wrong... obviously its not safe to tow grossly overweight and I am not condoning it... but hear me out.

1. There is no "standard procedure" set by any government agency for determining the GVWR. The manufacturers are free to use whatever method they want to set their ratings. IMO the manufacturer's GVWR is greatly influenced by actuary data to limit warranty claims and possible litigation.

2. Why does the total of the front and rear GAWR considerably exceed the GVWR? If you are not exceeding the front and rear GAWR how can you be over weight?

3. Why do some manufacturer's give separate 5th wheel towing weights? When you begin to reach the 5th wheel tow ratings you will be well over the TV GVWR. Here's an example:

2013 SIERRA 2500HD CC, SB, 4WD Duramax
5th wheel tow rating: 15,800 lbs
Max Payload: 2706 lbs

The pin weight of most 5th wheels is at least 20% of the GVW; 20% of 15,800 is 3,160 lbs... you are already 400 lbs over the max payload and you still haven't loaded the family or gear in the TV.

4. As has already been mentioned... most people do not research, study and understand payload, GVWR, GAWR etc. When purchasing a camper most only look at the "tow rating" of their vehicle and buy a camper within the limits. And I believe the TV manufacturer's are aware of this and do not expect the typical American consumer to look beyond the "tow rating" weight.

5. If... as most of us have already stated and believe... that a large percentage of folks are exceeding the GVWR when towing...

If it is critically dangerous then why aren't the highways leading to our National Parks littered with broke down campers and towing accidents?

We are still shopping for our first 5th wheel and my comments above are some of the things I have thought about while doing my "weight" research.

How many of you (if any) are using your GAWR to determine your payload capacity?
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Old 04-03-2013, 04:32 PM   #33
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FYI

CAT Scale

RV Camping & RV Lifestyle - Changin' Gears
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Old 04-03-2013, 04:36 PM   #34
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GCWR is listed in the owners manual for my Chevy Trailblazer.
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Old 04-03-2013, 04:37 PM   #35
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Ya the gawr are usually never close but the gvwr isi get what your saying. I have a 2013 tundra my gvwr is 7200 pounds with my toy hauler hooked up I am at almost 7100 pounds but I am still about 500 pounds below the rawr and no where near the fawr. I am sure by the time I am fully loaded I will be right at gvwr and continue to be well under rawr.
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Old 04-03-2013, 04:45 PM   #36
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As a cop and someone who bought his first TT last spring I never gave two thoughts to tow capacity or anything like that. I always figured GVW and such was for the cops that work DOT type assignments full time. After I started reading this forum I woke up to the whole weight issue.

I live and patrol a 20 mile section of main hi-way that leads straight to one of the biggest resort areas on the east coast. So all last summer I would check out every RV rig I saw (which in summer is one every 5th car or so) just to see what people are using and to look at the pretty rigs.

I saw a lot of overloaded TV's on the road. I'm not saying that I would do it, but you guys that are overloaded need to keep this in mind, If your stopped by the law and the patrol officer goes past his reason for stop and starts doing the math and comes to the conclusion that you are over weight by a pound he can shut you down and keep you there until a TV with the proper GVW rating is summoned to pull your TT to a safe spot off the roadway.

I can assure you that wont be cheap and I belive no matter what kind of roadside insurance you have they wont cover it because it's your fault. There are several guys I work with who have bought TT as of late and they are starting to wake up to the weight issue. I feel it is just a matter of time before the tickets start flying in my area.


Our problem is we hate to do it but I would put a TV that is way over weight up there with DWI / DUI as far as damage it could do if you couldn't stop that rig in a timely manner. And if you are in an accident I know I will be checking the math and if your over then it's going in the report and your insurance will get the report.

I'm not trying to frighten anyone It's just how it is.
I'm curious... What local or state statute are you citing for being over GVWR? I believe there may be axle weight restrictions that can be cited if exceeded but I don't know if they're related to the stickers on the TV
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Old 04-03-2013, 05:04 PM   #37
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I'm curious... What local or state statute are you citing for being over GVWR? I believe there may be axle weight restrictions that can be cited if exceeded but I don't know if they're related to the stickers on the TV
I have another question without taking a vehicle to a scale how are you (law enforcement) going to be able to prove that a vehicle is over weight not all law enforcement carries portable scales just because it looks like it is does not make it so....... there no requirement for a RV operator to carry a weight certificate................ My state trooper buddys have been told unless some is way off (speeding / reckless driving etc. ) to leave RVers alone state needs the tourist revenue................
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Old 04-03-2013, 05:11 PM   #38
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I'm curious... What local or state statute are you citing for being over GVWR? I believe there may be axle weight restrictions that can be cited if exceeded but I don't know if they're related to the stickers on the TV

In Maryland we have a statute for "operation of an unsafe vehicle" that is left up to the officers discretion. That would be one way and your county judge would make a judgment at trail time. I can tell you in my county as long as the officer was able to make a decent case based on his observations and math from the sticker on the door jamb the officer would most likely win the case. I cant say that for all judges but each county court is subject to how that judge see's the law.

I do know that I have seen DOT officers at accident scenes use the load numbers off the tires and such to look for an over weight trailer say. Also there is a whole section of the law book that just pertains to towing and such in Maryland. I don't have it with me right now (i'm off today) but I bet given a few mintues on an accident scene and I could come up with it.

I would most likely use the operation of an unsafe vehicle statute if I ever came across an accident where an over weight issue were at hand. Also you could charge with negligent driving which is kind of a catch all that covers "unsafe operation" of vehicles, and by someone driving in what the manufacture assigns as an over weight condition then you would meet that part of the law also.

In summary the "operation of an unsafe vehicle" charge would cover the registered weight of the vehicle part and the negligent charge would cover the part of a driver acutally towing the vehicle in what the sate has deemed unsafe. In Maryland they print your tow weights on your registration card so once you exceed that weight your toast.
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Old 04-03-2013, 05:12 PM   #39
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This thread right here should be stuck to the top of this towing section.


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Old 04-03-2013, 05:12 PM   #40
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I'm not in law enforcement but, I think they would call for the portable scales.
They have these in many states.
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