Towing with a Jeep Grand Cherokee V8

[jk70]

I posted the below in the Jeep Garage forum but since I was someone doing internet searches on towing with a Jeep Grand Cherokee prior to purchasing I believe this will help some people out.

For anyone who may find the information useful who may be looking at a similar setup. My trans temp does great; the other temps seem fine from other threads I have read but I don't know exactly.

- Tow Vehicle: 2012 Jeep Grand Cherokee V8 4x4 w/ Tow Package
- Travel Trailer: 2018 Flagstaff 23LB. Length: 23' 7". Approximate weight: 5,400 fully loaded*.
- Trans Temp: 149 was the highest I saw. Usually hovered in the 140's
- Oil Temps: 217
- Coolant Temps: 201
- Oil Pressure: 51 PSI

*I haven't officially weighed the travel trailer as I picked it up last Friday but I have the true (not from the brochure) dry weight listed on the camper of 4102 lbs. I added everything I had including WDH, propane, chairs, etc. and even a full tank of fresh water of 358 lbs even though it was empty. I have weighed the Jeep on it's own but still have to weigh the 2 together. I will update this once I do

[007matman]

That's an awful lot of trailer for that Jeep. Count on another 5-700 lbs of gear (at least) after you fill the propane tanks, add a battery and your gear.

Those temps would make me a little nervous as well. Especially since it's not real hot yet..

[jk70]

Originally Posted by 007matman

That's an awful lot of trailer for that Jeep. Count on another 5-700 lbs of gear (at least) after you fill the propane tanks, add a battery and your gear.

Those temps would make me a little nervous as well. Especially since it's not real hot yet..

As I listed, the weight includes all gear, wdh, propane filled, battery. I even included 358 lbs of water even though the tank was empty

As far as the temps go: From other threads I am finding most Jeep GC's are towing with those temps. In fact, when I am not towing I hit those temps. Not that I am 100% sure, but from others the temps are in line with what Jeep's are doing

[007matman]

I am surprised at those tranny temps. They're lower than expected (assuming you have the factory system there).

I just worry if running anything near it's max and I've had to replaced engines and/or trannys whenever I did it in the past. My Jeep GC (granted it was a 2002 and this was years ago) seemed to handle my camper at the time until it didn't.

It over-heated when pulling a 3500lb fully loaded pop-up (Jeep was rated for 5000lbs) in a strong headwind on a hot day. After that I started to hear a tick that got louder untill I realized it needed attention. Ended up being a cracked piston skirt that required an engine replacement.

Last year purchased a 2010 Escalade and a new camper and was told it "would handle it no problem" by the dealer.. "you have a 1000lbs of extra capacity easily there" only to have the tranny crap out after the first real tow and having it replaced. Recently, the engine started ticking sometimes so I retired it from towing completely. Hopefully we can make it work for a while yet.

Bought an '07 F-350 dually this year. Handles it no problem and it gets a lot better gas mileage when towing.

[Mountndream]

I believe that Jeeps are limited in surface area of trailer to 64 sq ft. the reasoning is that the trailer behind you acts as a parachute.

in addition, you haven't posted your payload or tongue weight, which is where you will most likely have issues. and before you check the chart i am posting, look at the sticker on your door to determine what your actual payload is with all the bells and whistles

https://m.jeep.com/en/towing_payload/2012/

[jk70]

Originally Posted by Mountndream

I believe that Jeeps are limited in surface area of trailer to 64 sq ft. the reasoning is that the trailer behind you acts as a parachute.

in addition, you haven't posted your payload or tongue weight, which is where you will most likely have issues. and before you check the chart i am posting, look at the sticker on your door to determine what your actual payload is with all the bells and whistles

https://m.jeep.com/en/towing_payload/2012/

Tongue weight I do not know yet. Will be doing the official weigh this weekend. With respect to payload: there has been some questioning whether Jeep is undercutting their payload numbers for some reason. If you go to a car lot and look at many different Jeep configurations they all say 1050 lbs payload. Many people over at Jeep Garage decided to weigh their vehicles to see what the payload is and they are getting many different answers (usually higher than 1050). Therefore, I decided to do the same. Family of 4, some gear, and a full tank of gas.

My Jeep GVWR is 6800 lbs. The weight with my family and gas is 5640 lbs. Therefore, I have 1,160 left over. Take away family and I have 1610 of payload.

The Jeep is rated for 7200 lb tow capacity and 720 lb tongue weight. Right now everything appears ok. It's the short wheel base that is the most concerning but it has driven fine so far

[MillMitch]

Originally Posted by jk70

I posted the below in the Jeep Garage forum but since I was someone doing internet searches on towing with a Jeep Grand Cherokee prior to purchasing I believe this will help some people out.

For anyone who may find the information useful who may be looking at a similar setup. My trans temp does great; the other temps seem fine from other threads I have read but I don't know exactly.

- Tow Vehicle: 2012 Jeep Grand Cherokee V8 4x4 w/ Tow Package
- Travel Trailer: 2018 Flagstaff 23LB. Length: 23' 7". Approximate weight: 5,400 fully loaded*.
- Trans Temp: 149 was the highest I saw. Usually hovered in the 140's
- Oil Temps: 217
- Coolant Temps: 201
- Oil Pressure: 51 PSI

*I haven't officially weighed the travel trailer as I picked it up last Friday but I have the true (not from the brochure) dry weight listed on the camper of 4102 lbs. I added everything I had including WDH, propane, chairs, etc. and even a full tank of fresh water of 358 lbs even though it was empty. I have weighed the Jeep on it's own but still have to weigh the 2 together. I will update this once I do

Thanks for the info on temps. I'm towing with a 2011 Durango, 5.7L and tow package - similar setup, but my TT is about 1000#'s heavier. I am going to hit the scales this spring and we'll compare notes. I don't see payload on my door sticker, but it lists GVW at 7100, front axle at 3200 and rear axle at 3900. Manual lists max tow at 7200 but with GCVW of 13100. And yes, the manual lists a trailer frontal area 64 and 720# tongue weight. One thing i will mention- the Durango has a mechanical rear self leveling system (can't be turned off as per WDH setup instructions). I called Fastaway and talked to a tech and he said they have had the best luck setting up those kinds of vehicles by bringing the front fender measurement back to or slightly under the unloaded measurement. TT is in storage, but i will be adjusting my WDH this spring as well.

[jk70]

Originally Posted by MillMitch

Thanks for the info on temps. I'm towing with a 2011 Durango, 5.7L and tow package - similar setup, but my TT is about 1000#'s heavier. I am going to hit the scales this spring and we'll compare notes. I don't see payload on my door sticker, but it lists GVW at 7100, front axle at 3200 and rear axle at 3900. Manual lists max tow at 7200 but with GCVW of 13100. And yes, the manual lists a trailer frontal area 64 and 720# tongue weight. One thing i will mention- the Durango has a mechanical rear self leveling system (can't be turned off as per WDH setup instructions). I called Fastaway and talked to a tech and he said they have had the best luck setting up those kinds of vehicles by bringing the front fender measurement back to or slightly under the unloaded measurement. TT is in storage, but i will be adjusting my WDH this spring as well.

Mitch: that payload sticker may be opposite the area where the other weight stickers are. My GVWR, GAWR, etc. are on the door, on the side but my payload stick is on the door jam (?) - part of the car, not the door.

Here is my actual weights of just the vehicle with my family of 4 and full tank of gas:

My vehicle as stated on car door stickers:
GVWR: 6800 lbs
GAWR front: 3200 lbs
GAWR rear: 3700 lbs

Weight of my vehicle at CAT scale. Had my family of 4 and a full tank of gas that I just filled at the same CAT scale gas station:

Gross Weight: 5640 lbs
GAWR front: 2980 lbs
GAWR rear: 2660 lbs

[MillMitch]

Thanks, I'll take another look for it. it's my wife's daily driver.

[chaching]

Am VERY interested in this thread since my local trailer dealer and towing "specialist" said that the 2018 Durango/Jeep 5.7 L HEMI is an "ideal" tow vehicle for their Airstream Classic 30RB !

Say what ?

Durango/Jeep MAX towing capacity : 7400 lbs
My weight : 190 lbs
Wife's Weight : 120 lbs
Cargo : 200 lbs
Airstream Classic 30RB Hitch Weight : 886lbs
Leaves : 6004 lbs MAX Towing Capacity

Airstream Classic 30RB Base Weight : 7788 lbs !
Airstream Classic 30RB Fully Loaded Max Weight (GVWR) : 10000 lbs

How can this be an "ideal" tow vehicle for this trailer ? I don't get it at all.

(...just wanted to add that we prefer not to have to get a pickup truck since that same tow vehicle would be our daily driver....but...)

[jk70]

Originally Posted by chaching

Am VERY interested in this thread since my local trailer dealer and towing "specialist" said that the 2018 Durango/Jeep 5.7 L HEMI is an "ideal" tow vehicle for their Airstream Classic 30RB !

Say what ?

Durango/Jeep MAX towing capacity : 7400 lbs
My weight : 190 lbs
Wife's Weight : 120 lbs
Cargo : 200 lbs
Airstream Classic 30RB Hitch Weight : 886lbs
Leaves : 6004 lbs MAX Towing Capacity

Airstream Classic 30RB Base Weight : 7788 lbs !
Airstream Classic 30RB Fully Loaded Max Weight (GVWR) : 10000 lbs

How can this be an "ideal" tow vehicle for this trailer ? I don't get it at all.

(...just wanted to add that we prefer not to have to get a pickup truck since that same tow vehicle would be our daily driver....but...)

Yikes: You'd be hurting trying to tow that thing.

[DieselDrax]

Originally Posted by 007matman

I am surprised at those tranny temps. They're lower than expected (assuming you have the factory system there).

I just worry if running anything near it's max and I've had to replaced engines and/or trannys whenever I did it in the past. My Jeep GC (granted it was a 2002 and this was years ago) seemed to handle my camper at the time until it didn't.

Vehicles have changed a lot the past 16 years and even the 10 years between 2002 and 2012. Just can't compare them, entirely different drivetrains and vehicles in general.

If a vehicle overheats then it's an indication of a problem. Some older vehicles did have insufficient cooling systems (Remember when there used to be standard and HD cooling options?), but vehicle cooling systems are or should be matched to the peak energy output of the engine. Modern engines run 200F or slightly higher for emissions/efficiency reasons, the OP's engine running at 201F isn't an indication that they will have a problem in hot weather because that temp is controlled by the thermostat. As someone that ran a 5.7L HEMI at track days (2011 Dodge Challenger) where lots of time was spent at WOT I never had a single coolant temp problem. Manufacturers have evolved and better understand the physics/dynamics of drivetrains. Automatics in trucks from Ford, GM, and Dodge used to be horrible pieces of crap. Not anymore. They're all quite stout and reliable. Sure, nothing is perfect and some people will have problems, but that's not an indication of systemic problems.

I guess I'm just saying have a little faith. Sounds like you've had a couple of unlucky vehicles and you're skeptical of pushing a vehicle even a little bit. Hopefully you'll have some positive experiences that will help you shed that feeling.

[thamel]

get an f450 and youll be set towing man.

[007matman]

Originally Posted by DieselDrax

Vehicles have changed a lot the past 16 years and even the 10 years between 2002 and 2012. Just can't compare them, entirely different drivetrains and vehicles in general.

If a vehicle overheats then it's an indication of a problem. Some older vehicles did have insufficient cooling systems (Remember when there used to be standard and HD cooling options?), but vehicle cooling systems are or should be matched to the peak energy output of the engine. Modern engines run 200F or slightly higher for emissions/efficiency reasons, the OP's engine running at 201F isn't an indication that they will have a problem in hot weather because that temp is controlled by the thermostat. As someone that ran a 5.7L HEMI at track days (2011 Dodge Challenger) where lots of time was spent at WOT I never had a single coolant temp problem. Manufacturers have evolved and better understand the physics/dynamics of drivetrains. Automatics in trucks from Ford, GM, and Dodge used to be horrible pieces of crap. Not anymore. They're all quite stout and reliable. Sure, nothing is perfect and some people will have problems, but that's not an indication of systematic problems.

I guess I'm just saying have a little faith. Sounds like you've had a couple of unlucky vehicles and you're skeptical of pushing a vehicle even a little bit. Hopefully you'll have some positive experiences that will help you shed that feeling.

I'm not comparing them. I realize that they're very different vehicles.

I'll believe it when I see it. I'm a little bit of a gear head and have heard the PR for years so I'm pretty skeptical.

You can push any vehicle to it's limits when it's new and it'll probably perform well. It when they get a bit older that the problems will likely rise. For some folks they don't care and will just trade them off. I'm not wired that way and my wallet isn't either being a single income family with a wife and 4 kids to support. Those repairs have been brutal but it is still a lot cheaper than buying a new one (especially since they're paid off).

Good luck. Hope it all works out for you guys. I'll leave you alone.

[twojump36]

I pulled my single axle boat last summer up to the lake with my V-8 Cherokee and had my hands full... it's a light 17 foot fiberglass boat with a V-6...
One and done there.... I've pulled trailers all my life and that was the second scariest pull I ever made...

[jk70]

Originally Posted by 007matman

I'm not comparing them. I realize that they're very different vehicles.

I'll believe it when I see it. I'm a little bit of a gear head and have heard the PR for years so I'm pretty skeptical.

You can push any vehicle to it's limits when it's new and it'll probably perform well. It when they get a bit older that the problems will likely rise. For some folks they don't care and will just trade them off. I'm not wired that way and my wallet isn't either being a single income family with a wife and 4 kids to support. Those repairs have been brutal but it is still a lot cheaper than buying a new one (especially since they're paid off).

Good luck. Hope it all works out for you guys. I'll leave you alone.

007: I appreciate your input. I need folks to question things at time to keep me in line.

[DieselDrax]

Originally Posted by 007matman

I'm not comparing them. I realize that they're very different vehicles.

I'll believe it when I see it. I'm a little bit of a gear head and have heard the PR for years so I'm pretty skeptical.

You can push any vehicle to it's limits when it's new and it'll probably perform well. It when they get a bit older that the problems will likely rise. For some folks they don't care and will just trade them off. I'm not wired that way and my wallet isn't either being a single income family with a wife and 4 kids to support. Those repairs have been brutal but it is still a lot cheaper than buying a new one (especially since they're paid off).

Good luck. Hope it all works out for you guys. I'll leave you alone.

I don't know what your maintenance habits are so this isn't directed at you. I know a lot of people do the minimum maintenance (oil/filter changes, nothing else) and think the rest is a waste of money. Preventative maintenance not only helps prevent issues but also helps identify the start of problems before they become major issues.

If coolant isn't checked/replaced at the correct intervals then it will start eating away at things like the radiator, water pump impeller (if metal, which will reduce flow and lead to overheating), etc. You'll end up with scale inside the radiator that blocks flow and will lead to overheating. If you don't check/replace radiator hoses then they will become soft and can collapse at high RPM, blocking coolant flow and leading to overheating.

Point is, engines don't overheat just because they are "old." They overheat because there is an issue that wasn't found in time. If people stayed on top of the maintenance then the chances of major issues could be greatly reduced.

Of course, there is no preventing something like a head gasket failure that happens as a result of repeated heat cycling over the years that ends up damaging the gasket or other similar issues that can and do happen due to age, but many issues can be avoided if proper maintenance is done.

We towed our previous pop-up toy hauler (3,500-4,000lb) with my daughter's '06 Grand Cherokee 4.7L V8 last year without any issues. Jeep has over 130,000 miles on it but has had all maintenance performed to ensure no issues.

Sometimes things just fail. Sometimes people abuse their vehicles by not doing the required maintenance and regular inspections and then try and blame the vehicle when problems happen.

Like I said, I don't know what category other people fall into but either I have good luck or doing all the regular maintenance when needed has helped ensure my vehicles don't break down or leave me stranded even when they have almost 200,000 miles on them.

[thebrakeman]

Shocker!!
Someone posts good towing results with a mid-sized SUV.
Someone else with an F350 dually chimes in pooh-poohing the idea, and even casting doubt on clear data presented.
Shocking!!!

[007matman]

Originally Posted by DieselDrax

I don't know what your maintenance habits are so this isn't directed at you. I know a lot of people do the minimum maintenance (oil/filter changes, nothing else) and think the rest is a waste of money. Preventative maintenance not only helps prevent issues but also helps identify the start of problems before they become major issues.

If coolant isn't checked/replaced at the correct intervals then it will start eating away at things like the radiator, water pump impeller (if metal, which will reduce flow and lead to overheating), etc. You'll end up with scale inside the radiator that blocks flow and will lead to overheating. If you don't check/replace radiator hoses then they will become soft and can collapse at high RPM, blocking coolant flow and leading to overheating.

Point is, engines don't overheat just because they are "old." They overheat because there is an issue that wasn't found in time. If people stayed on top of the maintenance then the chances of major issues could be greatly reduced.

Of course, there is no preventing something like a head gasket failure that happens as a result of repeated heat cycling over the years that ends up damaging the gasket or other similar issues that can and do happen due to age, but many issues can be avoided if proper maintenance is done.

We towed our previous pop-up toy hauler (3,500-4,000lb) with my daughter's '06 Grand Cherokee 4.7L V8 last year without any issues. Jeep has over 130,000 miles on it but has had all maintenance performed to ensure no issues.

Sometimes things just fail. Sometimes people abuse their vehicles by not doing the required maintenance and regular inspections and then try and blame the vehicle when problems happen.

Like I said, I don't know what category other people fall into but either I have good luck or doing all the regular maintenance when needed has helped ensure my vehicles don't break down or leave me stranded even when they have almost 200,000 miles on them.

I'm pretty fanatical with maintenance. I mentioned the Jeep which had 80k on it when that happened. All the fluids had been changed at 50k (which was not required at that time but I did it anyway). All fluids were full and in spec with what Jeep recommended. It had also just been into a shop prior to leaving on that trip and the truck had a clean bill of health.

I think the problem was likely caused because of the weather. We had a 50mph head wind and temps were in the mid 90's. I was towing on the flat (southern Minnesota) for the most part.

My point was that while I wasn't over on weights or capabilities of the vehicle the rest of what was going on that day was likely outside of what was expected as normal driving conditions. I brought the Jeep to a dealer after all this occurred and they gave it a clean bill of health as well and just said it "must've been working real hard which is likely what must have cailused it". I drove the Jeep home with no issues at all and drove it for probably 6 months before I heard the ticking i described earlier.

I know what you're saying.. not everyone takes good care of their vehicles but I can ensure you that wasn't the case here. I'm still have the vehicle today and it runs great.

The Escalade had all fluids changed by the dealer right before I bought it (as a condition of the sale) at 82k (not due till 100k). It was maybe 10k after that when the tranny went and wouldn't stay in 5th. Thankfully, I had also worked in a power train 100k (additional) warranty and that was covered.

I'm simply saying I would not expect a vehicle that has been ran near it's max to last. I would think that a heavier duty vehicle ran at 70% ( or less) of it's max capacity would last a lot longer and be more reliable (as long as the maintenance was done). I think it's fairly common sense..

[DieselDrax]

Originally Posted by 007matman

I'm simply saying I would not expect a vehicle that has been ran near it's max to last. I would think that a heavier duty vehicle ran at 70% ( or less) of it's max capacity would last a lot longer and be more reliable (as long as the maintenance was done). I think it's fairly common sense..

Agreed, and that is why some vehicles have a frontal area limitation and not just weight. Weight is less of a problem than aero drag when trying to maintain speed on level ground and in general, that excessive drag would be similar to trying to constantly climb a grade with a heavy load. That's not what the vehicle was designed to do.

People should make sure they're within all limits of their vehicle, that includes frontal area limitations. They also need to listen to what their vehicle is telling them, if it wants to scream at higher RPMs when you're on flat ground because there's a strong headwind, slow down. Take some of that load off the vehicle, don't just put the pedal down and push through because you're in a hurry.

As you said, common sense.