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Old 05-10-2013, 12:58 PM   #21
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In my hunt for a trailer, it seemed that the dealers would show you the number that is within your limits. You need to do your do diligence to figure out the rest. Payload will be the first thing you run out of in a half-ton.
Not really...dealers lie. "sure your gtruck can tow 11000 lbs" and then you actually learn what that 11k means - no cargo, 150lb driver, no passengers, all the right options. It's a very optimistic figure. Then they go with the book weight on teh TT which is always below reality.

So they assume a low TT weight and a max TV rating...which gives you a 'credibility gap' to say the least!

They're concerned with moving units - whether you can tow it or not really isn't their concern. And car dealers aren't much better - if ANY truck can tow 20klbs most salesman think ALL trucks can two 20k lbs. Axle ratings, payload, CVWR, GCWR are gibberish to them and just get in the way of earning their commission.
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Old 05-10-2013, 01:05 PM   #22
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^^^ and that's why I wrote my "What can I tow?" page. Hoping to help a person or two...

I posted on another thread - I don't think all dealers and salepeople intentionally lie. My guess is that a large part of them don't know any better.
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Old 05-10-2013, 01:34 PM   #23
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So....

Find a new dealer.

If he is lying to you BEFORE the sale; Just think of what your are going to get AFTER the sale...

Bingo!!

I would also tell them that they have lied to you!
Better safe than sorry!
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Old 05-10-2013, 02:07 PM   #24
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I'm sure your FX4 is a pretty nice truck, but it's only a 1/2 ton.
Some other things that have not been discussed is - brakes, shocks, frame strength, engine/tranny fluid coolers... - it all adds up to capability.

Make deal on that Sabre, but beware of that dealer! - then go find a 3/4 ton.
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Old 05-10-2013, 02:08 PM   #25
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Interesting you posted this question. While on the way to pick up my 5th wheel I passed a guy towing a 5th wheel with a ford f150 eco boost. I thought it was way too much for his truck, but then again maybe he knew something I didn't.!
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Old 05-10-2013, 02:34 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by ependydad View Post
^^^ and that's why I wrote my "What can I tow?" page. Hoping to help a person or two...

I posted on another thread - I don't think all dealers and salepeople intentionally lie. My guess is that a large part of them don't know any better.
I don't know about that...when the folks have been in the biz for decades they should certainly know better!

My TT from FR said 'small suv towable'...technically, legally, that may be true - an empty trailer and empty tv. But in the real world? No way in hell is that feasible - and if its common knowledge, common sense here, they can't be THAT ignorant, can they?

I sold cars and worked in dealerships and there, yes, salespeople can indeed but that clueless. But RV dealers? I don't think so.
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Old 05-10-2013, 02:43 PM   #27
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Here is my read on "Why Salesmen" lie:

1) They get paid on commission.

2) They don't work at any one dealership very long. RV salesmen turnover is the highest of all dealerships except small used car lots. There WILL BE no repeat sales FOR THEM.

Corollarys:

1) The bigger and more elaborate the camper they sell you; the more they make.

2) They want to be helpful by getting you into "The one you really want" (see Corollary 1)

3) The more options they add, (see Corollary 1)

4) Selling one that is on the lot carries a higher commission; AND you get to see what you are buying - this is much easier to sell. (see Corollary 1)


Whether you can tow it or not is your problem. Selling you a smaller more appropriate camper will violate Corollary 1.

Same with Truck Salesmen.

They get their commission when you sign. They don't care a hoot whether you ever make the first payment.
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Old 05-10-2013, 02:53 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by FandRChambers View Post
Interesting you posted this question. While on the way to pick up my 5th wheel I passed a guy towing a 5th wheel with a ford f150 eco boost. I thought it was way too much for his truck, but then again maybe he knew something I didn't.!
Well, there is a lot of difference in power and where that power is made in the RPM range between a 5.4 and an Ecoboost. There are many 5ers that I would feel comfortable towing with an EB F150, but not one with a 2K pin weight. IMHO, the weight when towing a TT or 5er is not as much of an issue as the wind resistance; at least where engine power is concerned. I can haul a load of sakrete on a lowboy trailer that weighs 10K and it will pull MUCH easier than a 25' TT at 5K. I actually noticed very little difference in how hard it was to tow when going from a 4K to a 7K trailer. More sway, but the wind resistance at 65 was still the major factor in how hard my truck had to work. Most vehicles have frontal area considerations that we often fail to mention here on the forums. This is particularly important for those towing with anything less than a 1/2 ton truck. I know in the Ford lit I've seen, pretty much all SUVs, except maybe the Expedition(speaking of new, not older like Excursions), recommend NOT towing something with as much frontal area as a trailer has. Hard to read, but copied from the 2011 RV and Towing Guide:

Mustang 20 sq. ft. All Applications
Taurus/MKS 30 sq. ft. All Applications
Edge/MKX 30 sq. ft. All Applications
Escape/Escape Hybrid Base Vehicle Frontal Area (24 sq. ft.) 2.5L I4 Engine or 2.5L Hybrid
Mariner/Mariner Hybrid 30 sq. ft. 3.0L V6 Engine
Flex/MKT 25 sq. ft. Without Trailer Tow Package Class III
35 sq. ft. With Trailer Tow Package Class III
Explorer Base Vehicle Frontal Area (20 sq. ft.) Without Trailer Tow Package Class III
40 sq. ft. With Trailer Tow Package Class III
Ranger Base Vehicle Frontal Area 2.3L I4 Engine
50 sq. ft. 4.0L V6 Engine
E-Series 60 sq. ft. All Applications
F-150 Base Vehicle Frontal Area Without Trailer Tow Package
60 sq. ft. With Trailer Tow Package or Max Trailer Tow Package
Expedition/Navigator Base Vehicle Frontal Area (35 sq. ft.) 5.4L V8 Engine Without Heavy-Duty Trailer Tow Package
60 sq. ft. 5.4L V8 With Heavy-Duty Trailer Tow Package
F-250/F-350/F-450/F-550 Super Duty 60 sq. ft. All Applications


Of course, based upon this, not even an F-550 should be towing a 5er, so take it with a grain of salt, I guess.
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Old 05-10-2013, 03:16 PM   #29
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Yea I learned there is a lot to consider with tow vehicles. My first tow vehicle was a chevy escalade. Yea very nice vehicle, but not made for towing! The more I learned and the more I camped, I knew the escalade had to go.
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Old 05-10-2013, 03:37 PM   #30
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Did you look for the "1/2 ton towable" sticker? That'd make it all good. Maybe they could even add one for you?

I now know that stickers on door jambs don't necessarily mean a lot (except GVWR and axle ratings do). Our F250 is supposed to have a max. payload of 2800 lbs but after being to the scales, the actual available payload is 1800 lbs.

It sure pays to do your due diligence in case you back yourself into a corner from buying the wrong thing.
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