Towing Rockwood Ultra Lite 2304S

Feralhog · 10-23-2010, 07:42 AM

I am not inexperienced towing travel trailers as this would be our third. The others were heavier and I had a heavier truck(s).

We are looking into buying a 2304S. I own a 2010 Dodge Ram Crew Cab 1500, 5.7L, 3.55 rear, 20" tires with Tow Package minus a brake controller (which will be added)...

From the FR web site:

Dry Hitch Weight 703 lb. (319 kg )
Unloaded Vehicle Weight 4,467 lb. (2,026 kg )
GVWR 6,639 lb. (3,011 kg )
Cargo Carrying Capacity 1,833 lb. (831 kg )
Exterior Length 23 ft. 4 in. (7.1 m)
Exterior Height 9 ft. 4 in. (2.8 m)
Exterior Width 96 in. (2.4 m)
Fresh Water Capacity 37 gal. (140 L)
Gray Water Capacity 38 gal. (144 L)
Black Water Capacity 38 gal. (144 L)

From the Dodge site:

Tires: P275/60R20
GVWR=6800 lbs
Payload=1380 lbs
Base Weight=5393 lbs; Front 3095, Rear 2298
GAWR Front=3900 lbs
GAWR Rear=3900 lbs
GCWR=14000 lbs
"Max Trailer" (per Dodge)=8400 lbs
"Round Bar" WDH with 801-1000lb bars, Friction Sway Bar
Class IV hitch
Brake Controller TBA

The simple question is can we tow this trailer legally, safely, and with ease? I know mpg will be low but that's towing.

I've tried plugging the various numbers into one of those "towing" calculators but I'm not sure I'm entering the correct numbers in the correct slots. One number that is missing from the Dodge site is "max hitch weight". Dodge rear ends tend to be soft. This trailer has the highest tongue weight of the three I've considered.

Basically, I'm another soul lost in the numbers game. I do know better than to listen to the dealer(s).

RhoZeta · 10-23-2010, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feralhog

I am not inexperienced towing travel trailers as this would be our third. The others were heavier and I had a heavier truck(s).

We are looking into buying a 2304S. I own a 2010 Dodge Ram Crew Cab 1500, 5.7L, 3.55 rear, 20" tires with Tow Package minus a brake controller (which will be added)...

From the FR web site:

Dry Hitch Weight 703 lb. (319 kg )
Unloaded Vehicle Weight 4,467 lb. (2,026 kg )
GVWR 6,639 lb. (3,011 kg )
Cargo Carrying Capacity 1,833 lb. (831 kg )
Exterior Length 23 ft. 4 in. (7.1 m)
Exterior Height 9 ft. 4 in. (2.8 m)
Exterior Width 96 in. (2.4 m)
Fresh Water Capacity 37 gal. (140 L)
Gray Water Capacity 38 gal. (144 L)
Black Water Capacity 38 gal. (144 L)

From the Dodge site:

Tires: P275/60R20
GVWR=6800 lbs
Payload=1380 lbs
Base Weight=5393 lbs; Front 3095, Rear 2298
GAWR Front=3900 lbs
GAWR Rear=3900 lbs
GCWR=14000 lbs
"Max Trailer" (per Dodge)=8400 lbs
"Round Bar" WDH with 801-1000lb bars, Friction Sway Bar
Class IV hitch
Brake Controller TBA

The simple question is can we tow this trailer legally, safely, and with ease? I know mpg will be low but that's towing.

I've tried plugging the various numbers into one of those "towing" calculators but I'm not sure I'm entering the correct numbers in the correct slots. One number that is missing from the Dodge site is "max hitch weight". Dodge rear ends tend to be soft. This trailer has the highest tongue weight of the three I've considered.

Basically, I'm another soul lost in the numbers game. I do know better than to listen to the dealer(s).

Remember, you actually want to go to a scale and figure all the weights out for sure!

That truck has a 140" WB which will be fine for a 23' TT, especially when used with a friction type sway bar and the Dodge built in sway control, sway should not be an issue at all.

Weight-wise, The truck's base weight is listed at 5400#, have you actually ran it across a scale to see what the real base with added options is?
I would SWAG it is more like 5600#.
Now, with the GVWR of the truck being 6800#, that means that you, the other PAX in the truck, all your gear, gas, firewood, bikes, pooches, chainsaws, cans of pork-n-beans, smores kits, cases of malted barley pops, AND the tongue weight of the trailer SHOULD not go past 6800# GVWR, of which there SHOULD be < 3900# on the rear axle.(which is your 1400# payload)

I am sure it could be done, as long as you can keep the tongue weight right at 10% of the trailer, which as long as you load carefully you should be able to roll to the CG at around 5500# ( I am figuring ACTUAL UVW of trailer to be around 4900# then you adding 600# of stuff.

So with a tongue load of 550#, people and their things and payload in the truck around 800# you will be right up against your GVWR of 6800#. And while you are still 2000# shy of your max trailer weight, you are sneaking up on your GCWR of 14000#
(Ex, TT= 5500# + Truck at 6600# = 12100# GCW.

You are close but still under all your prime weight targets, and with the trailer only being 23' in length AND it is only 9' in height (smaller frontal area) I would feel confident in this rig.

REMEMBER! This is only me taking a USWAG on it, go to a scale and confirm!!

Stay tuned, I am sure there will be many others along to offer their sage advice as well.
Their may also be a few members of the weight police along to tell you that to pull that trailer you will need a twin screw 225"WB Kenworth sleeper cab with a detroit 8-71.....

Feralhog · 10-24-2010, 07:02 AM

But I just sold the twin screw!

Maybe I better go back and look at the Fun Finder trailer with the 410lb dry tongue weight. I just noticed the cargo weight on the door jamb is 1271 NOT 1380 as shown on the Dodge site.

I had a 2005 Ford F-250 V10 I wish I never traded......

08flagvlite · 10-24-2010, 10:49 AM

Hi feralhog. If you take a look at what I'm pulling, I think you'll be fine; however I do recommend 2 things, mostly due to the tongue weight you stated. One, definitely install a weight distributing hitch. It'll make your pulling MUCH safer and better, not to mention leveling out that tail weight on the truck. Also, the soft 1500 rear suspension-I installed Hellwig leaf spring helpers- not sure if yours has leaf or coil springs, however. And I installed LT tires. That one made a WORLD of difference in the side-to-side sway. You can see what I mean if you'll stand at the rear of your truck, and facing the other side grab the last stake pocket hole, and shake the rear side to side then watch the tire sidewalls flex! LT tires have an 8 to 10 ply sidewall that greatly reduce this, and makes towing feel a whole lot better. By the way, mine has 265 70 17's, and I really need a 3:92 rear. Mine is 3:54, as well. I would NOT try pulling in the mountains. We live in Fla., and I'll pull in Ga and Fla. only. Oh, and I get 7 to 8 mpg at best at 60/65 mph. And I do have the MDS Hemi, Flowmaster duals, and a K&N intake. Also Bilstein shocks. Good luck, don't worry, try it as is if you want, but I think you'll see very quickly that you need a Reese dual cam or equalizer hitch. Those friction sway controllers work good on pop ups, but that is about it. Good luck, Randy

MtnGuy · 10-24-2010, 11:36 AM

Feralhog, your 1500 Ram should be a great tow vehicle. With the Crew Cab, the wheelbase is probably around 145".....plenty for a 23 foot trailer. The 3.55s and 20 inch tires might hold you back a little, but you can make that 5.7L engine work for a living.

Just like my F150, the payload will be the inhibiting factor with your towing. Just leave your gold bullion at home, and you should be fine.

bobsquarepants · 10-24-2010, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mtnguy

Feralhog, your 1500 Ram should be a great tow vehicle. With the Crew Cab, the wheelbase is probably around 145".....plenty for a 23 foot trailer. The 3.55s and 20 inch tires might hold you back a little, but you can make that 5.7L engine work for a living.

I had almost the simular setup, 2006 Ram 1500, and a 21' rear slide with close to the same weight specs. The truck did ok on the flat, but into a good wind or in the mountains was a different story.

I also thought it was due to the way the truck was geared as it had the 3.55's (i had the 17" wheels). I took my time, slowed down and it was liveable...far from a white knuckle drive. Gas mileage was typically 8-11mpg.

I think the new hemi's have a bit more power than the 06 that I had.

BigRed · 10-24-2010, 01:12 PM

You should be fine. I have a 2010 Ford F-150 w/trailer tow package. and std gears, I believe 3.55. I pull a Rockwood Winddjammer 3065 - (34' long). Ive pulled it now down to Flordia and also the infamous I-77, Fancy Gap. No white knuckles, no problem with sway , speed was 55 to 63 MPH. Be smart take your time driving to your destination. Could I do better w/LT tires,yes will up-grade when these need replacing. Spring helper..yes. dont have the money, will do later date. Dose the engine work hard sometimes....yes, but it is a 5.4 V-8, its not hurting it. I have trans cooler and all temps never got out of std range !! So my thoughts just use your head driving and have fun !!

RhoZeta · 10-24-2010, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feralhog

But I just sold the twin screw!

Maybe I better go back and look at the Fun Finder trailer with the 410lb dry tongue weight. I just noticed the cargo weight on the door jamb is 1271 NOT 1380 as shown on the Dodge site.

I had a 2005 Ford F-250 V10 I wish I never traded......

That 1271 number is obtained by subtracting the actual empty weight of truck as equipped from the GVWR. So if the GVWR of your truck is 6800 and you subtract 1271 then that wiuld mean your empty weight is 5529.

As for that fun finder, or any other camper for that matter dry tongue weight is a meaningless figure, how much the camper weighs will determine what the weight of the tongue is. You do need to keep 10% of total loaded trailer weight on the tongue. So if camper weighs 4500# then you should have 450# tongue weight. 10 to 15 % is the recommended amount. With your setup tho 10% should be no problem.

I did not even get into the power/performance side of it earlier because there is not much you can do other than regear that rear end. It is what it is, and as others have mentioned, unless you are thinking about crossing grants pass or dragging it up pikes peak I would not worry about it.

Dave_Monica · 10-24-2010, 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feralhog

I own a 2010 Dodge Ram Crew Cab 1500, 5.7L, 3.55 rear, 20" tires with Tow Package minus a brake controller (which will be added)...

Not sure when they changed...the tow package included 3.55 rear ratio with the std 17" wheels/tires but 3.92 ratio with the opt 20" wheels/tires. I believe that the RPM/MPH would be the same. A 3.55 ratio with 20's wouldn't be a great combo. Perhaps you can double check the truck's VIN at the dealership and confirm the rear end ratio.

Dave

4runner · 10-25-2010, 08:00 AM

I tow a 2011 2304s with my 2006 toyata tundra dc 4.7 v8 140" wheelbase.I tow in the northeast mostly in the moutains of nh,vt,ny.My truck does a good job works a little in the moutains but i would'nt hesitate to tow cross country.I get 8 to 11 mpg, i also have 4.10 gears and 4x4.Uvw sticker on my trailer 4731,23.8ft long 10.6 ft tall.

08flagvlite · 10-25-2010, 10:01 AM

4 runner, You stated yourself the answer- those 4:10 gears are the big difference here. And I agree with Dave above, the Ram with 20's automatically changed the rear end gears to 3:92, according to the option lists. Unless the rims were added later, or purchased as aftermarket. I can really tell my Ram would benefit tremendously towing with 3:92's, at least. Randy

Feralhog · 10-26-2010, 08:18 AM

Thanks. I can double check but I'm 95% certain my truck is 3.55. It was one of the items/trade-offs I made when I was playing the "this truck with these options or that truck with those options" game.....I didn't want a white one either but .....you pays your money and you takes your chances.

I have a weight distribution hitch with 801-1000lb bars that I used on the 29' trailer (now a seasonal camper). It will be used on whatever I buy.

It sounds to me almost like the published dry hitch weight is meaningless. If the trailer can be loaded to 7000lbs, then 15% of that is 1050lbs, NOT 710lbs, which I would surmise would exceed the limits of my truck unless we all weighed 50 lbs....?

Feralhog · 10-26-2010, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4runner

I tow a 2011 2304s with my 2006 toyata tundra dc 4.7 v8 140" wheelbase.I tow in the northeast mostly in the moutains of nh,vt,ny.My truck does a good job works a little in the moutains but i would'nt hesitate to tow cross country.I get 8 to 11 mpg, i also have 4.10 gears and 4x4.Uvw sticker on my trailer 4731,23.8ft long 10.6 ft tall.

Looks like almost the same camper. What I can't figure out is why the 23' Rockwood I looked at has a 710lbs tongue weight and a 2501SS, same basic configuration but 4 feet longer and tongue weight is 200lbs less. Makes no sense to me unless it's due to the length/location of the axles.

08flagvlite · 10-26-2010, 10:32 AM

Many contributing factors can go into this equation; for instance, a slide out weighs more than a non slide model, possibly towards the front; where the kitchen is located matters as well, extra weight from the appliances add up quick. Brand of camper, frame construction materials, all can contribute to this situation. The rear end gearing is the biggest factor between your TV and his. Randy

Feralhog · 10-26-2010, 01:05 PM

To be clear I wasn't referring to the previous poster's camper in my whine about tongue weight. I was referring to the Rockwood 2304S I am interested in buying that has a 710lb dry tongue weight:

with a larger Rockwood 2501SS with a 505lb dry tongue weight:

MtnGuy · 10-26-2010, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 08flagvlite

Many contributing factors can go into this equation; for instance, a slide out weighs more than a non slide model, possibly towards the front; where the kitchen is located matters as well, extra weight from the appliances add up quick. Brand of camper, frame construction materials, all can contribute to this situation. Randy

I believe Randy hits the nail on the head concerning tongue weights. I betcha the people designing these trailers have no idea about the tongue weight until the 1st prototype is built. By then, is is too late to change the wheel placement.

A heavy tongue weight is good to prevent sway problems, but bad if someone is reproaching the maximum hitch weight or the GVWR of their tow vehicle. And depending on placement of tanks, propane, and food and supply storage, those figures can grow. I am reluctant to put an extra battery on my camper because of the heavy tongue.

Feralhog · 10-26-2010, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4runner

I tow a 2011 2304s with my 2006 toyata tundra dc 4.7 v8 140" wheelbase.I tow in the northeast mostly in the moutains of nh,vt,ny.My truck does a good job works a little in the moutains but i would'nt hesitate to tow cross country.I get 8 to 11 mpg, i also have 4.10 gears and 4x4.Uvw sticker on my trailer 4731,23.8ft long 10.6 ft tall.

Duh....I just noticed it IS THE EXACT same trailer......well that gives me some hope 4.10s or not!

Dave_Monica · 10-26-2010, 04:22 PM

You should also bear in mind, that the camper's layout has a huge bearing on the hitch weight when loaded. Depending where the storage areas are, the tongue weight could grow sustantially ot not change at all.

As an example, our camper is a rear kitchen layout...and the weight added in the kitchen (food, dishes, water etc) offsets the weight added in the front storage. The pin weight is 15% of total unloaded or loaded.

Dave

RhoZeta · 10-26-2010, 05:38 PM

That 2304S has a HUGE deep slide, very cool U dinette! I can see on the 2501SS that the slide is much wider which means that slide is a lot heavier than the one in the 2304S, more weight aft as well which lightens up the tongue. Plus the length add on the 2501 moves more weight aft as well.

Remember, just keep that 10% on the tongue, you should be able to roll that thing at less than 6000#, tongue weight around 550#~600#.
Unless there is a huge difference in price I would get the 2501....

Feralhog · 10-26-2010, 06:51 PM

Well, we wanted a smaller camper for those buzz around camping trips as we have a 29 footer we could yank out of the seasonal site (painful as it would be).....I was looking (i.e. drooling) at the 2501 and someone who shall remain nameless (who has lived here for 30 years) suggested I'd rather have the small one.....ahem.......we shall see.

I did see a "tongue weight scale" online. I'm wondering if it is worth the trouble? Something like $135.00 but if it saves me from a $20,000 mistake might be worth it. I just don't know how the thing works (i.e. how the heck do you use it at an RV dealer)?

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