Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-21-2019, 07:33 AM   #1
Member
 
North to Alaska's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 31
Towing with E30 or E85?

Who here has tried using E30 or E85 blended fuel while towing?
How much extra power do you gain? (Subjective answer to that I know).
Did your mileage take much of a hit?
I am wondering if it is like towing with a lower gear ratio. Lower gear ratio will give you poorer gas mileage in normal driving, but it may give you better gas mileage while towing.
Since E30 or E85 can give you better, low end torque, it MAY make up for btu deficits in towing applications?

Just curious.
Thanks

Edit: for those wondering what I am talking about, here is a good article explaining how E85 gives more power/torque to an engine. While he is talking about boosted street engines, this applies to most modern engines. (Cooling effect has a greater impact on GDI engines)
https://borowskirace.com/blogs/news/...street-engines
__________________

North to Alaska is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2019, 08:09 AM   #2
Failure is my business
 
2Evil4U's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Slaughter, LA
Posts: 554
I've measured about 3% less fuel economy between straight gas and E10. I'd expect in the range of 25% reduction on E85. If you've got the tank or fuel stops to get where you're going, send it.
__________________

__________________
Current vehicle list: 17 RAM 3500 4x4 Cummins Aisin 4.10, 16 Flagstaff 832IKBS, 14 RAM 1500 4x4 Hemi 3.92 Bilstein 5100's Derale oil cooler, 97 F150 4x4 5.4L 278,000 miles, 80 Firebird Esprit Aussie Burnout Car https://youtu.be/v06VjII7HmE, 78 Harley Davidson FX 79,000 miles dad bought new, 71 El Camino ZZ3 TH400 12-Bolt, 37 Ford 3 window 502 Chevy dad built
Days Camped: 2016: 43, 2017: 83, 2018: 44, 2019: 78
2Evil4U is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2019, 08:27 AM   #3
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Reno, NV
Posts: 919
Fuel mileage will drop. Power won't increase.
Do not use unless your engine is designed to use it...like FlexFuel..
__________________
2018 Ram 2500 Tradesman, CTD/CC/SB/4X4/Equalizer WDH
2019 Forest River Surveyor Legend 19BHLE
upflying is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2019, 08:31 AM   #4
Member
 
North to Alaska's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by upflying View Post
Fuel mileage will drop. Power won't increase.
Do not use unless your engine is designed to use it.
Have you tried it?
Power should actually increase.
I'm curious about the net fuel economy loss while pulling.
North to Alaska is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2019, 08:35 AM   #5
Member
 
North to Alaska's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Evil4U View Post
I've measured about 3% less fuel economy between straight gas and E10. I'd expect in the range of 25% reduction on E85. If you've got the tank or fuel stops to get where you're going, send it.
Thanks for the reply.
I know fuel economy will drop considerably under normal driving. I am curious about what happens when towing. There is more to ethanol properties than just the btu. There is the ability of the engine to significantly advance timing to produce more power amd thus need less fuel for the required torque while hauling.
North to Alaska is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2019, 09:01 AM   #6
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Reno, NV
Posts: 919
Quote:
Originally Posted by North to Alaska View Post
Have you tried it?
Power should actually increase.
I'm curious about the net fuel economy loss while pulling.
No, never used E85, never owned anything that can use it.
I base my opinion on the extensive information and misinformation about E85 on the internet.
__________________
2018 Ram 2500 Tradesman, CTD/CC/SB/4X4/Equalizer WDH
2019 Forest River Surveyor Legend 19BHLE
upflying is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2019, 10:30 AM   #7
Senior Member
 
Jim34RL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Oswego il
Posts: 1,814
Quote:
Originally Posted by North to Alaska View Post
Have you tried it?
Power should actually increase.
I'm curious about the net fuel economy loss while pulling.
Are you sure? Here is a chart that shows the energy content in commonly used fuels, compared to gasoline which is the baseline. So, if you think E85 has more energy content, show me the proof.

https://afdc.energy.gov/fuels/fuel_comparison_chart.pdf

This is why I use diesel it has the highest energy content when compared to gasoline.
__________________
Jim W.
2016 34RL CC; 2008 Ram Mega Cab 2500HD, 6.7L, 68RFE 6 speed, 4X4, Smarty S67, TDR 135K+miles
Jim34RL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2019, 10:37 AM   #8
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 4,582
I had substantial MPG loss on any of the Ethanol blends. E85 was horrible as I lost almost 5 MPG. Clean burning but you use twice as much.
TheWolfPaq82 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2019, 10:39 AM   #9
ARLO
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: N Chili, NY
Posts: 715
E85 sucks. I tried it in Nebraska and got the same result, 5 miles a gallon less.
rlocicero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2019, 10:43 AM   #10
ARLO
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: N Chili, NY
Posts: 715
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Evil4U View Post
I've measured about 3% less fuel economy between straight gas and E10. I'd expect in the range of 25% reduction on E85. If you've got the tank or fuel stops to get where you're going, send it.
I tried E 85 in Nebraska not towing and my mileage dropped from 22 miles a gallon down to between 16 and 17 miles a gallon. Nebraska is about as flat as you can get so it was a good test this was at 75 miles an hour with the cruise control so it was same conditions.
rlocicero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2019, 11:49 AM   #11
Member
 
North to Alaska's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 31
Yes, you will have mpg loss under normal driving conditions. I am asking about while towing heavy loads.
There is alot of info on the internet about ethanol, much of it ignorant.
There is substantial evidence and science behind higher ethanol blends providing significant power gains.
I am asking about towing.
__________________
2015 Transit t150 10 passenger
Future owner of a fill in the blank
25rs Roo or Shamrock?
233s Roo or Shamrock?
2185 Lance?
North to Alaska is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2019, 12:57 PM   #12
Member
 
North to Alaska's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 31
Here is a couple of artickes/test shiwing the increased torque from ethanol.
Seen forums elsewhere in which people use ethanol blends for more power.
The tining advance plus the cooling from vaporizing and extra oxygen provides more power.
North to Alaska is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2019, 12:58 PM   #13
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 73
E-85

Use to use e85 when I lived in Colorado and I got better mileage power was about the same nice thing it was a lot cheaper don't use it now no one sells it here in North Carolina
johnlochbuie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2019, 02:56 PM   #14
Senior Member
 
Bluepill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Pensacola, FL
Posts: 1,571
I don't doubt that with a well constructed Power Tune map loaded into the ECM that E-85 can deliver more power/torque.

That said, I doubt that OEM flex fuel programs are designed for any power increase, since that will drop MPG and the EPA is pushing for evermore higher MPG numbers.
__________________
2019 Coachmen Freedom Express 192RBS
2015 T12RBST Flagstaff Hardside

Disclaimer: The actual value of my "Two Cents" of advice varies just like a bitcoin.
Bluepill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2019, 03:02 PM   #15
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 266
Quote:
Originally Posted by North to Alaska View Post
Who here has tried using E30 or E85 blended fuel while towing?
I don't know where you're from, but you won't find any of that ethanol crap in Alaska. Not even E10. And I've never even heard of E30.
__________________
2019 Silverado LTZ 1500 6.2L 3.42 Max Trailering Package
2018 Freedom Express 192RBS
AlaskaErik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2019, 03:21 PM   #16
Senior Member
 
Mad Cow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 397
The MPG difference is not really relevant unless the price is equal. It all depends on price spread. One needs to look at cost per mile. One can get 5 MPG less on E85 and still be at a lower cost per mile.

Modern ECM controlled engines vary timing during operation. The significantly higher octane rating of E85 allows an engine to use most advanced timing in the ECM map for maximum engine performance. That does not mean more power, just maximum designed performance.

I have used E85 probably 75% of the time over the last 8 years. Right now the price spread is not good enough to justify E85. E20, E30, and E50, right on the edge.

Seems E85 has an edge at higher elevations, in my experience. MPG hit spread from regular does not seem as bad. I attribute that to higher oxygen content of E85, but no real data to back that up.
Mad Cow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2019, 03:41 PM   #17
Member
 
North to Alaska's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnlochbuie View Post
Use to use e85 when I lived in Colorado and I got better mileage power was about the same nice thing it was a lot cheaper don't use it now no one sells it here in North Carolina
Thank you,
Care to elaborate on the driving conditions? Towing? Altitude? Steep grades? Or just normal driving? Be a bit unusual for you to get similar mileage.
North to Alaska is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2019, 03:47 PM   #18
Member
 
North to Alaska's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluepill View Post
I don't doubt that with a well constructed Power Tune map loaded into the ECM that E-85 can deliver more power/torque.

That said, I doubt that OEM flex fuel programs are designed for any power increase, since that will drop MPG and the EPA is pushing for evermore higher MPG numbers.
Any flex fuel engine today tests for % ethanol.
It will adjust for it. The computer will advance timing considerably due to lack of knock which will increase torque.
The engines that get the biggest boost are turbo engines like the ecoboost.
North to Alaska is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2019, 04:21 PM   #19
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Wisconsin/Florida
Posts: 1,311
We have tried E85 a few times. The only thing we have gained is more frequent trips to the pump. If there is any performance difference, it would have to be proven on a dyno. There were a few times there was a 75 cent difference in price, otherwise, it is of not benefit. Definitely would not use it towing.
PenJoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2019, 05:32 PM   #20
Member
 
North to Alaska's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by PenJoe View Post
We have tried E85 a few times. The only thing we have gained is more frequent trips to the pump. If there is any performance difference, it would have to be proven on a dyno. There were a few times there was a 75 cent difference in price, otherwise, it is of not benefit. Definitely would not use it towing.
Please note my previous post with attached documents includes dyno tests.
Curious, were the times you used it while towing?
What year and vehicle?
Thanks
__________________

North to Alaska is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
towing

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Forest River, Inc. or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:54 PM.


×