Towing weight - Page 5

dustman_stx · 05-13-2013, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by f1100turbo

So my shop f150 full of fuel with me in it weights 6456 lbs.

the ccc is 1733
The rated tire capacity is 2200 lbs per tire. Or 8800 lbs .
I'm over my tire rating in 611 lbs.
Which means if I load my "fiver" to lets say 1800 lbs hitch weight then my dw, kids and dogs jump in that eats up my 611 lbs in tire capacity.
In your mind dustman that's "ok" and "safe"

I'm not gonna hash all this out again. If you'd like to see the logic behind my position and a response about GVWR and CCC from someone with many years experience in the field look here:

http://www.forestriverforums.com/for...tml#post360245

TURBS · 05-13-2013, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dustman_stx

I'm not gonna hash all this out again. If you'd like to see the logic behind my position and a response about GVWR and CCC from someone with many years experience in the field look here:

http://www.forestriverforums.com/for...tml#post360245

Your not going to answer my question?

I have an f150 with a ccc of 1733 lbs.
My 5er has a pin weight of 1800 lbs.

Is it safe to haul it ?

Golflover · 05-13-2013, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by f1100turbo

Your not going to answer my question?

I have an f150 with a ccc of 1733 lbs.
My 5er has a pin weight of 1800 lbs.

Is it safe to haul it ?

As long as God is your co-pilot

BarryD0706 · 05-13-2013, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Golflover

OK thanks for the heads up. I am pretty sure on the 500 lbs as when we transferred everything I cut way back and had things in boxes on a scale when I put it back in. Even if dw adds stuff for the weekend it would only go up about 100 lbs max. So give that : My math was 7764 plus 600 would be 8364 lbs. At the 20% average would be 1672 for a pin weight before adding in me, her and the hounds. So given that number then I would be over by 200 lbs as the truck is rated at 1756 lbs for payload,.. correct?

BTW, I don't think you added in the weight of your 5er hitch, which is probably another 100 pounds.

dustman_stx · 05-13-2013, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by f1100turbo

Which makes a great point, did anyone one ask the op what his tire rating was that thought he would be able to tow this 5er?
As si would say "naaaaaoooo"

So given the info I posted with my info on the f150 less knowing about the tire rating in dustmans eyes I'm good to go.
Not

I didn't even respond to your vague hypothetical, so where do you get off saying I said anything about you being good to go????

TURBS · 05-13-2013, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dustman_stx

I didn't even respond to your vague hypothetical, so where do you get off saying I said anything about you being good to go????

The same camper as op has listed and my ford 150 . Not hypothetical.
Am I ok to tow it?

Might I add "safely"

TURBS · 05-13-2013, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BarryD0706

BTW, I don't think you added in the weight of your 5er hitch, which is probably another 100 pounds.

Ty ! Your right.

Golflover · 05-13-2013, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BarryD0706

BTW, I don't think you added in the weight of your 5er hitch, which is probably another 100 pounds.

Ouch.. probably more then that since it is the Reese Auto glide 1500.. Darn guess I'll have to go camping by myself and leave the wife and dogs at home sniff sniff

dustman_stx · 05-13-2013, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by f1100turbo

Your not going to answer my question?

I have an f150 with a ccc of 1733 lbs.
My 5er has a pin weight of 1800 lbs.

Is it safe to haul it ?

You weigh your rig and are 1 pound over GVWR. Is it safe to haul it?

Do you really wanna start throwing hypothetical questions out? I don't see it going anywhere. Especially vague ones like yours. How far are you going? What type of road conditions? How fast? Where did you find tires with such a low rating?

I wouldn't advocate starting with a trailer that exceeds your CCC before adding all the other stuff we haul and therefore significantly exceeding CCC. And I don't advocate exceeding tire capacity(which is outside of what the original discussion even entailed) when it is very easy to change them and have a significant safety margin.

**ependydad** · 05-13-2013, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Golflover

Ouch.. probably more then that since it is the Reese Auto glide 1500.. Darn guess I'll have to go camping by myself and leave the wife and dogs at home sniff sniff

You'd be amazed at how the weight adds up. With my family, I, hitch, our stuff, truck enhancement, and very few things in the truck bed - we used up 1,200 pounds of our payload capacity in the truck. I knew I was chunky, but dang was I shocked when I got scaled weights and saw it on paper.

The next thing is, our camper has an advertised "dry weight" of 11,800 pounds. As delivered, it had a yellow sticker weight of 12,300 pounds. Ready for camp, it was 13,800 (we were running a bit light, though-- more like 14,000 for a normal trip/load for me). So, at least 2,000 pounds higher than advertised.

It's all been quite the learning experience. I think everyone should visit the scales to find out where they're at. Even if it doesn't change what you're doing, the education is insightful.

On edit: here's my 4-part blog series on getting weighed:
Getting Weighed - Adventure at CAT Scales

dustman_stx · 05-13-2013, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by f1100turbo

The same camper as op has listed and my ford 150 . Not hypothetical.
Am I ok to tow it?

Might I add "safely"

If you go read page 2 again, you'll see that I specifically advised against hauling that camper with a 1/2 ton truck. You'll also see my reference to not looking at GVWR as a brick wall. But, as I stated, he will be significantly overloaded.

TURBS · 05-13-2013, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dustman_stx

A Honda minivan is rated to carry over 1300 pounds. Think about that and see if you come to the conclusion that your truck rating is EXTREMELY conservative.

My resposnses have been based on this post right here.

dustman_stx · 05-13-2013, 01:59 PM

I do believe that the GVWR rating is conservative. You can see a lot of debate and reasoning for my position in the link I gave. Doesn't mean I advocate severely overloading a truck, especially in certain circumstances. I just don't see GVWR as a brick wall where that is the exact line between safe and unsafe for any and all circumstances. I think sometimes that line is below and sometimes it is above the rating depending upon a myriad of variables we might encounter when driving.

**ependydad** · 05-13-2013, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ependydad

You'd be amazed at how the weight adds up. With my family, I, hitch, our stuff, truck enhancement, and very few things in the truck bed - we used up 1,200 pounds of our payload capacity in the truck. I knew I was chunky, but dang was I shocked when I got scaled weights and saw it on paper.

The next thing is, our camper has an advertised "dry weight" of 11,800 pounds. As delivered, it had a yellow sticker weight of 12,300 pounds. Ready for camp, it was 13,800 (we were running a bit light, though-- more like 14,000 for a normal trip/load for me). So, at least 2,000 pounds higher than advertised.

It's all been quite the learning experience. I think everyone should visit the scales to find out where they're at. Even if it doesn't change what you're doing, the education is insightful.

On edit: here's my 4-part blog series on getting weighed:
Getting Weighed - Adventure at CAT Scales

And another thing, for you Golflovebug - the advertised hitch weight on my fifth wheel was 1,800 pounds. As of my weighing, mine was 2,300 pounds.

Those specs are something.

TURBS · 05-13-2013, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ependydad

And another thing, for you Golflovebug - the advertised hitch weight on my fifth wheel was 1,800 pounds. As of my weighing, mine was 2,300 pounds.

Those specs are something.

Was this when you left the dealer with absolutely nothing in the camper?

**ependydad** · 05-13-2013, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by f1100turbo

Was this when you left the dealer with absolutely nothing in the camper?

No, these were "wet" weights -- our stuff was in the camper. I was actually quite a hypocrite for a long time - advocating getting weighed, but never actually doing it until this year. (hangs head in shame)

This was for our first trip out this year, back at the beginning of April. Our camper gains weight in random crap as the year goes on (I purge at the end of the season). As well, I was completely out of propane and we also hadn't gone grocery shopping (we usually carry 7.5 gallons of water and another 2 cases of water).

All of my weights were low for what I normally carry.

**ependydad** · 05-13-2013, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ependydad

Those specs were something.

Quote:

Originally Posted by f1100turbo

Was this when you left the dealer with absolutely nothing in the camper?

What I meant - the dry weights are so low compared to what your camper will actually come in at once you're ready for camping. NOT that they were falsely advertised or anything.

Golflover · 05-13-2013, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ependydad

You'd be amazed at how the weight adds up. With my family, I, hitch, our stuff, truck enhancement, and very few things in the truck bed - we used up 1,200 pounds of our payload capacity in the truck. I knew I was chunky, but dang was I shocked when I got scaled weights and saw it on paper.

The next thing is, our camper has an advertised "dry weight" of 11,800 pounds. As delivered, it had a yellow sticker weight of 12,300 pounds. Ready for camp, it was 13,800 (we were running a bit light, though-- more like 14,000 for a normal trip/load for me). So, at least 2,000 pounds higher than advertised.

It's all been quite the learning experience. I think everyone should visit the scales to find out where they're at. Even if it doesn't change what you're doing, the education is insightful.

On edit: here's my 4-part blog series on getting weighed:
Getting Weighed - Adventure at CAT Scales

Great Blog.... I'll have to follow that procedure when I get to the scales.. but for now can you tell my DW she HAS to stay home

TURBS · 05-13-2013, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ependydad

What I meant - the dry weights are so low compared to what your camper will actually come in at once you're ready for camping. NOT that they were falsely advertised or anything.

Hitch weight and pin weights are to my knowledge "accurate" leaving the factory.
It's not hard to figure they'll only grow as items are added ahead of the axle.
But it's surprising how fast the grow!

myredracer · 05-13-2013, 02:17 PM

The weight issue will never die and there are folks on both sides of the fence. I hope there are more on the side of common sense and caution. My comments are general and not aimed at any particular post.

I did read a thread on another forum yesterday which I thought was interesting. See post #10: 2500/F250 Diesel weight distribution - iRV2 Forums

GVWRs, max. payloads, towing capacities and axle ratings can be confusing and misleading. And it does seem that vehicle manufacturers aren't exactly above board with some of their figures and how they present them. For ex., our truck's sticker says the payload max. is 2,800 lbs but the CAT scale proves it is only 1,800 lbs. 1300 lbs payload in a minivan? Of course they'd have to up the payload otherwise how could you get 6 passengers in it legally? Problem is, neither the vehicle manufacturers or RV trailer manufacturers make an effort to educate the public on actual/realistic/truthful max. payloads and towing capacities. How many minivan buyers would buy one, load it up with 6 passengers and hook up a trailer with a UVW sticker of 3,500 lbs and think they are just fine. How many of them have WDH hitches explained to them? I bet it happens a lot. Same with SUVs. A current reality is with a high percentage of the population aging and nearing retirement (or now in it) many are getting in to RV-ing so the tow vehicle market is getting very big. So automakers are all tripping over each other trying to outwit, outplay and outlast the others.

DW and I are both "risk averse." As an engineer I have spent an entire career following a sworn oath to protect the health, safety and welfare of the public by following various regulations and standards. DW is senior at our worker's compensation board (goes by a different name here). There are many workers who have lost 1-4 limbs, had various serious injuries or had severe brain injuries and had their lives forever altered simply because they chose to ignore rules and regulations designed to protect them and they thought that the regulations were not important.

DW and I choose to head out camping knowing that we have done our due diligence and are within safety standards and limits. We know that we have done what we can and should do to protect each other, our family, friends and others on the road. I couldn't knowingly drive an overloaded TV or pull and overloaded trailer. I just could NOT do it under any circumstances.

Anyway, I am sure I will have upset some here but oh well, that's what forums are for. Happy camping otherwise!!

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