Towing with Ram 1500

[JohnD10]

Originally Posted by NMWildcat

Or, are just tired of the weight police type comments that are usually skewed to whatever side of the discussion they are on

Isn't that usually when the words 'diesel' and 'dually' come into the mix?

[NMWildcat]

Originally Posted by JohnD10

Isn't that usually when the words 'diesel' and 'dually' come into the mix?

Or saying a semi tractor is required to pull a pop-up.....

[lamokadave]

Not sure what your limitations might be, but I'd highly recommend a f150 3.5 eco 2017 or later as a tow platform for 7k, or less 28 ft. Or less. Depending on what your looking for in a truck ie seating, bed length, etc, some 150s can be had with a 157" wheel base improving stability even more.
I live in AZ with many long 6% grades. The 3.5 eco with 10sp tranny pulls those with ease, and with tow haul manages downhill speeds within reason

[67L48]

Originally Posted by NMWildcat

[...] But at least dry weight gives you a place to start when looking at new RVs.

I believe you are more thoughtful and careful with your approach than the typical shopper. The two issues with your statement based on what I've read are:

1) Dry weight isn't the starting place where people begin the conversation. It's the ending point; it's the weight of the trailer. Most people just aren't savvy enough to know that the conversation needs to extend beyond that dry weight.

2) People use the dry weight when looking at new TVs, too. Paired with (1), it's a primary contributor leading to poor decisions. It's also why we get several posts each RV show season where dealers/manufacturers post the "hilarious" charts showing what various vehicles can supposedly tow.

I have no doubt that the dry weight is useful to you. You're an experienced guy with a tangible, working knowledge of how these things go together. You are the exception, not the rule.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one, which is OK. I will continue to believe that for those asking the questions, dry weight does more harm than good.

Good luck.

[JohnD10]

Originally Posted by 67L48

I believe you are more thoughtful and careful with your approach than the typical shopper. The two issues with your statement based on what I've read are:

1) Dry weight isn't the starting place where people begin the conversation. It's the ending point; it's the weight of the trailer. Most people just aren't savvy enough to know that the conversation needs to extend beyond that dry weight.

2) People use the dry weight when looking at new TVs, too. Paired with (1), it's a primary contributor leading to poor decisions. It's also why we get several posts each RV show season where dealers/manufacturers post the "hilarious" charts showing what various vehicles can supposedly tow.

I have no doubt that the dry weight is useful to you. You're an experienced guy with a tangible, working knowledge of how these things go together. You are the exception, not the rule.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one, which is OK. I will continue to believe that for those asking the questions, dry weight does more harm than good.

Good luck.

The other number that does more harm than good is the max tow weight!

Most that ask these questions think they can tow that much no matter what.

[frank4711]

Please explain how you shop for a trailer and not know the estimated dry weight from the manufacturer.... There seems to be a assumption that a shopper looking for a trailer does not know that actual weight (after you load it) is different from dry weight... and in my experience actual dry weight will not match and you will not know that # until the unit gets here and you read the sticker ... in my case the actual dry weight was 142 lbs lighter than estimated...then you put stuff on it and the weight changes WOW Really

[BigH]

Originally Posted by 67L48

... dry weight does more harm than good.

Good luck.

I understand what you're saying and I'm not in total disagreement but what's the solution?

We know 1/2 tons (and 3/4 ton diesels )are going to run out of payload first...so if the manufacturer used GVW how would they figure tongue weight? Just toss a percentage at it? Had I tossed the 12.5% number that gets issued here at it I would have been over...I'll explain.

I struggled with the tongue weight guessing on my trailer before I ever hooked up. On paper my trailer has a tongue weight of 926 and 6500 dry with a ccc of 3487. So a bag of chips less than 10,000lbs wet. The dealer wanted to sell me a wdh rated at 10,000lbs. That hitch has 1000lbs bars. Seems reasonable but I could tell by looking where all the loads would be situated in reference to the axles that it was going to have a higher tongue.

Fortunately, per the manual, my truck doesn't require a wdh right up to the maximum 2000lbs tongue weight...so I decided the first order of business was to buy a scale and see exactly what the tongue weighs. I have seen 950lbs to 1500lbs tongue weight and I haven't reached the 10,000 wet max.

I had a big bad F150 with a payload of 2300lbs and would have drove off the lot with this trailer and truck if the truck had not been lemon lawed. Even though I was a little green when I bought my trailer...I was not ignorant and in spite of my number crunch'n I would have pulled away thinking I was good to go with an under equipped hitch sold to me by the dealer and I would have had more tongue weight than even the half ton'ers holy grail F150 payload package could handle (receiver rating of 1320 max tongue) ...there would be some folks willing to argue any well rated half ton could handle this trailer going by the max GVW of the trailer...

I'm not of the opinion that one can't be at max load for a tow vehicle but there is something to be said about giving advice to newbies about staying safely (some given number that I don't know) below a half tons rating. And this is because even the wet numbers on paper cannot give an accurate tongue weight.

[67L48]

Originally Posted by BigH

I understand what you're saying and I'm not in total disagreement but what's the solution? [...]

There isn't a universal solution.

For most small to medium sized trailers, the best place to start is GVWR of the trailer, which is usually in the 6,500 - 8,000 lb range. It's often prudent to assume that these trailers will be close to that GVWR when rolling down the highway.

Of course, this starts to fall apart when the carrying capacities of the trailers extend into the multiple thousands of pounds (triple axle toy haulers, 40' 5ers, and so on). This is where Wildcat's advice comes into play: the dry weight can be a good starting place. So, Dry + 1,000 lbs (at least) is generally not a bad place to start. But, I find this awareness to be exceedingly rare. Like, white buffalo rare. Bigfoot sighting rare.

Most likely, the conversation is some variant of: "my TV can tow 7,000 lbs and my trailer of interest has a dry weight of 6,800 lbs ... so, I'm good to go, but do you think I'll need to [insert some much smaller item of consequence here]?"

But, unless the CCC is super high (as in your example), my prescribed solution is to ignore the dry weight and start with the GVWR ... knowing that this isn't a panacea for this problem.

Three issues:

1. As mentioned before, people don't start with the dry weight, they end with the dry weight. This leads to bad decisions.
2. People don't think about the weight added properly. For one, they underestimate the weight things they add. They also forget that many dealer (and even factory) installed items aren't reflected in the dry weight. Depending on brand and year, things like propane tanks, awnings, A/C units, and other components may not be included in that dry weight. So, it adds up really, really fast and people tend to underestimate.
3. They don't extend the math to the hitch weight. This is related to (1) above because it's again part of the problem of ending the conversation with these dry weights. I've seen too many people use the published hitch weight (that's based on the dry weight). Those people may appreciate that the trailer will weigh more, but then don't recalculate the new hitch weight.

In the end, I want people to be happy with their TV + RV combination.

[NMWildcat]

Originally Posted by 67L48

So, Dry + 1,000 lbs (at least) is generally not a bad place to start. But, I find this awareness to be exceedingly rare. Like, white buffalo rare. Bigfoot sighting rare.

And my experience with RVers is very different. Most Rvers I talk to are very cognizant of weights and capacities. Most have done their homework, even those new to the lifestyle.

I guess it boils down to how you view people.

[BigH]

Originally Posted by 67L48

There isn't a universal solution.

Correct but my question was rhetorical.... I quoted you because your first post on this thread was dismissive of dry weight. While max GVWR is useful to show one is within their vehicles tow rating is not going to give the correct tongue weight and leads us head on into the payload problem for half tons.

The super high tow ratings half tons boast are not realistic and because of this posts will continue to pop up, unfortunately, to further complicate things, it would be a very low % of dealers (if any) that would tell someone their half ton couldn't handle my trailer (for example)... The goal is being safe and what you said:

In the end, I want people to be happy with their TV + RV combination.

The answer is to post on these threads to give folks an understanding that are searching for a trailer. Those that have already purchased a trailer based on some dipstick at an rv sales lot...well, they need to know the truth. What they do with it is on them.

[JMark]

without getting into a discussion about listed/allowed weights etc I will say that I tow a 2016 Flagstaff 26fkws with a 2004 ram 1500 Laramie with 5,7 hemi with 8000# wd hitch and am very comfortable with it.....sure a bigger truck would be nice but one uses what you can justify.

[BigH]

Originally Posted by JMark

without getting into a discussion about listed/allowed weights etc I will say that I tow a 2016 Flagstaff 26fkws with a 2004 ram 1500 Laramie with 5,7 hemi with 8000# wd hitch and am very comfortable with it.....sure a bigger truck would be nice but one uses what you can justify.

What is your tongue weight? Or, if you'd rather, do you know what your tongue weight is?

Just curious where you fall according to NMWildcat's last post...

[Blackrock]

When I picked up my half ton towable 5th wheel in 2016 I stopped at the Gin scale on the way down and got front/rear and total weights on my 16' Ram 1500. Then coming back home I stopped in and weighed with the trailer hitched up, full propane and half tank of water. The trailer was advertised as 1250 pin weight, the truck has a 1780 payload. The weights came out as advertised.
So I got home and started loading up everything that had been in my 25DS plus everything we wanted to take to Alaska with us.

Went back down to the Gin and found out I needed to trim some weigh off so I unloaded a lot of tools and my wife trimmed off some clothing and bedding. Went for a re-weigh and it was a lot better but #400 over on the rear truck axle, trailer axles were good. So we went with it and made the trip to Alaska with no truck problems.

Downside was that my wife died in Fairbanks so that was 220# less on the way back.

[JMark]

Varies slightly but I try to keep it around 900#

[BigH]

Originally Posted by JMark

Varies slightly but I try to keep it around 900#

I was mostly just being a smart___. but good for you for knowing.

[JMark]

Gotch ya! have a great summer

[bikendan]

Originally Posted by NMWildcat

And my experience with RVers is very different. Most Rvers I talk to are very cognizant of weights and capacities. Most have done their homework, even those new to the lifestyle.

I guess it boils down to how you view people.

My experience has been opposite of yours. The majority of RVers I meet are clueless, in regards to towing weights.

[JohnD10]

Originally Posted by bikendan

My experience has been opposite of yours. The majority of RVers I meet are clueless, in regards to towing weights.

My experience as well...

[NMWildcat]

Well, I guess it's official. Everyone is clueless but y'all.

[Bikemobile]

I tow a 201bhxl 4233 lbs dry, 5187 lbs loaded with a 2017 GMC Sierra 1500 4x4 5.3 with 8peed trans. It is advertised as rated for 9100 pounds of towing. It tows very well but on really bad highways with heaves, dips, and repairs, it seems to bounce around alot and moves the truck around more than I like. I live at 7,700 feet elevation and must go over 11,300 feet to go east and over 8,800 feet to go west.

To be honest, if I bought any bigger trailer I would get a 3/4 ton. For safety, for stress relief and for longevity. The posts I see with 1/2 tons towing 8000 pounds scare me.

Ive never owned a 4th gen ram but I have two friends who do. One with a 2011 5.7 crew 5 speed that tows a 6000 pounds loaded landscaping trailer often without issue. His trailer’s weight is usually pretty well distributed.

The other has a 2017 crew 5.7 8 speed who tows a loaded car hauler all over. The car hauler is 6300 pounds loaded and he says his only issue is a tad more tongue weight than the truck can handle on the bigger bumps and undulations.

I think the issue here is that 1500’s are designed to ride nice and they do at the expense of a bit of payload capacity and weight control. I’m going to add sumosprings to my sierra to see if that helps.